Becoming a non-denominational preacher

[TheGloryLand]

Why would any Pastor would want to become a non-denominational preacher, you’re just looking for trouble it in my opinion.

 

[Jerry]

Also, to clarify, denominations are not Biblical. An IFB church is not a denomination. It is a Baptist church that is not part of another church group or has a headquarters anywhere telling them what to preach or believe.

General observation, not applied to anyone or any group in specific (though based on reading and researching about specific churches through the years):

Assuming you are talking about a Baptist or IFB church leaving its name or identification behind, then It is a watering down of the truth, choosing not to stand where they once stood. If they are from a denomination that went by the wayside, I can see them leaving that denomination and becoming "non-denominational" because they don't know if there are other denominations or groups that are solid and preach and practice the truth these days. They might not know how to identify themselves anymore. Though if they are following the worldly trend of becoming some kind of "community church," that is bad in itself, and often an attempt to fit in with the crowd because of not desiring to contend for the faith anymore. You draw more people if you lower the standards and bring the truth down to its lowest common denominator.

 

[Yeshuafan]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:00 PM, E Morales said:

Why would any Pastor would want to become a non-denominational preacher, you’re just looking for trouble it in my opinion.

 

Think some go that route to avoid accountibility, as they can stack the Elders to be all "yes men"

[TheGloryLand]

1 minute ago, Yeshuafan said:

Think some go that route to avoid accountibility, as they can stack the Elders to be all "yes men"

I thought it was to have more members, church growth, when combining other denominations, excepting some of their teachings, and ways of worshiping. Many Bible versions and more.

[BrotherTony]

4 minutes ago, Yeshuafan said:

Think some go that route to avoid accountibility, as they can stack the Elders to be all "yes men"

Some go that route to avoid accountability...yes..but, we can find many in the IFB circles that lack accountability and stack deacons, trustees (if their church has them) and others in their favor. I grew up in a church that did just that. I truly believe that Bible churches get a bad rap in many cases because they don't carry the name "Baptist" even if they have the fundamentals and positions that a solid IFB church would have. I know of some "Free Methodist" churches that are as fundamental as Baptist churches I've been in. My great uncle was an old-school Methodist pastor & evangelist, and he didn't hold to a lot of what the Methodists  held to, thus the "Free" in their name. 

[Yeshuafan]

11 minutes ago, E Morales said:

I thought it was to have more members, church growth, when combining other denominations, excepting some of their teachings, and ways of worshiping. Many Bible versions and more.

Yes, it should be, but have seen times where it was dfone for reason I outlined!

10 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Some go that route to avoid accountability...yes..but, we can find many in the IFB circles that lack accountability and stack deacons, trustees (if their church has them) and others in their favor. I grew up in a church that did just that. I truly believe that Bible churches get a bad rap in many cases because they don't carry the name "Baptist" even if they have the fundamentals and positions that a solid IFB church would have. I know of some "Free Methodist" churches that are as fundamental as Baptist churches I've been in. My great uncle was an old-school Methodist pastor & evangelist, and he didn't hold to a lot of what the Methodists  held to, thus the "Free" in their name. 

Yes, as there are indeed several different flavors of Baptist!

[Behold]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:00 AM, TheGloryLand said:

Why would any Pastor would want to become a non-denominational preacher, you’re just looking for trouble it in my opinion.

 

 

 

Well, the most basic answer is...  

The Call of God is not a denomination invitation.

[Jerry]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

Well, the most basic answer is...  

The Call of God is not a denomination invitation.

No, but we are called to abide in the truth, learn it, hold to it - and that will eventually involve finding a church/denomination that holds more closely to the truth, if there are any doctrinal or practical issues with the church you came to the Lord in or started attending after you got saved. Yes, that will involve growth and more understanding of Bible truth as you walk closer with the Lord through the years. I see too many stunt their growth because they don't care about making choices based on truth, because it means they might leave their family church or their social club. But God is more concerned with perfecting His body (each church corporately and each individual separately) than making them feel comfortable and stale wherever they have been for untold years.

P.S. Why do you have a Catholic picture of "Jesus"?

Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Acts 17:24-27 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

The halo around the head is from Babylon, and then was added to Catholicism over the years.

[Behold]

24 minutes ago, Jerry said:

No, but we are called to abide in the truth, learn it, hold to it - and that will eventually involve finding a church/denomination that holds more closely to the truth, if there are any doctrinal or practical issues with the church you came to the Lord in or started attending after you got saved.

 

 

 

Hey Jerry,

thanks for your post.

I'd like for you to see it though my perspective.

First, did you notice that Paul the Apostle, never had a church home?  He only planted them and went back to water them.

And did you ever realize that..,..

1) .God Makes Christians

2.) Man makes Denominations.

3.) Cults make cult members (Calvin makes Calvinist's)

Those are not the same thing.

 

So, is it good to be planted in a Local Church.

Of course. and i would tell anyone in the States,  that they should find a good  KJV Bible Believing Church, and if not that, then at least one that KNOWS and preaches that the Bible is the Final authority., Not the Paster, or the Pope.

 

And it is a fact that a new Christian, just born again, at the "alter" has no idea if they are in a cult, as they have no way to know this yet.

And its a difficult situation to get to the revelation that Paul is our Teacher, and then discover that your Pastor, Pope, Minister, is not a student of Paul

As if you are not a devoted and devout student of Paul's doctrine, all your Christian life, then that is because you are in the wrong Church..listening to the wrong pastor. and thats a fact.

 

 

 

Edited March 11 by Behold

[BrotherTony]

5 minutes ago, Behold said:

 

Hey Jerry,

thanks for your post.

I'd like for you to see it though my perspective.

First, did you notice that Paul the Apostle, never had a church home?  He only planted them and went back to water them.

And did you ever realize that..,..

1) .God Makes Christians

2.) Man makes Denominations.

3.) Cults make cult members (Calvin makes Calvinist's)

Those are not the same thing.

 

So, is it good to be planted in a Local Church.

Of course. and i would tell anyone in the States,  that they should find a good  KJV Bible Believing Church, and if not that, then at least one that KNOWS and preaches that the Bible is the Final authority., Not the Paster, or the Pope.

 

And it is a fact that a new Christian, just born again, at the "alter" has no idea if they are in a cult, as they have no way to know this yet.

And its a difficult situation to get to the revelation that Paul is our Teacher, and then discover that your Pastor, Pope, Minister, is not a student of Paul

As if you are not a devoted and devout student of Paul's doctrine, all your Christian life, then that is because you are in the wrong Church..listening to the wrong pastor. and thats a fact.

 

 

 

I am of Paul... just as bad as "I am of Calvin." We don't base our beliefs on Paul, though, yes he does teach us many things. We use the Bible as a whole, and ALL of those who are/have been teaching us in it. Paul is not the only source of doctrine in the Bible.

[Jerry]

All of NT doctrine is for the church (not just Paul's writiings) - actually ALL the Bible is for doctrine, though it must be rightly divided.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The NT teaches that the NT church is the primary thing (though not saying the only thing) God uses to perfect the saints in this age. He also uses the work of the Holy Spirit with the Word of God.

Ephesians 4:11-15 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

There are various other passages that teach perfection is something the true believer in Christ can achieve/attain in this life (not sinlessness, but maturity), but it not something we automatically have - it is through spiritual growth we are made perfect.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.James 3:1-2 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Paul wasn't perfected yet in the sense of being all that the Lord wanted him to be (or would make him to be one day):

Philippians 3:7-12 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

But he was perfect in the sense of being a mature believer in Christ:

Philippians 3:13-15 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

 

 

 

[Behold]

15 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I am of Paul... just as bad as "I am of Calvin." 

 

I see that your NT understanding, has some holes in it.

Let me show you a verse.

KJV.. "Be thou a follower of Me, as i follow Christ"

That's what Paul told us.......and he told us this because Paul is the "apostle to the gentiles" in the "time of the gentiles", and you are in it.

Paul is "chosen vessel" especially chosen by Jesus, to bring the Doctrine of the Church to us.

And any real Baptist, who has studied the NT for 12 seconds, knows that "The Gospel of the Grace of God", that is 2 Corinthians 5:19 and John 3:17.

This Gospel that we are to believe, teach, and share, came from Jesus TO Paul.

This is why Paul told YOU........that this Gospel is 'MY Gospel"......And Paul said that 3x in the NT.

And @BrotherTony if you preach or teach any other Gospel, then =  "Paul's Gospel), you are this one.....  Galatians 1:8... (another verse by Paul).

Edited March 12 by Behold

[Jerry]

This is the verse from the KJv:

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

If you do not have easy access to a Bible program you can copy/paste from, try this site:

https://www.blueletterbible.org

Edited March 12 by Jerry
Fixed link

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

 

I see that your NT understanding, has some holes in it.

I don't think so... and your condescending attitude towards me and others on this site, including the administrator is wearing. 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

Let me show you a verse.

KJV.. "Be thou a follower of Me, as i follow Christ"

This IS NOT KJV. It's an improvisation. You know the rules of this site, yet you continue to violate them. 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

That's what Paul told us.......and he told us this because Paul is the "apostle to the gentiles" in the "time of the gentiles", and you are in it.

Yes, we are ALL in the time of the gentiles. 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

Paul is "chosen vessel" especially chosen by Jesus, to bring the Doctrine of the Church to us.

Paul was not the only person giving doctrine to the church. It seems that the fact that there were other apostles preaching the Gospel and instructing the church. 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

And any real Baptist, who has studied the NT for 12 seconds, knows that "The Gospel of the Grace of God", that is 2 Corinthians 5:19 and John 3:17.

I'm pretty sure most Christians understand that once they are saved they are a new creation and that God extended this grace to us. You use the terminology "real Baptist." I believe most here ARE "real Baptists." 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

This Gospel that we are to believe, teach, and share, came from Jesus TO Paul.

 

And to the other disciples as well. The only difference was that Paul was sent to the Gentiles. You seem to place far too much emphasis on Paul's ministry. Yes, he did write much of the New Testament, but, he is not the only apostle, nor are his writings alone. 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

This is why Paul told YOU

 

ME? Nobody else? Don't you mean "US?" 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

 

 

 

........that this Gospel is 'MY Gospel"......And Paul said that 3x in the NT.

 

Yes he did say "my gospel." And yet if you look at the Bible as a whole, as it dovetails together, his gospel IS NOT alone. 

2 hours ago, Behold said:

And @BrotherTony if you preach or teach any other Gospel, then =  "Paul's Gospel), you are this one.....  Galatians 1:8... (another verse by Paul).

And who is preaching or teaching any other gospel? Certainly not I. 

Just a final word to you from me. I don't know how others here appreciate being talked down to, and especially when it is done with the haughty spirit you seem to show towards others here. You, sir, are not my teacher, nor my pastor. You've made a "grand entrance" onto this site with what seems to be a mission of telling us that we don't know our Bible, the gospel, and have even seemed to intimate that I am teaching another gospel. You're pompous, arrogant and self-righteous. If you continue to address me in the manner you have been, I will not hesitate to respond. All this being said, I hope you have a nice day.

[Behold]

22 hours ago, Jerry said:

 

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

 

Yes, im the one that explained to you that that verse is what every believer is supposed to do.

Im glad you thought about it more.

That's good.

Listen..

, Paul is our Teacher, as well as being the greatest Christian who ever lived.

 

Paul is a "chosen vessel", whom the Lord Chose, after Jesus was back in Heaven.

 

See, Jesus had told the 11 that ... "i have many things to tell you, to say to you, but you are unable to hear them (receive them)(bear them)...

 

So, Jesus send Paul to reveal all this as "Church Doctrine".

21 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

 

Paul was not the only person giving doctrine to the church

 

Paul was chosen by Jesus, to deliver Church Doctrine to us.

This is why Paul wrote most of the NT Epistles.

When you want to learn Church Doctrine, you go to Paul's writings.

Even PETER recognized Paul's Letters, that Peter had, as "SCRIPTURE"< and he stated this before the NT came that has Paul's letters in it.

So, the real student of "Church Doctrine" studies Paul doctrine.

Edited March 13 by Behold