John Piper

[Bro.Johnny Mac]

I did. All that shows is that people reject to his use of the phrase "Christian hedonism" but don't seem to know (or care) what he means by that phrase.

Like I said, if you have a source where Piper says something objectionable, then by all means, show it to me and I'll be glad to hear your concerns.

Until then, all I know about the man seems to be Biblically sound and I can only judge him based on what I know, not condemn him based on what I don't know or the rumors you guys are spreading about him.

Ok one shot at this because Im not sure if you know he(Piper) is a Calvanist or not.If you are,you are just baiting me to fight with you about Calvanism,which Im not going to do,since this is an IFB web site.The T.U.L.I.P. is not biblical.

Hers is a quote from Piper"We need to rethink our reformed doctrine of salvation so that every limb and every branch in the tree is coursing with the sap of Augustinian delight."
Augistine was the theological father to todays RCC ,just ask them they will tell you..he goes on to say.."We need to make plain that total depravity is not badness,but blindness..and that unconditional election means that the completeness of our joy in Jesus was planned for us before we ever existed

Ok so he believes that God has chosen some to go the hell before they were born and doesnt even offer them a chance to be saved why? because he believes this..the quote goes further..

"and limited atonement is the assurance that indestructible joy in God is infallibly secured for us."
He believes that Jesus only died for the elect and not the world,he believes that God before the world began choose certain people to have their sins atoned for and others to have no chance of ever being saved.Thus ruling out the bilble doctrine that man can choose. He goes on futher...

"by the blood of the covenant;and irresistable grace is the commitment and power of God's love".

Irressistable grace means that those whom God has chosen to be saved,they have no choice,they will automatically recieve Jesus as their Saviour,again leaving no choice.

He is a calvanist,and the TULIP is not biblical..

Oh ya,Im an Auburn fan also :thumb But Im not going to debate Calvanism with you on this board,I only posted these quotes for the IFB'ERS on this board who dont know anything about Piper,not to cange your mind.unless you were unaware of his unbiblical teachings.

[Bro.Johnny Mac]

Ok one shot at this because Im not sure if you know he(Piper) is a Calvanist or not.If you are,you are just baiting me to fight with you about Calvanism,which Im not going to do,since this is an IFB web site.The T.U.L.I.P. is not biblical.

Hers is a quote from Piper"We need to rethink our reformed doctrine of salvation so that every limb and every branch in the tree is coursing with the sap of Augustinian delight."
Augistine was the theological father to todays RCC ,just ask them they will tell you..he goes on to say.."We need to make plain that total depravity is not badness,but blindness..and that unconditional election means that the completeness of our joy in Jesus was planned for us before we ever existed

Ok so he believes that God has chosen some to go the hell before they were born and doesnt even offer them a chance to be saved why? because he believes this..the quote goes further..

"and limited atonement is the assurance that indestructible joy in God is infallibly secured for us."
He believes that Jesus only died for the elect and not the world,he believes that God before the world began choose certain people to have their sins atoned for and others to have no chance of ever being saved.Thus ruling out the bilble doctrine that man can choose. He goes on futher...

"by the blood of the covenant;and irresistable grace is the commitment and power of God's love".

Irressistable grace means that those whom God has chosen to be saved,they have no choice,they will automatically recieve Jesus as their Saviour,again leaving no choice.

He is a calvanist,and the TULIP is not biblical..

Oh ya,Im an Auburn fan also :thumb But Im not going to debate Calvanism with you on this board,I only posted these quotes for the IFB'ERS on this board who dont know anything about Piper,not to cange your mind.unless you were unaware of his unbiblical teachings.

*ABOVE QUOTES TAKEN FROM*
John Piper,The legacy of Sovereign Joy:God's Triumphant Grace in the Lives of Augustin,Luther and Calvin

[Jerry]

Thanks Bro. Johnny, I really don't know how someone can say someone is right on doctrinally, when their whole basis of looking at the Scriptures is on a wrong foundation!

[brother_mike]

Well, if you read the same article and found nothing wrong with it. I am sorry for you.

I don't think it comes anywhere close to that happiness is a by-product, it is that putting our happiness as the prime reason to do things FOR God.

What I do I do for God, not for MY happiness.

It sounds, to me anyway, the usual feel good theology (seeker sensitive). That mixed with his Calvinism, says it all.

[Bro.Johnny Mac]

Thanks Bro. Johnny' date=' I really don't know how someone can say someone is right on doctrinally, when their whole basis of looking at the Scriptures is on a wrong foundation![/quote']


:clap:

[anime4christ]

post deleted

[kevinmiller]

Even Calvinists have good things to offer.
Calvinists aren't all that different than us except for the fact that they think God chose them whereas we think that we chose God. :lol

[zealyouthguy]

Even Calvinists have good things to offer.
Calvinists aren't all that different than us except for the fact that they think God chose them whereas we think that we chose God. :lol

Or more precisely that we could have chosen NOT to accept God's grace.

[kevinmiller]

Perhaps that is a better way of putting it. Does seem rather self-sufficient, in a way, to say we "chose" Him. More, perhaps, that he chose the world and we have the choice whether to accept it or refuse Him.

[Jerry]

That's not what Calvinism teaches though, Kevin. Theirs is a whole foundation built on wrong doctrines.

[war_eagle]

Ok one shot at this because Im not sure if you know he(Piper) is a Calvanist or not.If you are,you are just baiting me to fight with you about Calvanism,which Im not going to do,since this is an IFB web site.The T.U.L.I.P. is not biblical.

Hers is a quote from Piper"We need to rethink our reformed doctrine of salvation so that every limb and every branch in the tree is coursing with the sap of Augustinian delight."
Augistine was the theological father to todays RCC ,just ask them they will tell you..he goes on to say.."We need to make plain that total depravity is not badness,but blindness..and that unconditional election means that the completeness of our joy in Jesus was planned for us before we ever existed

Ok so he believes that God has chosen some to go the hell before they were born and doesnt even offer them a chance to be saved why? because he believes this..the quote goes further..

"and limited atonement is the assurance that indestructible joy in God is infallibly secured for us."
He believes that Jesus only died for the elect and not the world,he believes that God before the world began choose certain people to have their sins atoned for and others to have no chance of ever being saved.Thus ruling out the bilble doctrine that man can choose. He goes on futher...

"by the blood of the covenant;and irresistable grace is the commitment and power of God's love".

Irressistable grace means that those whom God has chosen to be saved,they have no choice,they will automatically recieve Jesus as their Saviour,again leaving no choice.

He is a calvanist,and the TULIP is not biblical..

Oh ya,Im an Auburn fan also :thumb But Im not going to debate Calvanism with you on this board,I only posted these quotes for the IFB'ERS on this board who dont know anything about Piper,not to cange your mind.unless you were unaware of his unbiblical teachings.

Thanks for your response.

I appreciate the time and effort you took to share those quotes with me.

Are there some things there to disagree with? Yes.

Is it heretical? Not from the little bit you've shown me.

Please don't take this as an insinuation that you're not being honest with me, but I'm a big context guy. A sentence or two here and there isn't a lot for me to go on. I'm just the opposite of Bill O'Reilly. He likes short and pithy. I don't.

As long as Piper is holding to orthodoxy, I can't condemn him. So far, while he doesn't appear to choose his words very carefully, I can't find anything in the statements you've shown me to condemn him over.

[war_eagle]

Well, if you read the same article and found nothing wrong with it. I am sorry for you.

I don't think it comes anywhere close to that happiness is a by-product, it is that putting our happiness as the prime reason to do things FOR God.

What I do I do for God, not for MY happiness.

It sounds, to me anyway, the usual feel good theology (seeker sensitive). That mixed with his Calvinism, says it all.

Then you shouldn't listen to him.

[brother_mike]

Never knew of him before this thread.

Read his web site.

I probably won't be!!

[kevinmiller]

That's not what Calvinism teaches though' date=' Kevin. Theirs is a whole foundation built on wrong doctrines.[/quote']
What do you mean? Calvinism is something I am curious about learning more about, as I have many friends who are Calvinist. From what I have seen of it, it seems to be more of a way of looking at life more than it being an actual guideline of a way of living. Those who believe Calvinism tend to appreciate the gift of salvation more, from what I have seen, in the belief that God was merciful enough to choose them of all the people on the earth to receive His gift. I don't agree with that theology, but it seems to be nothing more than a way of looking at life, until you get into hyper-calvinism, where they actually don't believe in soulwinning, but I don't know anyone that believes that way.

Since the topic is also starting to sway back towards John Piper and the criticism of "Christian Hedonism" was made, I found this very interesting from his website:
"By Christian Hedonism, we do not mean that our happiness is the highest good. We mean that pursuing the highest good will always result in our greatest happiness in the end. We should pursue this happiness, and pursue it with all our might. The desire to be happy is a proper motive for every good deed, and if you abandon the pursuit of your own joy you cannot love man or please God."
Which, I must say, I agree with the idea that pursuit of God will result in our greatest happiness. I don't think that happiness should be our sole focus, but it is a noble ambition to have complete joy in God. I'm always cautious of coined phrases and such, so I wouldn't personally use the term, especially considering the connotations it may carry with it, but I do find it rather interesting. At least, I don't think it is heretical.

[matie-k]

This seems to be implying that there are men on the earth who are 100% correct on all things..?

I'm by no means a fan of Piper, but I've heard a lot of good about him and have read a little of his work and was very blessed by it. I take his teachings with a grain of salt as I should with every person's teaching.

As for "calvinists", from my experience, it seems that they're the ones who's main focus is a passion for God, whereas us IFB's focus is more a passion against evil. I'm not a calvinist, but I enjoy listening to some calvinist preachers with their passionate focus on God.