Hell's Compartments: Then, Now, and In the Future.

[MJW]

3 hours ago, John Young said:

As to Psalms 139:15 David is not referring to his formation in the womb but rather to his "substance". His elements in the earth formed by God long before he was conceived that would one day make up his body. Psalm 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. As to Isaiah 51:1 that is a figurative allusion, but not of a womb, but of a rock quarry.

Such denial I see in this thread. Seems many of you are offended by the Word of God.

To take such a beautiful notion of a baby forming in the womb and dumbing it all down and stripping it of any creative process is telling.

All because the idea of Hell being related to the Womb are offensive to you. Thus a great effort is made to change this into something palatable.

We aren't talking 'elements formed long ago', we are talking about the formation of a Human Being...

WROUGHT, pret. and pp. of work. raut.

1. Worked; formed by work or labor; as wrought iron.

BTW...

The Book is DNA.

Long before Man discovered that DNA was a book in which all of our Members are written, the Bible had it all laid out in specific detail...

 

7 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Sorry, but Jesus didn't say, "And, as he slept..."

So Jesus never said the dead are sleeping?

Uh, OK?

[MJW]

5 hours ago, DaveW said:

The KJV has absolutely no indication that the account of the rich man and Lazarus was a dream in any way. It is stated as a factual, real event experienced personally by these two men.

These two notions are not mutually exclusive.

Again, the dead are sleeping.

Sleeping implies dreaming.

3 hours ago, John Young said:

Because nowhere in the text does it say its referring figuratively to the womb...

Nowhere in the Bible does it say "There were two compartments in Hell".

See? I can play that game too.

[DaveW]

2 minutes ago, MJW said:

These two notions are not mutually exclusive.

Again, the dead are sleeping.

Sleeping implies dreaming.

Aaaahhhh- actually they are in this case.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to suggest the rich man nor Lazarus was either asleep or dreaming in the passage.

This a concept that you have entirely imposed onto the passage, for it is not found in the passage.

[MJW]

3 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

No it isn't. You may want to do a word study on what all "the lowest parts of the earth" can (and does) refer to. However, I will tell you this...not once does "womb" get mentioned.

John 8:23
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world"

Oh look. We come from 'beneath'.

I know, I know. I'm not allowed to take that verse literal because it's too uncomfortable to think about right?

So let's here everyone's version of "a better translation would have been".

Or how about "what Jesus really meant to say was".

[DaveW]

I wonder, since you have been back on here at half an hour if you wouldn't mind answering my question in your intro please?

I am interested in the answers there.

Thanks.

2 minutes ago, MJW said:

John 8:23
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world"

Oh look. We come from 'beneath'.

I know, I know. I'm not allowed to take that verse literal because it's too uncomfortable to think about right?

So let's here everyone's version of "a better translation would have been".

Or how about "what Jesus really meant to say was".

Can I just say, personally your attitude doesn't seem great. You are using language which is not respectful and which has an aggressive tone to it.

Can I suggest that you tone it back and speak with a little more reserve and respect?

 

[MJW]

3 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Jerry has already answered you on this, but I would like to ask you to read the next two verses. They explain what is meant by "the dead knowing nothing"...which Jerry explained.

His explanation was false in my humble opinion.

Both dead and alive 'know nothing' which means this is not about worldly affairs.

It's about all being ignorant until the Day of the Lord comes.

Do you know what the word Shadow means in Scripture?

Hint...

Hebrews 8:5
"Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount"

It is a three dimensional representation of a fourth dimensional construct.

New Jerusalem is in the shape of a Tessaract BTW...

[Salyan]

30 minutes ago, MJW said:

Right...

In other words, Abraham was this evil tyrant who kept prisoners in his bosom. Jesus had to rescue them..

What?? That is a ridiculous suggestion to make. I know you’re trying to make a (wrong) point,  but please don’t butcher interpretation on purpose.

Abraham was one of the righteous dead. If our interpretation is correct, then he too had to wait for Jesus’ work of salvation to be complete in order to go to heaven. That means he was waiting in Hades too.  

Abraham is referenced in the Bible as being the father of those that believe through faith. As such, and especially as that period of waiting took place when his descendants the Jews were the vast majority of the righteous dead,  it makes sense that he would be referred to with a position of… Leadership? honor?  Either could be implied by that reference. 

Finally, whenever the Bible refers to someone’s bosom in that way, it’s always talking of a place of care and protection - never of captivity. 

[MJW]

5 minutes ago, DaveW said:

I wonder, since you have been back on here at half an hour if you wouldn't mind answering my question in your intro please?

I am interested in the answers there.

Thanks.

Can I just say, personally your attitude doesn't seem great. You are using language which is not respectful and which has an aggressive tone to it.

Can I suggest that you tone it back and speak with a little more reserve and respect?

 

Sorry Dave! I apologize if I sound aggressive. I really have no ego or axes to grind.

I hesitate to give out personal info because there is very high chance many will use it against me.

But if I must...

My favorite Pastors are Michael Hoggard and Charles Lawson.

I go to their online Church almost on a daily basis and listen to every sermon I can get my hands on.

Unfortunately, as far as a 'brick and mortar' facility is concerned, it's slim pickings where I live.

Most Churches don't use the KJV and corruption is at a high level.

[No Nicolaitans]

29 minutes ago, MJW said:

Right...

In other words, Abraham was this evil tyrant who kept prisoners in his bosom.

Didn't "someone" here have a nervous-jerkdown and whine about someone bearing false-witness against him? Yet, you wrongly accuse me by insinuating my words allude to this silliness? 

 

25 minutes ago, MJW said:

The Book is DNA.

Long before Man discovered that DNA was a book in which all of our Members are written, the Bible had it all laid out in specific detail...

How about an actual link to the book and author so that we can see where you're deriving your information.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness or Seventh Day Adventist?

[MJW]

6 minutes ago, Salyan said:

Finally, whenever the Bible refers to someone’s bosom in that way, it’s always talking of a place of care and protection - never of captivity. 

I completely agree. This is the point I'm making.

So I guess my question is, why is the phrase 'led captivity captive' being interpreted as being captive in Abraham's Bosom here in this thread?

[MJW]

5 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

How about an actual link to the book and author so that we can see where you're deriving your information.

It is well known that DNA is like a book in which all our members are written...

DNA or deoxyribonucleic acid is a long molecule that contains our unique genetic code. Like a recipe book it holds the instructions for making all the proteins in our bodies. 

https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-dna

5 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Are you a Jehovah's Witness or Seventh Day Adventist?

No.

[Salyan]

7 minutes ago, MJW said:

I completely agree. This is the point I'm making.

So I guess my question is, why is the phrase 'led captivity captive' being interpreted as being captive in Abraham's Bosom here in this thread?

They were there because they were still held captive by sin, in a sense.  It was sin that prevented them from you directly going to heaven with God, until Christ’s sacrifice for sin was complete. Is that captivity – of sin — that Christ had victory over.

 

 

[No Nicolaitans]

14 minutes ago, MJW said:

His explanation was false in my humble opinion.

Both dead and alive 'know nothing' which means this is not about worldly affairs.

It's about all being ignorant until the Day of the Lord comes.

Do you know what the word Shadow means in Scripture?

Hint...

Hebrews 8:5
"Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount"

It is a three dimensional representation of a fourth dimensional construct.

New Jerusalem is in the shape of a Tessaract BTW...

So...you didn't read the next two verses then?

We can all be one-verse ponies if we want. Here's one for you...after reading this, I would expect that you...

1. Don't touch anything

2. Don't eat or drink anything

3. Don't use your hands for anything

Colossians 2:21  (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

There it is in black and white. It says what it says. Do you believe it?

[MJW]

On 9/17/2016 at 3:51 AM, John Young said:

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men

The 'Captive' is all of Mankind, beginning with the Fetus.

Jesus descends into the Wombs of many pregnant Mothers and gives gifts and preaches to them...

Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers"

This is what is meant by preaching to those in prison.

Paul specifically mentions this fact in the very first verse...

Ephesians 4:1
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called"

Here we see another example of this preaching to the prisoners...

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations"

The above verse matches with Ephesians 4:11.

[No Nicolaitans]

Oh dear...I give up.

I'll say this...MJW is interesting.

Carry on.