Music in Church

[trc123]

I'm kind of chuckling at the fact that Bro. Diego cautions MrsW and Kevin to study with an open heart and somewhat casts dispersions on MrsW that she's already made up her mind and assumes that they don't have an open heart; while at the same time Bro. Diego does seem to be somewhat (if not totally) resistant to hearing with an open heart the other side of the presentation.

Oh well, all the best.

[Guest Guest]

I'm kind of chuckling at the fact that Bro. Diego cautions MrsW and Kevin to study with an open heart and somewhat casts dispersions on MrsW that she's already made up her mind and assumes that they don't have an open heart; while at the same time Bro. Diego does seem to be somewhat (if not totally) resistant to hearing with an open heart the other side of the presentation.

Oh well, all the best.

Neither side is showing Scripture on this issue, but like Kevin is saying, the burden of proof is on the person who wants to say all CCM is sinful.

Bro. Diego, it isn't going to do much good to just post a link to an article written by someone else and say "this is what I believe". If you really believe that you have a Scriptural argument, then you need to be able to respond in your own words and quote verses to back you up in your posts. If you can't do that, then people aren't really going to listen.

[futurehope]

Soo let's see if i understand you futurehope. By the way there is no neutral positions about music. If you don't have a problem with it you have accept it. And evidently you agree with it.

Now, are you telling me that because i challenge someone to study verse by verse the music issue its subjective opinion?

I gave you a website, that talks about music you can go read it and pretend it was me who wrote it, because i agree 100% on what it says. GO read it and tell me what you think.

I agree with you: there is no neutral positions. What you may not realize is that I have studied music for the past 20 years and even served in the USMC Band. I have taken courses on music from the basics to advanced theory and composition. As to your "And evidently you agree with it." statement, it is one only a fool would make - or someone who can't read what I have posted. Let me clarify:

You have taken a stand against CCM and I have refused to because the stance is wrong in the sight of God. You cannot lump all that music into one category and call it all wrong. I do believe that much of it is wrong and is just a business in which men glorify themselves.

What I found most interesting is that all you provided was a website - and one that you even disagree with according to your statements - because one of your original posts was against all CCM. The website did not even claim that all CCM is wrong, just a lot of it (the same as I said).

There is one very strong point where the website is very wrong and has failed to prove itself and that is that Christian music is not for preaching and evangelism. There is nothing in God's word to support such a stance.

Also, the idea that preaching and praise of God outside the church house is inappropriate is - for a lack of a better term - legalistic. As a matter of fact, this goes completely contrary to the KJB. We are told to go into all the world and preach the gospel. If the music does contain the gospel message and does witness for Christ, there is nothing wrong with singing it in public as a form of preaching.

Now I know that the original topic was music in the church, but now that we have expanded that topic outside of church services, let me return to that topic and say that, yes, music in services also should either glorify God OR testify of Him. Either is acceptable unto Him.

Also, as to the DRUM, it is very foolish to assume that because the drum was not one of the instruments mentioned, that it is an abomination unto God. The pagans used fire in their worship too - does that mean that we can't use fire or praise God for it? Didn't God appear in the form of a burning bush to Moses? Sound rediculous?? So is assuming things about God's word that aren't there.

Other than what I have mentioned here, this is a fairly good assessment of Christian music on this website, however there are these points in which they have pushed there own belief and misinterpretted the scriptures.

[kevinmiller]

I don't know how closely we agree on music specifically, futurehope, but that was an excellent post. :thumb

[trc123]

I don't know how closely we agree on music specifically' date=' futurehope, but that was an excellent post. :thumb[/quote']


Here, here............... :goodpost:

[Bro. Diego]

Maybe in a soon future If God wants I will post my position standing with my own words about CCM. But not now, for the moment I will leave the subject here because of several reasons, sometime I will come back and post something.

I don't have anything against kevin, TRC or Mrs W, but I do think its intresting that are always the ones who are trying to approve CCM. But anyway, I don't have anything against you, I don't agree with you guys, I respect and in this moment I think whatever I say or you guys say its going to go in circles and circles, maybe later, we ll see!

Greetings from the island!
Shalom!

[futurehope]

Thanks guys. And, truth of the matter is, we probably don't agree on music 100%. The biggest thing I hope people reallize is that OUR opinions don't matter and we aren't to judge good and evil with words of men but only by the Word of God and what it says.

[futurehope]

I will like to say clearly since the beggining of my thesis, that I am 100% against CCM. If tehre si something that is destroying churches its called CCM. Braking bareers of doctrine and braking bareers of holiness.

Not trying to rail on you or anything Bro. Diego, but I want you to put all of this in perspective. You have blamed CCM for destroying churches. CCM neither lives or breathes, yet you place blame on it. That is no different than blaming a gun for murder.

People who choose to blatantly disregard the teachings of the Lord and follow after worldly and sinful lifestyles are what should be blamed. Pastors who fail to lead their flock are to blame; Preachers who have failed to preach the truth and love of God are to blame;Christians who look to music for their excitement instead of the Lord are to blame; but music - it has made none of the decisions and doesn't even have a conscience - it is controlled by man. The man is to blame, not the misused tool.

If people make music a God, or use it to exhalt themselves, or others, it's not the musics fault - it's the peoples. What you fail to realize is that men can do the same thing (exhault themselves and the music instead of God) with traditional hymns as they can do with CCM - I've seen it.

7- Because I can't imagine Jesus jumping, screaming, and doing all teh silly things that 99% of the CCMusicians do in there concerts.

I don't know that you meant to say this the way you did, but just remember, Jesus is not something or someone you should try to imagine. While I agree with you that many of these musicians do quite foolish things - and certainly for themselves and not God - we must be careful about how we look at things. First, not all musicians that have been considered in with CCM do these foolish type acts. Second, like I said, Christ is not a figment of your imagination and should never be placed there.

[kevinmiller]

I think this is good proof that there are CCM musicians that aren't anything like those who are against CCM like to portray them as. This is a devotional on youtube by Mark Hall, the lead vocalist of Casting Crowns.

[tube]FTNL_wi_TUs[/tube]

[HappyChristian]

Kevin, that was good. But I still don't like their music. :Green

[futurehope]

Really, the biggest problem is that many people try to lump all CCM together. There is a great deal of CCM that is acceptable to God according to His word and there is a much, much greater amount of CCM that is not acceptable according to God's word. Many fundamentalists (and I am one too) flaw in discerning by song or artist and just call it all bad. That's where the problem really is. On the same note, some people say that any and every bit of music that someone wants to call "Christian" is okay. And that's the other problem - when people choose to have no discernment at all. While I really dislike the saying about having balances in things (because many people use it as an excuse for sin) it's true when it comes to God's word and discernment. Many things have to be brought into the equation to properly discern good and evil as Satan will try to mimic Christ to mislead people with his wiles. So, to avoid it all together, some just say it's all bad. I can't blame them for wanting to err on the side of caution if they're going to, but it also ends up trying to rob themselves and others of blessings. Others throw themselves to the world with their lack of discernment. So, again, balances.

[HappyChristian]

Really' date=' the biggest problem is that many people try to lump all CCM together. There is a great deal of CCM that is acceptable to God according to His word and there is a much, much greater amount of CCM that is not acceptable according to God's word. Many fundamentalists (and I am one too) flaw in discerning by song or artist and just call it all bad. That's where the problem really is. On the same note, some people say that any and every bit of music that someone wants to call "Christian" is okay. And that's the other problem - when people choose to have no discernment at all. While I really dislike the saying about having balances in things (because many people use it as an excuse for sin) it's true when it comes to God's word and discernment. Many things have to be brought into the equation to properly discern good and evil as Satan will try to mimic Christ to mislead people with his wiles. So, to avoid it all together, some just say it's all bad. I can't blame them for wanting to err on the side of caution if they're going to, but it also ends up trying to rob themselves and others of blessings. Others throw themselves to the world with their lack of discernment. So, again, balances.[/quote']
:goodpost

The only thing I might slightly disagree with would be the assumption that if someone wants to err on the side of caution they would end up robbing themselves of a blessing. The reason I don't completely agree with this is that people don't have to listen to CCM to be blessed in their music, KWIM? I don't listen to it because I don't like the majority of it...much of it sounds too much like what I left behind when I was 19 and got things right with the Lord. There are some songs that have fantastic words to them, but I can't stand the "breathy" way most of the performers sing. It doesn't create a worshipful feel to me (for lack of a better description). But! There are many hymns and other songs that do bless me. KWIM?

[futurehope]

Fair enough. I guess, though the way I wrote it makes it seem that way, I wasn't referring to music so much when I said that. Sorry, I just started another post and that's kind of where my mind was when I wrote that. I know what you mean with the "breathy" ones, and a lot of them are simply performers for themselves.


What does KWIM mean?

[Guest Guest]

Fair enough. I guess, though the way I wrote it makes it seem that way, I wasn't referring to music so much when I said that. Sorry, I just started another post and that's kind of where my mind was when I wrote that. I know what you mean with the "breathy" ones, and a lot of them are simply performers for themselves.


What does KWIM mean?

I think it means "Know what I mean?" :cool

[HappyChristian]

Fair enough. I guess, though the way I wrote it makes it seem that way, I wasn't referring to music so much when I said that. Sorry, I just started another post and that's kind of where my mind was when I wrote that. I know what you mean with the "breathy" ones, and a lot of them are simply performers for themselves.


What does KWIM mean?

No, I didn't think it was just applied to music, but since that's the topic of the thread, I didn't want to hijack with other comparisons. :saint

And KJBP is right - KWIM means know what I mean...something I find myself saying often at times because even I'm not sure I understand what I'm explaining. KWIM? :Green