How long are your services?

[dwayner79]

We went to nouthetic counselling training a few years ago. The format was all day training classes, break for dinner, and return for a "preaching/teaching" service in the auditorium after dinner. We normally described the training as "drinking from a fire hydrant" because of the schedule. It was either Wednesday or Thursday, but we were definitely starting to feel the effects of the long days in classes, when we return to listed to a teaching on marriage from the man who had written our pre-marrital counselling book. My wife and I were excited.

After a 25 minute song service, he preached what was a long and hard 45 minute sermon. Bellies full, and surrounded by 2000 people, we were fighting off sleep. We could tell he was nearing a break in the sermon. He said something like:

I want to thank you all for listening. In conclusion, I want to give you 15 things the scripture has to say about a healthy marriage.

The crowd laughed at the joke. Turns out it wasn't a joke. The first 3 or 4 he gave with no commentary. Then, progressively, each point came with more explaination. 35 minutes later he wrapped up the 15 things, and we left. To date, I have no clue what that man said (though I do have the notes), but I remember that sermon.

[JerryNumbers]

Our services starts at 10:00 AM, we usually have 2 songs, a prayer and short devotional, them Sunday school, which is over about 10:50 AM.

Worship services starts at 11:00 AM with songs and offering, my sermon usually starts at about 11:15 to 11:20. My sermons are of different lengths, its rightly according to the subject and what needs to be said. Very seldom do they go until 12:00 noon, but occasionally they do. Probably in the past 6 years I've gone past 12:00 noon 3 maybe 4 times. Average sermons is probably over at 11:45 AM. Every now and again a bit earlier than that.

Sunday night my sermon will run anywhere from 25 minutes to 40 minutes.

I never did believed in long sermons. But I also don't believe in setting the length of a sermon, some take more time, some less time.

I might add, its quite amazing how time will fly by while giving a sermon.

[qwerty guy]

I remember few years ago. When the preacher preached so long in the service, the visitors left during the service. I knew it is a bad timing.

it took 2 years of working on many of my family members

A visitor challenge that could win me a cruise finally had my family agreeing to visit my church

My preacher preached for about an hour and 15 min, after about 30 min of announcements, and a 10 min presentation.

the last 20-30 of his preaching, was simply because he didn't want to let church out before the donated burritos arrived, it was obvious to everyone, including visitors, what was going on. The burritos are late, better keep them here..............

It's been almost 2 years now, and I have not had a family member visit again. Every time my church is brought up, including just this last christmas, the only thing they talk about is how long the service was and how they just wanted to leave.

I witness to them... they ask me the religion questions... at thanksgiving, even as the 9th of 10 kids, it's me they turn too to lead the prayer... The only thing stopping most of my family from excepting the truth, is that I'm the deliverer. They grew up with me, and anyone who's tried to talk to family about Jesus will know, they either dismiss you as the 6 year old they remember pulling their hair, or cuz you're family they take a wait and see, and they wait themselves right into hell.

I was really praying that visiting a real church, full of christians, with a great pastor, maybe some would hit the alter, or simply raise their hand.

Instead all they talk about for 2 years now is the guy who can't shut up.

I Love my pastor deeply, he's my man of God. He's not Jesus, I don't expect him to be perfect, if I did, and he messed up even a little, the gap between perfect and messed up a little is so huge that it would cause unhealthy feelings. My pastor is human, but if God didn't use him because he's human, that means he wouldn't use me either, so I thank God every day for my pastor.

But I look into the faces of my hell bound mother and siblings now and then, and have to hear about how they still have back problems from the sermon that wouldn't end.

I really hope they don't go to hell because of burritos.

My personal feelings? bring on a 3 hour sermon for wen service... bring on 1.5-2 hours for sunday night.... sunday morning, is more evangilizing.. visitors, guests.. I see so many people walk out and never come back complaining that they "gave church a chance" and it lasted so long they ended up regreating it.

Babies eat milk, they don't eat steak... But you force feed them enough milk and they puke.

It's crushing me every sunday morning as I shake hands with visitors excited to be there, only to see them storm out at the end of service with complaints about length.

idk.. reason I started this I guess is to see what people said because I'm thinking about mentioning to the pastor.. problem there I see is that if he tried to tell me how to lay brick I would laugh at him, and so I don't feel it's my place to tell him how to pastor.

I guess all I would really do though, is just let him know what I've been seeing, and how I feel about it. Not in a "you're doing it wrong" kinda way, but just so he is aware of the mindset of some people.

HEY PASTORS? How would you prefer a church member bring this up to you? (don't answer with "just after they give me a new car")

[kevinmiller]

I don't know that I would talk to him about changing the morning service to be more evangelistically-oriented. The church is supposed to be for the edification of Christians, so the messages should be geared towards Christians, not unbelievers. We can't expect the unsaved to appreciate a message because they aren't going to be interested in it. We can't design the church around them because the church isn't meant for them.

[Guest Guest]

It's crushing me every sunday morning as I shake hands with visitors excited to be there, only to see them storm out at the end of service with complaints about length.

Proverbs 27:7 The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet.

[Jerry]

I don't know that I would talk to him about changing the morning service to be more evangelistically-oriented. The church is supposed to be for the edification of Christians' date=' so the messages should be geared towards Christians, not unbelievers. We can't expect the unsaved to appreciate a message because they aren't going to be interested in it. We can't design the church around them because the church isn't meant for them.[/quote']

You should still present the Gospel clearly in each message. In the NT epistles, Paul still presents the Gospel, and pleads with those among the Christians to get saved. Peter and Paul's sermons in the book of Acts presented the Gospel. Jesus in at least some of His sermons presented the Gospel. In the seven letters to the churches, the Gospel is symbolically presented - especially in the letter to Laodicea.

[kevinmiller]

I disagree. In the majority of Paul's letters, he doesn't plead with them to be saved, but edifies them as already having partaken of the grace of God. Christ preached repentance when he preached to an unsaved audience, which was who he was often preaching to. The express purpose of the local church was to edify and build up the believer, the unsaved do not have a place in God's church.

[JerryNumbers]

When I was young, we had a pastor that would regularly go past 12:00 noon.

Anyone could tell, even me at 15 years of age, the longer he went past 12:00 noon the less attention everyone paid to him, but the pastor could not tell this.

The deacons spoke to him a few times about it, usually after they spoke to him, the next couple of Sundays they would be a bit shorter, them it was back to the long sermons. One thing I noticed, in many long sermons the pastor will repeat his self.

Most pastor will not take someone mentioning their sermons are to long very good.

Humans do have an attention span, when you go pat that, your doing no one the least bit of good.

If I was not a pastor, and the pastor failed to present the presents the Gospel, I would think he had a problem, especially Sunday morning when the visitors are usually present as qwerty guy said was usually present at their church.

The only reason I can think of that anyone would not want their pastor to present the Gospel is they do not want anyone to have convictions nor to be saved. And I see there are a few on this board that feel that way. That is extermly sad. The rest of us surely need to pray for them.

[kevinmiller]

lol, It's funny how you always hint so blatantly obviously about who you're talking about. I would rather you just be honest and say what you're thinking rather than trying to mask it while making sure it is obvious to everyone.

I am sometimes stunned by your arguments, I must say. I'm not sure where you get the logic to make some of the accusations that you do. You infer that because I believe church is meant for Christians(which it is, Biblically) that somehow I don't care about souls. It's a petty way of trying to set up a strawman argument to prove a point that you can't prove with good honest debate.

[John81]

I have been to churches where every service is basically a "preaching to the lost" service and I don't believe this is right.

Church services are primarily for the saved and should be primarily about edifying the Body of Christ. Certainly, there is a place for presenting the Gospel within the sermon (especially if the Pastor knows there are unsaved present or there are visitors) but for every sermon to be a salvation sermon isn't feeding the flock.

A pastor should feed his flock the meat of the Word of God and the congregation should go forth spreading the Gospel as they go.

[Jerry]

I disagree. In the majority of Paul's letters' date=' he doesn't plead with them to be saved, but edifies them as already having partaken of the grace of God. Christ preached repentance when he preached to an unsaved audience, which was who he was often preaching to. The express purpose of the local church was to edify and build up the believer, the unsaved do not have a place in God's church.[/quote']

The unsaved are not part of the church - but it is a denial of the New Testament to believe that there were no unsaved meeting in the first century church gatherings. All seven letters in Revelation 2-3 - which is Christ's letters to the churches - appeal to the listener to be an overcomer (ie. saved according to John 5:4-5).

Romans 1-4 present the Gospel plan of salvation - I do not believe it was written just for believers.

Here is an appeal to the lost:

2 Corinthians 6:1-2 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Here is another one:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The book of Hebrews contains various appeals for the first century Hebrews to come to Christ and stop trusting in their traditions and OT shadows.

There are others.

[qwerty guy]

Kevin, I'd back off.

The sunday morning service at my church, as well as every one I've visited, has been the service that visitors come, that backslidders come....

You don't have to be preaching romans road every sunday morning, to have it evangelical, tuned to the saving of souls, to the return of backsliders to the cross.....

I said go heavier sunday night.. I said go all out mid week. Sunday morning I simply see that there are many people who are dipping their toe in the water and running away after a 2 hour service.

The sunday morning service to be honest is always a "milk" service at my church, but he takes the 2 points he has, and repeats them 10 times in 10 different ways, and throws in 100 stories, and to be frank people are just not that stupid.

I preach, I know how when I have God moving my heart, and I really wanna help people, I get where I don't wanna let them go because I don't want them falling into stuff I am trying to warn them about. I have had it where I am preaching and 40 min feels like 10 min. But from the seat to the stage, I realize that not only are people not stupid, but they also can't sit for 2 hours hearing the same thing over and over and not shut off.

You want church only for christians, then make the church member only.

I expect, and WANT my church to come hard mid-week, and I never invite people to that service cuz I don't expect them to be able to handle it. But you don't come mid-week preaching on a sunday morning with 20 people in the seats that have just gotten up earlier on a sunday then they have in 10 years.

Given this tread, which I was scared to post in the first place, I'm really starting to understand, that I need to talk to my preacher.

This isn't about dumbing down a service, or getting liberal.. this is about people who get a feeling they need to find out about God, and get run off.

[JerryNumbers]

lol, It's funny how you always hint so blatantly obviously about who you're talking about. I would rather you just be honest and say what you're thinking rather than trying to mask it while making sure it is obvious to everyone.

I am sometimes stunned by your arguments, I must say. I'm not sure where you get the logic to make some of the accusations that you do. You infer that because I believe church is meant for Christians(which it is, Biblically) that somehow I don't care about souls. It's a petty way of trying to set up a strawman argument to prove a point that you can't prove with good honest debate.

Quite simple Kelvin, that is the only reason I know of for anyone not wanting to Gospel of Jesus Christ preached.

If you've got a very good reason for it not to be presented, please state it.

But 1st let me tell you, I know hundreds of good solid Christians who would completely disagree with you just as Jerry and I have.

By the way, the Gospel of Jesus Christ can be built into every message and still feed the flock.

What woudl be sad is for a pastor to take your advice and not present it and someone walk out lost having missed what could be the last and only opportunity for them to accept Jesus as their Savior and be doomed to hell for eternity. How would you like to have that own your shoulder, or have their blood on your hands? I know I don't want to and I know the other Jerry does not want to either.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:7 (KJV)

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
Luke 15:10 (KJV)

[JerryNumbers]

Kevin, I'd back off.

The sunday morning service at my church, as well as every one I've visited, has been the service that visitors come, that backslidders come....

You don't have to be preaching romans road every sunday morning, to have it evangelical, tuned to the saving of souls, to the return of backsliders to the cross.....

I said go heavier sunday night.. I said go all out mid week. Sunday morning I simply see that there are many people who are dipping their toe in the water and running away after a 2 hour service.

The sunday morning service to be honest is always a "milk" service at my church, but he takes the 2 points he has, and repeats them 10 times in 10 different ways, and throws in 100 stories, and to be frank people are just not that stupid.

I preach, I know how when I have God moving my heart, and I really wanna help people, I get where I don't wanna let them go because I don't want them falling into stuff I am trying to warn them about. I have had it where I am preaching and 40 min feels like 10 min. But from the seat to the stage, I realize that not only are people not stupid, but they also can't sit for 2 hours hearing the same thing over and over and not shut off.

You want church only for christians, then make the church member only.

I expect, and WANT my church to come hard mid-week, and I never invite people to that service cuz I don't expect them to be able to handle it. But you don't come mid-week preaching on a sunday morning with 20 people in the seats that have just gotten up earlier on a sunday then they have in 10 years.

Given this tread, which I was scared to post in the first place, I'm really starting to understand, that I need to talk to my preacher.

This isn't about dumbing down a service, or getting liberal.. this is about people who get a feeling they need to find out about God, and get run off.

I'm going to do just a bit of speculating. You help me with this and the reason I'm asking this is because of what you stated in this post, it made me do a bit of thinking.

Perhaps some long time Christians only attend services once a week, that being Sunday morning. I know in every church I've been a part of there was always those who would only attend Sunday morning services. They never come to services outside of this to get to hear the meat of the word. So they expect it to be given to them on Sunday morning.

Now myself and my wife, we have always attended every service, ever Bible study and preaching services both. And to be honest, I have usually enjoyed Sunday night and Wednesday night preaching the best, for it always seem to get down to the facts. In saying that I am not saying I did not enjoy Sunday morning preaching, for I did, it was just a bit of a different astrosphere. Same with Bible study classes.

I'm glad you brought it up, hopefully when we discuss such things all of us can learn something from it.

[ltl]

Service typically starts around 10.45, and ends around 12.30 to 12.45.