Anyone got a problem with this?

[bzmomo7]

A scenario my husband recently heard about. This was from a conservative.:

Person: I know I am not saved because I do not feel sorry for the ?sins? I commit. How sorry would I need to feel?


Preacher: ?Being sorry has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It is an instantaneous event. When you believe/trust it is complete. Later on sanctification occurs where you become more Christ like and change your ways but being saved doesn?t remove the sin desires from us?.

[HappyChristian]

Lack of sorrow indicates lack of repentence ("godly sorrow worketh repentance"). The pastor's last statement is partly correct - all of our sinful desires aren't removed at salvation, but we have the Holy Spirit inside us to begin the work of making us more like Christ. But he definitely didn't help that person!!!!

[bzmomo7]

Lack of sorrow indicates lack of repentence ("godly sorrow worketh repentance"). The pastor's last statement is partly correct - all of our sinful desires aren't removed at salvation' date=' but we have the Holy Spirit inside us to begin the work of making us more like Christ. But he definitely didn't help that person!!!![/quote']

No, he obviously didn't help him at all. The thing that scares me and my hubby to death, is that we think that there are a lot of other "conservative Christians" out there that would not have a problem with what he told him either, because like you said, it is PARTLY correct.

[HappyChristian]

I think you're right! There is a major lack of discernment in Christianity today - and it's because of lack of knowledge of God's Word!

[pneu-engine]

A scenario my husband recently heard about. This was from a conservative.:

Person: I know I am not saved because I do not feel sorry for the ?sins? I commit. How sorry would I need to feel?


Preacher: ?Being sorry has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It is an instantaneous event. When you believe/trust it is complete. Later on sanctification occurs where you become more Christ like and change your ways but being saved doesn?t remove the sin desires from us?.

This is the very situation that I keep coming back to in my emphasis on revisiting the repentance issue. I know an awful lot of people who............

***"prayed the prayer" in the "repeat after me" procedure and now think they are saved. (they very well may NOT be saved).

***Accepted the "Easy Believism" basis for salvation and never dealt with the sin issue.

***Taught and accepted the Romans Road to salvation and left it go at that. Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8, 10:9,10 and 10:13 are all very good verses but no-where in those verses is the call to repent. The Romans road is not bad in itself it just doesn't go far enough.

A good case examle of this is found in Joshua 24.

[Wilchbla]

Honestly, how many folks are remorseful of their sins when they get saved? Especially young people. I don't see anything that says Christ won't save you unless you are remorseful. Whosever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Why do people always want to add more to this?

[candlelight]

Lack of sorrow indicates lack of repentence ("godly sorrow worketh repentance"). The pastor's last statement is partly correct - all of our sinful desires aren't removed at salvation' date=' but we have the Holy Spirit inside us to begin the work of making us more like Christ. But he definitely didn't help that person!!!![/quote']


Wichbla... HC, said it above. This one, two, three...* POOF *... you are saved?! That is "easy-believism" and it is truly dangerous. An example, of a child getting saved, would be rebellion against their parents. Now, we all rebel, of course; however, the child makes that decision to confess that sin (that God has laid on their heart) and they try to live according to God's Word. Of course, they will fail. The flesh lives in all of us. The point is, though, that they have confessed that sin to God and repentance has begun in their heart. Thus, the child "trys" to live according to what the Holy Spirit is doing in their heart.

In Christ,

Molly

[Wilchbla]

"Whoesever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Not, "whosever shall remorsefully call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

[Annie]

"Whoesever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Not, "whosever shall remorsefully call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Wilchbla, I agree that the emotion of sorrow is not required for salvation. I do think it is a natural (but not necessary) byproduct of true repentance. Nowhere does Scripture say that we are required to "feel" anything in order to become a child of God. Requiring someone to "feel" a certain way is just setting him up for failure, since a person cannot generally "emote" on command. Everyone's personality is so different.

That said, I do believe that a person who does not sense the convicting work of the Holy Spirit in his life should question whether or not he is truly a child of God (Heb. 12). It's not JUST an emotion, or feeling. It's the real, live convicting, chastening hand of God that all believers experience.

If I had been counseling the person described in the OP, I would have asked him more questions and made fewer assumptions. Questions like, "What do you mean that you don't "feel sorry" for your sin?" It is a mistake to assume that a person who describes himself as not "feeling sorry" for his sin is definitely not a believer. More probing questions should be asked, and the Scripture should be opened to help shed light on the situation. The answer to this person's problem cannot be arrived at in a short, trite, glib conversation.

[Revelation3:20]

Honestly, how many folks are remorseful of their sins when they get saved? Especially young people. I don't see anything that says Christ won't save you unless you are remorseful. Whosever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Why do people always want to add more to this?

How can God save you unless you realize you have come short of the glory of God and have a sin problem? When you do realize your sin if your not sorry for it how are you going to truly desire salvation from it? Easy believism takes those who are dead in sins without conviction from the Holy Spirit, deep down they don't even understand sin is problem, and it tells them that if they say a few words they are going to be ok. They do so and go on with their lives two fold more a child of hell. It isn't any better than baptizing infants and teaching them as they get older they are saved by that. Emotion doesn't equal salvation, but if you don't understand a need for salvation how can you be saved and if you do understand your need and accept him one would think that it would produce some sort of emotion at the very least inwardly.

If I had been counseling the person described in the OP, I would have asked him more questions and made fewer assumptions. Questions like, "What do you mean that you don't "feel sorry" for your sin?" It is a mistake to assume that a person who describes himself as not "feeling sorry" for his sin is definitely not a believer. More probing questions should be asked, and the Scripture should be opened to help shed light on the situation. The answer to this person's problem cannot be arrived at in a short, trite, glib conversation.

True. He may be saying he doesn't feel sorry about sin because he may think if he was truly sorry he wouldn't struggle with it. The very fact that he is worried enough to ask about it indicates he may indeed be sorry over it. As you say this would take an actual conversation with the person to get a feel for the situation. I wouldn't condemn the pastor without a better understanding of the situation, but I would certainly be reluctant to try to convince a person that said they knew they weren't saved that they were. Perhaps if I knew the person well and they showed the fruits of the Spirit and I knew that they were depressed I might say something along the lines of what the pastor did, otherwise no.

[bzmomo7]

Reading through the posts, maybe we can go back and answer the question: "How sorry does one have to be in order to be saved"? Maybe this is not a good comparison, but when I look at my kids when they've done wrong......sometimes I see different things. For instance,

...the 8yr. old whacks his 5yr. old brother because he took something of his. In light of his infraction, and impending punishment, the 8yr. old and I will have a little chat. I don't want ill feeling between him and his brother or between him and I. I love him very much, and I will communicate that to him but I also WANT him to not only acknowledge that what he did was wrong, I want him to be sorry for it. I want him to agree in his heart that HE believes that hitting his brother is wrong. I also expect an apology. I don't just want lip service of a barely audible and grouchy sounding "sorry" to his brother and I, I want him to mean it! I also want to know that he is sorry enough that, (even though I do not expect perfection), that he will try hard not to hit his brother again. So, you see sometimes the situation works out great, and I can see the child is truly sorry for what they've done, and their sibling forgives them--life goes on until the next learning situation. Sometimes, however, I've seen a child who is truly SORRY, oh boy, is he sorry he got caught! Oh, and he's so very sorry that he will need to be disciplined--(you better believe there have been times like those!) but there was obviously no sorrow over what the child had done. I dread those moments because I know the behavior is going to continue until that child changes their mind and sees that what they did was wrong.

And so it goes, I'm sure this is a can of worms.........how sorry does one have to be for their sin to be saved?

[Annie]

And so it goes' date=' I'm sure this is a can of worms.........how sorry does one have to be for their sin to be saved?[/quote']
How "sorry" does the Bible say that one HAS to be in order to be saved? Does the Scripture even use that terminology? If it doesn't, then requiring "sorrow" or "remorse" in order to be saved is adding works to salvation. It is requiring more than the Bible does, and is therefore a form of heresy. (Notice I said "if." If anyone can point to a Scripture which indicates that "sorrow" (or "remorse") is necessary for salvation, then you'll have the answer to your question.)

[Revelation3:20]

Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

How is God going to save someone that isn't sorry for their sin if he will not even listen to them?

Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Psalm 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.

Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Notice he called for those that feared God to accept Christ. Proverbs says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

This last verse is not dealing with salvation as we usually speak of it since Paul was speaking to believers, but the principle is still true regarding the lost.

[Annie]

Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart' date=' the Lord will not hear me:[/u']

How is God going to save someone that isn't sorry for their sin if he will not even listen to them?

What is missing from this verse is any reference to any emotion, let alone sorrow/remorse.

Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Psalm 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.

Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Notice he called for those that feared God to accept Christ. Proverbs says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Great verses...but again, no reference to sorrow/remorse for sin.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

This last verse is not dealing with salvation as we usually speak of it since Paul was speaking to believers, but the principle is still true regarding the lost.

Yes. Paul was talking about "making them sorry with a letter" (verse 8). His words made them sorrow unto repentance. You are correct that this is not referring to salvation, but to renewed zeal. In short, this statement by Paul acknowledges that godly sorrow is a good thing, and is a motivation for repentance. But it does not make sorrow (the emotion) a requirement for salvation.

I'll put it this way. If a person asks, "How sorry must I be in order to be saved?" I would tell him he is asking the wrong question. He is basing his salvation on a work, an emotion--not upon the objective truth that Jesus atoned for his sins. Certainly, feeling sorrow over sin is not out of place; on the contrary, it is quite appropriate--even expected--as a byproduct of conviction and a motivation for repentance. But it is not the central element. A person can repent--can admit that he is wrong--without "a certain amount" of emotion. (How is that measured, anyway?) It is foolish to focus on the (arbitrary) "amount of sorrow" as the defining element of a person's salvation. It opens the door for severe, unnecessary doubting later on: "Was I sorry enough?" "Did I feel badly enough?" "What if I didn't really feel remorse over sin?" The truth is that the closer we get to having the mind of Christ, the more we begin to realize just how much we hate our sin, and what our sin cost our Savior. Our sorrow for sin is generally greater down the road with Jesus than it is at our first meeting with Him, IMO.

[Revelation3:20]

What is regarding iniquity? It is NOT being sorry for it. It is impossible to to truly understand sin and NOT be sorry for it and still get saved at that point. Why? because the heart would still be turned toward satan instead of God. The person would essentially be calling God a liar. That is why God said even the prayers of those who are rejecting his word are an abomination. Their hearts are not turned to him. While I would never attempt to set some arbitrary level of sorrow needed before salvation I am confident that anyone who has never felt any godly sorrow for their sin has never repented and is as lost as he or she can be.