The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11

[MountainChristian]

There are examples of people who died twice in the Scriptures, old and new Testaments. 

[Genevanpreacher]

On 7/6/2016 at 2:19 AM, Ronda said:

l revisited this thread because there is currently a Bible study on this topic in another group I belong to.  I appreciate pastor Markle's questions to brother "Invicta".  However it's been almost a month now and there has been no answer to his sincere questions. (I never did get a sensible answer to several of mine) How a church could physically lie in the street, how 7 churches got whittled down to two - (and which two?). I also have to wonder (with that viewpoint) about verses 8-9 wherein it states that their dead bodies shall lie in the street for 3.5 days and won't be put in graves (paraphrasing)... and yet part of his answer was that it wasn't 3.5 days, but 3.5 years AND no answer as to how a (supposedly) 2 churches dead bodies weren't put into a graves but instead lied in the street (he claimed not just for 3.5 days but for 3.5 years).... so many more nonsensical answers about these questions...  

I would hazard to guess there won't be a satisfactory answer forthcoming by brother "Invicta" to Pastor Markle's sincere questions. If we get one, it will likely be a quote from something mankind wrote (a third party mankind opinion on the subject - not an original answer).  Not poking fun at the brother himself... but the answer(s) itself was very hard to follow, and not scripturally sound.

Just a quick comment here -

A church CAN lie in a street, Rhonda, for unless you have been taught contrary to sound Biblical teaching, a church is a body of believers - physical humans - not buildings.

[wretched]

3 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Just a quick comment here -

A church CAN lie in a street, Rhonda, for unless you have been taught contrary to sound Biblical teaching, a church is a body of believers - physical humans - not buildings.

Well this is a meaningless point in the context of the discussion. Any reasonably thinking Christian would use their God given common sense to know this passage is not talking about a pair of churches. 2 witnesses and or 2 Prophets which they are referred to in the same context does not translate to "churches" period.....ever.

 

[Jim_Alaska]

4 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Just a quick comment here -

A church CAN lie in a street, Rhonda, for unless you have been taught contrary to sound Biblical teaching, a church is a body of believers - physical humans - not buildings.

GP, this is just plain nonsense, not worthy of sound IFB teaching at all. Your reply, which I quoted, is why I wrote the following previously in this thread:

When Christians decide to not follow the plain teaching of God's Word, it is then that one error leads to another. Proper Bible Hermeneutics demands a literal interpretation of Scripture unless there is solid evidence that a passage contains hidden spiritual truths. Sister Ronda touched on this precept adequately in her reply.

Many make the mistake of trying to "read between the lines" and in doing so, come up with meanings of Scriptures that are not truly in the text. This is not to say that there are not spiritual meanings behind plain text, there certainly are in some cases. This is where proper Bible hermeneutics comes in.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

[Genevanpreacher]

19 hours ago, wretched said:

Well this is a meaningless point in the context of the discussion.

 

19 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

GP, this is just plain nonsense, not worthy of sound IFB teaching at all.

Thanks guys.

You will notice in my previous comment that I neither agreed nor disagreed with the subject going on here.

Lest you forgot -

23 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Just a quick comment here -

A church CAN lie in a street, Rhonda, for unless you have been taught contrary to sound Biblical teaching, a church is a body of believers - physical humans - not buildings.

See?

I was answering a question that obviously was not answered according to Rhonda's original question which no one was giving her.

On 7/6/2016 at 2:19 AM, Ronda said:

(I never did get a sensible answer to several of mine) How a church could physically lie in the street...

AND no answer as to how a (supposedly) 2 churches dead bodies weren't put into a graves but instead lied in the street...

So no fellas, I have done neither of your 'thrilling' comments.

Thanks anyway.

[wretched]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 4:02 PM, MountainChristian said:

There are examples of people who died twice in the Scriptures, old and new Testaments. 

Excellent point BTW MC.

I think most realize that Elijah will be one of the witnesses, no doubt. The second IMO will be Moses most likely. This is based on the types of miracles God performs through them during the Trib which match the miracles God worked through them in the OT.

[Ukulelemike]

28 minutes ago, wretched said:

Excellent point BTW MC.

I think most realize that Elijah will be one of the witnesses, no doubt. The second IMO will be Moses most likely. This is based on the types of miracles God performs through them during the Trib which match the miracles God worked through them in the OT.

I see the logic there, but that's assuming that God has to use the same people to perform similar miracles. God can perform miracles through whomever He chooses. However, since scripture does say that Elijah will come to prepare the way before Christ's return, it would make sense that one of them was Elijah. I know that Jesus declared John the Baptist to have come in the spirit of Elijah, but I believe John was a type of Elijah, coming before Jesus' first incarnation, (for lack of a better term), but that Elijah will come before Jesus comes the second time.

As for the second, I still see no reason it could not be Enoch, the only other person in scripture that never died, since it IS appointed unto men once to die, so he is due his death. But that doesn't mean it is necessarily the case, since those left for His coming won't die but be changed.

But I, too believe it will be two literal people. I don't see any reason to hold to something else-I can see interpreting it differently, but the plain sense reading would be two people. And really, this is the difficulty of prophecy, one of the reasons there are few areas that I will be dogmatic in, because as we see in prophecies of the OT, they were chock full of symbols and allegories, while NT prophecies seem a bit more grounded in some areas, but because of the OT examples, we need to be careful, because prophecy tends to be allegory in many cases. I kind of look at much in Revelation as (possibly) being actual events, but since described from a spiritual, heavenly perspective, John may be describing the spiritual powers behind actual physical, and as such, how he sees it may not be how those on earth will see it. I mean, consider the locusts coming from the bottomless pit: how could ANYONE not see they are demonic creatures? Yet they seem to not be particularly fazed by it; that could be of course the delusion they are under, but who knows? I just don't like to rule out anything when it comes to prophecy, because we just don't really know.