Water Boarding: Is it justified?

[JerryNumbers]

I'm going to post part of a letter to me from a former POW and his thoughts on this. I would have to say, being as he has been there and gone thru it at the famous Hanoi Hilton he would have a much better perspective on it than us who have not been there. Yes I know his view is opposite to John McCains, but I never have cared for John's polities.

I might add this man came home to his wife and a set of twins born just after his entrance to the Hanoi Hilton. Unlike John McCain he never sold out his wife for a young bride.

<<<<<
from my perspective as a former POW who has been thru' several sessions of torture, I can state as a matter of fact that a person can be made to provide answers. Those answers are not necessarily the truth, but you will eventually start responding to questions. What I'm saying is, every person has a breaking point...for some, that point is beyond death, for others it could even be a mere threat. For example: Some of us in Hanoi never signed "confessions" even after years of torture & depravation, but a few signed those "confessions" simply because torture was threatened.

It's been proven that torture might get some answers, but most often those answers have also been proven to be false.

I will say this tho': Nothing should be "off the table" when it comes to saving American lives, especially those in the military directly in harm's way. We should obtain information by whatever means available...otherwise leave them {bad word I took out} on the battlefield "never" to fight again.
>>>>>

[John81]

Also to be considered is America has held itself up as a "moral, civilized nation" that doesn't condone such things as torture and demands no one torture her people. She has also signed the Geneva Convention, and other treaties, which declare torture to be illegal.

There is a huge difference between treating a prisoner in a decent manner and treating them like royalty. No matter how good the prisoners at Gitmo have it, they are not living like royalty nor as if they were in a five star hotel.

Do we want our servicemen, servicewomen, and civilians to be tortured?

True enough, some folks will torture people for little reason, but there are those who won't do such things unless they know, or think, their own are being tortured.

Let's look to the Bible. Does the Bible allow for torture or not?

[JerryNumbers]

Those in Gitmo are being treated much better than our POW's who were held in the Hanoi Hilton. Probably a 1,000,000 star rating better.

[John81]

Those in Gitmo had nothing to do with the Vietnamese War.

However, along these lines, should we determine our treatment of prisoners based upon how others treat prisoners?

Again, what says Scripture?

[Psalms18_28]

Well, you could follow this:
Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,


or follow this:



Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:38-39

[JerryNumbers]

Those in Gitmo had nothing to do with the Vietnamese War.

However, along these lines, should we determine our treatment of prisoners based upon how others treat prisoners?

Again, what says Scripture?

OK, maybe you will understand this better if I ask a question.

Are we treating POW's of this war much better than ours were treated in Vietnam?

Haven't we always treated POW's that we captured much better than our enemies treated members of our military that they captured?

What would you like to do, put them up at the best hotel in America and wait on them hand to foot?

They are there for a reason, they love to kill our soldiers and resist the law of their land.

Right now they have much more than they deserve, ever need they have is furnished them.

Thank God we don't do like them and behead those we capture for the whole world to see.

[John81]

What are we discussing here Jerry, living arrangements or torture?

Are we talking about what is being done today and what should be done, or are we talking about the past?

We can discuss any or all of them, but let me know what it is we are discussing.

[kevinmiller]

I agree with what you've been saying John. If we demand that other countries do not torture our people, then we should not torture theirs. It's as simple as that. If we use torture, then we should expect our own people to be tortured if they are captured. And there is no deciding what extremes they may take torturing to even if we content ourselves with what we might consider "mild" torture. Think of yourself as being the one to inflict that kind of pain on another human being. Could you, as a Christian, commit such a sadistic act on another human being? They wouldn't be likely to be praying for salvation anytime soon, that's for sure. :wink

[JerryNumbers]

John, Please take notice.

<>

This is from you post, you brought up living conditions at Gitmo, not me. I was just showing you how our soldiers have been treated, they were not in near as good of a place as ours were in Hanoi. So I was just replying to what you posted.

And how about those that have been captured in Iraq, what kind of condition did they have. Some of them got their heads cut off.

As for me, I think the POW's at Gitmo are in a much better place than they deserve. And they are getting better health treatment than many in Americas are getting, and they have food, a roof over their head, a place to take a bath, a restroom, the Koran if they want it, we have people in this country that have never lifted a finger against an America soldier as these people did who don't have what our enemies who are held at Gitmo have.

No, I have no compassion for those who try and kill our troops, those who cut peoples heads off, they are exactly where they deserve to be. And if they can use this water boarding and save Americans, great, as long as they don't physically hurt them all is well.

[John81]

When a government decides to take someone prisoner, they take upon themselves the responsibility of caring for them. If you don't believe prisoners should be cared for, then they should not be taken. They should either be executed or released.

Does the Bible say we should have compassion upon prisoners or not?

Do you think being almost drowned, and believing you will be drowned doesn't hurt a person?

Do you know that those at Gitmo are truly guilty of anything criminal or horrible?

[JerryNumbers]

You don't trust you country, your soldiers?

As pointed out, they are being cared for, we have yet ot behead a single one of them.

[tired]

Trust my country hmmm I would have to mull that one over.

[John81]

The soldiers just rounded all the people up. The CIA decided who to send to Gitmo and the CIA doesn't have a very good track record for trust.

A quick look at the history of the American government, especially during the past several decades, shows the government can't be trusted either.

Why should we take it on faith that anyone the government decides to lock up deserves to be locked up; or worse, they deserve to be tortured?

[bibletotingunslinger]

Absolutely NOT, it's way too cold this time of year.

[John81]

Absolutely NOT' date=' it's way too cold this time of year.[/quote']

:cool :thumb