I’m the pastor here, if you don’t like it you can leave

[TheGloryLand]

What is the borderline for a Christian members, of remaining in a local church. What does the Bible say about those that are in authority abusing it. I heard others mention that we must pray, that the Lord takes control of the situation. Pastors and members can have bad attitudes. I know we can forgive and forget, it’s not always that you have to leave the church. I believe pastors and members, should leave a church when they feel that they are no longer a blessing or growing spiritually there. Some might say, we go to church to seek God and not man. I also agree with this. Do you have any good story, that you can share with us on leaving or staying in your church.

Thanks 

[Jerry]

It's not an issue of forgive and forget. If it was a manner of "the Lord taking over the situation" when you pray, then the NT wouldn't have instructions on how to deal with problem pastors or members.

What is the church leadership doing (in this case)? Do they contradict the Bible in their doctrine and in their practices (for lack of a better word)? If a pastor has abused his authority or treated members in a wrong/sinful manner, has he made it right or is this an ongoing issue? If ongoing, then a person needs to take one or more witnesses to speak with the pastor. If the pastor repents, then unless the issue keeps coming up again, then it should be fine to put it behind you. If the pastor continually abuses his authority, then perhaps it is time to find another church. A spiritually-abusive pastor can do a lot of damage over time.

This may answer some questions: https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/pastors_deacons_members.php

[TheGloryLand]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

It's not an issue of forgive and forget. If it was a manner of "the Lord taking over the situation" when you pray, then the NT wouldn't have instructions on how to deal with problem pastors or members.

What is the church leadership doing (in this case)? Do they contradict the Bible in their doctrine and in their practices (for lack of a better word)? If a pastor has abused his authority or treated members in a wrong/sinful manner, has he made it right or is this an ongoing issue? If ongoing, then a person needs to take one or more witnesses to speak with the pastor. If the pastor repents, then unless the issue keeps coming up again, then it should be fine to put it behind you. If the pastor continually abuses his authority, then perhaps it is time to find another church. A spiritually-abusive pastor can do a lot of damage over time.

This may answer some questions: https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/pastors_deacons_members.php

Thanks for sharing, I know of a person that was a deacon friend of mine, he had some concerns and the pastor blew him away. He left the membership, not sure what really happen. I do know that he was a good giver, the tithe. The pastor is no longer there, my friend should have stayed a little longer perhaps. It takes a while to see if a church ministration is doing everything correctly. Sometimes years… Today churches like hidden things, not all churches. Like salaries, and the complete financial reports.

Sad,

[BrotherTony]

6 minutes ago, E Morales said:

Thanks for sharing, I know of a person that was a deacon friend of mine, he had some concerns and the pastor blew him away. He left the membership, not sure what really happen. I do know that he was a good giver, the tithe. The pastor is no longer there, my friend should have stayed a little longer perhaps. It takes a while to see if a church ministration is doing everything correctly. Sometimes years… Today churches like hidden things, not all churches. Like salaries, and the complete financial reports.

Sad,

If the churches got "hidden things" as you stated, ie, salaries and complete financial reports, then the congregants and the deacons have the responsibility to make sure that this changes. There should NEVER be hidden finances in a 501c3 (Church). If there is, they can lose their tax exempt status from the government, and shouldn't be operating as a church...since the church is the people in it, not the building. I've NEVER known a church to have "hidden" anything when it comes to finances. Not in the Methodist church, the IFB churches I grew up in and attended until 22 years ago, nor the SBC churches my wife and I have been a part of. Salaries are ALWAYS to be open, and those in leadership held accountable for making these things known. 

[TheGloryLand]

3 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

If the churches got "hidden things" as you stated, ie, salaries and complete financial reports, then the congregants and the deacons have the responsibility to make sure that this changes. There should NEVER be hidden finances in a 501c3 (Church). If there is, they can lose their tax exempt status from the government, and shouldn't be operating as a church...since the church is the people in it, not the building. I've NEVER known a church to have "hidden" anything when it comes to finances. Not in the Methodist church, the IFB churches I grew up in and attended until 22 years ago, nor the SBC churches my wife and I have been a part of. Salaries are ALWAYS to be open, and those in leadership held accountable for making these things known. 

Many times it starts with simply not turning in receipts. 

[BrotherTony]

51 minutes ago, E Morales said:

Many times it starts with simply not turning in receipts. 

Never seen it in a Baptist church. Examples? Seems like you're hitting on the negative again.....

[TheGloryLand]

32 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Never seen it in a Baptist church. Examples? Seems like you're hitting on the negative again.....

That amazing all your churches, and yes, if it’s happening, it’s negative. You’ve got the perfect church. Outstanding 

[HappyChristian]

Knock it off, E...nobody said their church was perfect.  You are coming across as though this kind of thing is commonplace. That is where the negative charge comes in...that it seems you are all-too-often denigrating Baptist churches in general. Snark is not necessary.

Truth of the matter is that, yes, there are churches that have leadership that is dishonest, sadly. Even IFB churches. More than there should be, but I don't think as many as you infer. 

I cannot cite an example that I'd like to because this is a public forum and affected folks could see it. But rest assured, there was a lot of wickedness by the pastor. And, sadly, it was a Baptist church. A number of people quit church forever over it.

I think, though, that both Jerry and BroTony answered your questions well.

[TheGloryLand]

6 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Knock it off, E...nobody said their church was perfect.  You are coming across as though this kind of thing is commonplace. That is where the negative charge comes in...that it seems you are all-too-often denigrating Baptist churches in general. Snark is not necessary.

Truth of the matter is that, yes, there are churches that have leadership that is dishonest, sadly. Even IFB churches. More than there should be, but I don't think as many as you infer. 

I cannot cite an example that I'd like to because this is a public forum and affected folks could see it. But rest assured, there was a lot of wickedness by the pastor. And, sadly, it was a Baptist church. A number of people quit church forever over it.

I think, though, that both Jerry and BroTony answered your questions well.

I know that my post might sound negative and some take them personally, not sure why. I do know we love to be on the winning side, this is normal. Sometimes, I take the trash out that nobody wants to do, or smell. I speak not only thing that applies to us Baptist, but all churches. I being an evangelist can speak freely without worrying that I might get fired. I’m non profit, I work full time for a living, I’m a maintenance Technician HVAC specialist. I have a non profit website called thegloryland.com free always free. These messages that I post here might reach the right person. That’s why I’m here only. I haven’t been able to fellowships much here.

E Morales

[BrotherTony]

59 minutes ago, E Morales said:

I know that my post might sound negative and some take them personally, not sure why. I do know we love to be on the winning side, this is normal. Sometimes, I take the trash out that nobody wants to do, or smell. I speak not only thing that applies to us Baptist, but all churches. I being an evangelist can speak freely without worrying that I might get fired. I’m non profit, I work full time for a living, I’m a maintenance Technician HVAC specialist. I have a non profit website called thegloryland.com free always free. These messages that I post here might reach the right person. That’s why I’m here only. I haven’t been able to fellowships much here.

E Morales

Maybe you should try a different approach in your posts, Morales. It's hard NOT to take some of your posts personally especially in the light of how they're worded. It doesn't seem like you're trying to "take the trash out that nobody wants to do, or smell." It seems like you, if you truly are an evangelist, are being negative against your own denomination. Most all of these threads you've started have been this way. You say, "I being an evangelist can speak freely without worrying that I might get fired. I'm non profit." The way you approach things can definitely get you "fired" in the respect that the people you're preaching to can decide NOT to have you back. I know many evangelists who thought they were free to say what they wanted, but, they found that a LOT of what they said, and even how they approached the subjects they preached on WERE NOT Scripturally sound. The Bible tells us to "speak the truth in love," yet, many of us, including me, don't often follow through on this. I would implore and encourage you to try another tact. This one is truly not working here. That could definitely be why you "haven't been able to fellowship much here." I don't think it's that nobody here wants to fellowship with you, it's just that you make it rough on yourself. 

BT

[HappyChristian]

On 3/29/2022 at 4:26 AM, E Morales said:

I know that my post might sound negative and some take them personally, not sure why. I do know we love to be on the winning side, this is normal. Sometimes, I take the trash out that nobody wants to do, or smell. I speak not only thing that applies to us Baptist, but all churches. I being an evangelist can speak freely without worrying that I might get fired. I’m non profit, I work full time for a living, I’m a maintenance Technician HVAC specialist. I have a non profit website called thegloryland.com free always free. These messages that I post here might reach the right person. That’s why I’m here only. I haven’t been able to fellowships much here.

E Morales

I'm glad for you that you are independent. But that has nothing to do with what I was saying: I was referring to your unnecessary comment about somebody's church being perfect, especially when nobody said it was nor even inferred it. I, for one, don't really don't mind your posts. But others do...and it is true that you seem to have a love/hate relationship with Baptists. If you want to convince us that you are truly "taking out the trash" of ALL churches, stop focusing on Baptists in your posts.

I think Tony summed it up well.

[1Timothy115]

The thought comes to mind, how many dishonest Morales's would we find if we went around looking for them. I'm not trying to dismiss the truth, that there are dishonest pastors and congregants, I'm just flipping the coin on E Morales.

[TheGloryLand]

3 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

The thought comes to mind, how many dishonest Morales's would we find if we went around looking for them. I'm not trying to dismiss the truth, that there are dishonest pastors and congregants, I'm just flipping the coin on E Morales.

This is a good question, how many, only the Lord knows, and those that are reading this post. It’s very hard for the counselor, to get counseling.

[BrotherTony]

13 hours ago, E Morales said:

This is a good question, how many, only the Lord knows, and those that are reading this post. It’s very hard for the counselor, to get counseling.

It's also easy for people who aren't happy with their denomination to post unrealistic posts about it and feign ignorance while doing so. You have yet to post ANY statistics on the Baptist bashing posts you put on OnlineBaptist.com .