Clarence Larkin - Revelation

[Invicta]

While I agree that the signs were given to the Jews, it was to the Christian Jews, and they were told to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. I see nothing to say that that tribulation was for seven years,  Many things are supposed to happen in the tribulation, A bombs etc, In fact one writer said it was the A-BOMB-ination of tribulation.  All supposition  but I would appreciate it if anyone will offer their thoughts on what will happen during the tribulation and the extent of the same.  Of Course Matt, Mark and Luke do not mention the Antichrist in their accounts. 

[Alan]

If you remember my Revelation Chapter 19-22 Study you may remember that I deliberately did not start with the 7 Year Tribulation period, but I started with Revelation Chapter 19

I am completely convinced that the church will not go through the, “time of Jacob’s trouble.” Most of Revelation 6:1-19:10 have been mangled by profit seeking saints, confused Charismatics, confused fundamentalists (Pastor Steven Anderson and Kent Hovind for example), and heretics above number.

I have pretty well stayed away from Revelation 6:1-19:10 in order to keep some resemblance of peace among the brethren in this forum. If a person wants to remain some semblance of sanity in studying prophecy I would suggest not, repeat not, watch any video put out by Pastor Steven Anderson, any Charismatic, or other sensationalist prophecy video.

As you asked a reasonable question, I will answer your question about the seven years and give a broad overview of 7 Year Tribulation Period in Revelation 6:1-19:10 And, since this thread is concerning the book on Revelation by Clarence Larkin, I will try and further limit my answers by what a person may discover by reading Larkin’s commentary. I do not want to deviate too much from this thread and if any moderator decides to curtail my answer, or this discussion, for any reason, that is acceptable with me. As the books of Mark and Luke are not mentioned by Larkin, I will not reference those two books.

To make sure that the moderators want me to continue this line of discussion on this thread, or to proceed to another thread, or to discontinue this line of discussion, I will wait another day before proceeding.

Alan

Edited October 7, 2015 by Alan
spelling

[John81]

If you remember by Revelation Chapter 19-22 Study you may remember that I deliberately did not start with the 7 Year Tribulation period, but I started with Revelation Chapter 19

I am completely convinced that the church will not go through the, “time of Jacob’s trouble.” Most of Revelation 6:1-19:10 have been mangled by profit seeking saints, confused Charismatics, confused fundamentalists (Pastor Steven Anderson and Kent Hovind for example), and heretics above number.

I have pretty well stayed away from Revelation 6:1-19:10 in order to keep some resemblance of peace among the brethren in this forum. If a person wants to remain some semblance of sanity in studying prophecy I would suggest not, repeat not, watch any video put out by Pastor Steven Anderson, any Charismatic, or other sensationalist prophecy video.

As you asked a reasonable question, I will answer your question about the seven years and give a broad overview of 7 Year Tribulation Period in Revelation 6:1-19:10 And, since this thread is concerning the book on Revelation by Clarence Larkin, I will try an further limit my answers by what a person may discover by reading Larkin’s commentary. I do not want to deviate too much from this thread and if any moderator decides to curtail my answer, or this discussion, for any reason, that is acceptable with me. As the books of Mark and Luke are not mentioned by Larkin, I will not reference those two books.

To make sure that the moderators want me to continue this line of discussion on this thread, or to proceed to another thread, or to discontinue this line of discussion, I will wait another day before proceeding.

Alan

This is your thread to direct, no need to wait for a Mod to tell you that. It would be helpful to get to some meat here and work our way through these important verses.

[Alan]

John81,

Thank you for your desire to learn. I do hope that the following study will be a help to us all.

Invicta,

I will try and be brief and to the point. I will try and answer your first question on why most fundamentalists interpret  the Tribulation Period as seven years. I am cognizant of the recent debate on Daniel 9:24-27 and I am trying my best not to continue that debate. If we disagree, we will disagree with friendship and just continue to a broad overview of Revelation 6:1-19:10

My answer to your first question will somewhat condense the material found in Larkin's book on Revelation. In that section, pages 48-52, Larkin covers this aspect of 7 years quite well and has two charts that help his explanations.

Seven Years – Time of Jacob’s Trouble

7 Year Tribulation Period

In Daniel 9:20-27 we have the vision given by the angel Gabriel to Daniel concerning the work of the Messiah the Prince. Daniel 9:24 says, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.”

These seventy weeks are weeks of years. The last week of years is a seven-year period to finish the work of the prophecy of Daniel 9:20-27[1] We need to take careful heed and realize that the Book of Revelation is a book of prophecy of the end times concerning the work of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah the prince of Daniel 9:25, Revelation 1:1 and 19:10 

Daniel 9:27 plainly states, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

The time of Jacob’s trouble, or the Tribulation Period, will be this seventieth week of seven years. At the middle of the week, the Antichrist will break the covenant with the Jews and he will cause the sacrifices to cease.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 the Apostle Paul is teaching the Thessalonian church some facts concerning the 7 Year Tribulation period. In direct reference to Daniel 9:27 Paul makes this statement concerning the Antichrist, or as Paul writes, “man of sin,” or, “the son of perdition,” “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:4

All of this is depicted in Revelation 6:1-19:10

Alan

 

---

[1] Larkin, Clarence. The Book of Revelation. 1919. Glenside, PA: Clarence Larkin Estate, n.d., Page 48-52

 

 

 

[Invicta]

Thanks Alan, I hope we can disagree without bitterness.  The preacher who we have this evening in one of his messages said we should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.  

The are three mentions of great tribulation in the scripture and I maintain that they are three different things.

Mt 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. This is confined to the Jews
Re 2:22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.This is confined to a particular church,   the church in Thyatira 

Re 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Those who have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb can only refer to Christians as they are the only ones  who have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  I believe that refers to all Christians who have suffered tribulation through the ages.  Whether it was through the Roman Empire, the Inquisition, Communists, N Korea etc, ISIS, or Pakistan and similar countries where Christians suffer death and torture from families, friends, or religious organisations.  And those who will suffer till Christ comes.

'Most fundamentalists' in America may interpret  the Tribulation Period as seven years. but I don't know many Christians here that do. I personally know few who would believe the pre tribulation rapture theory apart from the Brethren, which I left about 39 years ago.  One is an old friend of mine, who I only see rarely now and he is a charismatic, and has been involved in a number of strange 'churches'  over the years.  He once told me that it if it had not been for meeting me he would still have been in some of them.  The other is a strange bedfellow for you. He is a member of the Worldwide Church of God, the Armstrongite church, although they have thrown off many of the teachings of Armstrong.  They do still meet on Saturdays.  They used to follow the Jewish festivals, although he says they don't now. They used to do to Devon for two weeks to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, but now they go to the same place but call it the harvest festival. They are celebrating it now, he was there last week and this.  He started coming to our church after we did a leaflet drop one Easter.  He moved away to Folkestone a few years ago and now rarely comes on a Sunday, because it is a journey with a bus, a train and another bus, but he does come regularly to our seniors lunch on Tuesdays.  (a long way to come for lunch).  I don't know if the PTR is a teaching of the WWCOG or if it is just him, if he comes on Tuesday I will ask him.  If it is not their teaching I will have to ask him where he got it from. 

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Invicta
Added item in red

[Alan]

Thanks Alan, I hope we can disagree without bitterness.  The preacher who we have this evening in one of his messages said we should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.  

The are three mentions of great tribulation in the scripture and I maintain that they are three different things.

Mt 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. This is confined to the Jews
Re 2:22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.This is confined to a particular church,   the church in Thyatira 

Re 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Those who have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb can only refer to Christians as they are the only ones  who have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  I believe that refers to all Christians who have suffered tribulation through the ages.  Whether it was through the Roman Empire, the Inquisition, Communists, N Korea etc, ISIS, or Pakistan and similar countries where Christians suffer death and torture from families, friends, or religious organisations.  And those who will suffer till Christ comes.

'Most fundamentalists' in America may interpret  the Tribulation Period as seven years. but I don't know many Christians here that do. I personally know few who would believe the pre tribulation rapture theory apart from the Brethren, which I left about 39 years ago.  

 

Invicta,

I think I can agree with your preacher friend. I would also have to agree with you that most fundamentalists in America do interpret the Tribulation period as seven years. I am one of them.

Permit me to side-track a little bit and ask a  couple of questions to you, or anyone else.

What do most of the Reformed Baptist churches in England believe about the Tribulation Period? A brief answer would probably be sufficient if possible.

Matthew 24:21 is not only referring to the Jews but it is referring to the world-wide 7 year tribulation period. God is not only dealing with the Jews, but, He is harshly dealing with the Gentiles, "the heathen," on a world-wide scale. Please reference Micah 5 and Isaiah 34

In Micah 5 we have the prophecy of the coming Messiah, Micah 5:2, starting from Micah 5:3-15 we have the Lord dealing, on a worldwide scale, the "remnant of Jacob," being delivered out of the hand of the Gentiles, Micah 5:8, and  in Micah 5:15 we read, "And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard." This "vengeance upon the heathen," is the Tribulation Period.

Please note Micah's prophecy, "such as they have not heard." So, it was a prophecy that has not been fulfilled up to our day. It is a direct reference to the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:21, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." This prophecy of Micah, and the Lord Jesus, has never been fulfilled. Nor was it fulfilled in 70 A.D., nor in any war after that time. It will be fulfilled during the days of Revelation 6:1-19:10

In Isaiah 34:1-10 we read of the seven year Tribulation Period is concerned with the inhabitants of the whole earth; and the conclusion. Isaiah 34:1 and 2 state, "Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter." The destruction of the armies of the nations, the whole earth, is accomplished in Revelation 19:11-21 at the coming of the Lord Jesus as, "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." Isaiah rightly describes this battle as a, "slaughter."

Here is my link to that particular lesson dealing with Revelation 19:11-21: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=2

Revelation 2:22 This is a prophecy concerning one local church, going through one local period of tribulation. As you mentioned, it was confined to this one church and not on a world-wide scale. All through the history of the church age there has been persecution, or local tribulation, for churches. Not only did the Thyatira church go through local persecution but also so did the Smyrna church, Revelation 2:9. In both of these instances it was local persecution against the saints. It was not worldwide tribulation. 

Throughout the ages individual churches, and individual saints, have suffered tribulation, or persecution, for their faith. So, this applies to all of us throughout the ages. "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12

Permit me to interject a wonderful promise given to the  church at Philadelphia that shows this distinction between local tribulation and the world-wide tribulation. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the earth." The, "hour of temptation that shall come upon the world, to try them on the earth," is the seven year Tribulation Period. This wonderful promise was not only given to the church at Philadelphia, but, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Revelation 3:13 The "churches," plural, includes us. The "churches" will not go through the seven year Tribulation Period. 

Revelation 7:14 In Revelation 7:1-8 we have the sealing of the 144,000  virgin Jews who perform evangelistic efforts throughout the world during the seven year Tribulation period. In verse 9 we read of the results of this worldwide evangelistic effort; "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, an palms in their hands." The saints in verse 14 are in direct reference to these people who were saved due to the evangelistic efforts of the 144,000 sealed virgin Jews are Tribulation saints, not church age saints. To limit only the church age saints as being washed in the blood of the Lamb is an error. All of the saints, in all of the ages, will have blood washed robes.

The scriptures are very clear that these saints are, "...These are they which came out of great tribulation...." They are not church age saints.

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

[Invicta]

Invicta,

I think I can agree with your preacher friend. I would also have to agree with you that most fundamentalists in America do interpret the Tribulation period as seven years. I am one of them.

Permit me to side-track a little bit and ask a  couple of questions to you, or anyone else.

What do most of the Reformed Baptist churches in England believe about the Tribulation Period? A brief answer would probably be sufficient if possible.

I have no Idea.  Our church is a reformed Evangelical Church which is Baptist in practice. We do not have a policy on the matter, after all it is only a interpretation not a bible doctrine..  Many forget that as they have been indoctrinated into it over many years.  Most Baptists I believe would follow the teaching of Hendriksen.  Not sure what he teaches but it seems that they believe that the book of revelation consists of seven parallel prophecies each covering the whole church history.  Ian (Covenanter) would have been the person to ask because he used to teach that before he became a preterist.  They would be Grace Baptists, Our church leaders want us to associate with the Grace Baptist Association South East, but  some members disagree. I would not agree if they insisted on any interpretation of the future, because as as said to one pastor i disagreed with "We can't all be right, but we can all be wrong," 

Matthew 24:21 is not only referring to the Jews but it is referring to the world-wide 7 year tribulation period. God is not only dealing with the Jews, but, He is harshly dealing with the Gentiles, "the heathen," on a world-wide scale. Please reference Micah 5 and Isaiah 34

Oh Dear, Oh Dear, Alan. While I was 'on vacation' recently, I studied Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 and came to the conclusion that everyone, including me, have only read these on the surface and not looked deeply into it.  No way can the GT of that time can be worldwide. Forget what you have been indoctrinated with, as I did, and read the scriptures carefully.  It doesn't help to take OT prophecies and apply them in the wrong place.  I don't want to make a long post so will try to be brief.  In Matt. 24, the disciples admired the temple stones.  At that time they had all just left the temple and heard the Lord's pronouncement of woes on the scribes and pharisees. Including the promise that their house (the temple) would be left desolate and heard him pronounce 36  Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Coming out of the temple the disciples, obviously not understanding how that could be, came to Him and shewed Him the great stones. In reply, Jesus made a statement, then the disciples asked a question, Jesus then gave an answer, there were other questions and other answers but as we would say they were slightly off topic, so if we concentrate our minds on those three points.  The statement 2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Then the question, 3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?  And the answer. 34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. All these things?  Must include the woes declared in Matt 23.

The great tribulation on Jerusalem and Judea..  15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Matthew and Mark use similar veiled language tho describe this, but Luke uses clear language. The Christians at that time would have understood, either from their reading of the Scriptures or the teaching of the Lord, But Matt and Mark would not have wanted to needlessly antagonise the Jews who had recently pledged allegiance when the said "We have no king but Caesar" by saying that the Roman armies would soon surround Jerusalem and desolate it.  Luke would have been taught, that and so writing outside Judea was able to use clear language.. The disciples were told to leave Jerusalem in a hurry  when they saw the A of D, that is when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies.  They were told to flee to the hills. They were told not to enter the country if they were outside.  None of this would help them if the tribulation was worldwide.Luke emphasises  the local  nature of the tribulation when he said "20 ¶  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies,(the A of D) then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

In Micah 5 we have the prophecy of the coming Messiah, Micah 5:2, starting from Micah 5:3-15 we have the Lord dealing, on a worldwide scale, the "remnant of Jacob," being delivered out of the hand of the Gentiles, Micah 5:8, and  in Micah 5:15 we read, "And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard." This "vengeance upon the heathen," is the Tribulation Period.

Please note Micah's prophecy, "such as they have not heard." So, it was a prophecy that has not been fulfilled up to our day. It is a direct reference to the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:21, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." This prophecy of Micah, and the Lord Jesus, has never been fulfilled. Nor was it fulfilled in 70 A.D., nor in any war after that time. It will be fulfilled during the days of Revelation 6:1-19:10

In Isaiah 34:1-10 we read of the seven year Tribulation Period is concerned with the inhabitants of the whole earth; and the conclusion. Isaiah 34:1 and 2 state, "Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter." The destruction of the armies of the nations, the whole earth, is accomplished in Revelation 19:11-21 at the coming of the Lord Jesus as, "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS." Isaiah rightly describes this battle as a, "slaughter."

Here is my link to that particular lesson dealing with Revelation 19:11-21: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=2

Revelation 2:22 This is a prophecy concerning one local church, going through one local period of tribulation. As you mentioned, it was confined to this one church and not on a world-wide scale. All through the history of the church age there has been persecution, or local tribulation, for churches. Not only did the Thyatira church go through local persecution but also so did the Smyrna church, Revelation 2:9. In both of these instances it was local persecution against the saints. It was not worldwide tribulation. 

Throughout the ages individual churches, and individual saints, have suffered tribulation, or persecution, for their faith. So, this applies to all of us throughout the ages. "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12

Permit me to interject a wonderful promise given to the  church at Philadelphia that shows this distinction between local tribulation and the world-wide tribulation. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the earth." The, "hour of temptation that shall come upon the world, to try them on the earth," is the seven year Tribulation Period. This wonderful promise was not only given to the church at Philadelphia, but, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Revelation 3:13 The "churches," plural, includes us. The "churches" will not go through the seven year Tribulation Period. 

That is a strange association of verses, and as I said nowhere does it sayh the tribulation is seven years.

Revelation 7:14 In Revelation 7:1-8 we have the sealing of the 144,000  virgin Jews who perform evangelistic efforts throughout the world during the seven year Tribulation period. In verse 9 we read of the results of this worldwide evangelistic effort; "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, an palms in their hands." The saints in verse 14 are in direct reference to these people who were saved due to the evangelistic efforts of the 144,000 sealed virgin Jews are Tribulation saints, not church age saints. To limit only the church age saints as being washed in the blood of the Lamb is an error. All of the saints, in all of the ages, will have blood washed robes.

The scriptures are very clear that these saints are, "...These are they which came out of great tribulation...." They are not church age saints.

If they are not church age saints, how can they be saints?

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Alan, I hope we can disagree without bitterness.  The preacher who we have this evening in one of his messages said we should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.  

The are three mentions of great tribulation in the scripture and I maintain that they are three different things.

Mt 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This is
Re 2:22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Re 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Invicta

[Alan]

Thank you for your reply. I will need some time to study it and to reply. I am pressed for time at this juncture so I will respond in a day or two.

[Invicta]

Thank you Alan.

 

[Alan]

Invicta,

Thank you for your information concerning the type of church you attend, Reformed Evangelical Church (Baptist), and the information concerning Hendriksen. Here is my previous post concerning Hendriksen: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23715-it-is-time/?page=3#comment-411001 If you read the post it is obvious to me that Hendriksen was in error concerning prophetic events, was not a Baptist, nor fundamental, nor independent, nor did he use the King James Version of the Bible. In my opinion, one of the reasons why a lot of the churches in England are in error concerning prophetic events is that they learned their beliefs from Hendriksen and not the scriptures.

The scriptures, as I plainly pointed out in my previous post in Isaiah 34 and Micah 5 reveal that the  7 year, (it is seven years in length), Tribulation Period is indeed a worldwide series of judgments against the nations of the whole world.

In Matthew 24 the Lord did prophesy that the Temple then standing would be destroyed. He also answered two other questions concerning His coming again and the signs given to the Jews; not to the church. The Lord's statement, verse 36, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." applies to the generation that is alive when He comes in Revelation 19:11-21 and not in 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed. All of the prophecies in Matthew 24, and the Old Testament prophecies, were not fulfilled in that generation.

Concerning the saints in Revelation 7. Two things: 1. Revelation 7 does not mention the word "saints." It lists the many people that were saved due to the ministry of the 144,000 Jews. I used the word saints as anybody, in any age, is a saint. I cannot understand why you said. "If they are not church age saints, how can they be saints."

I will continue on in the lesson on a very broad overview of Revelation 6:1-19:22 in the next post.

Alan

Edited October 10, 2015 by Alan
spelling

[Invicta]

Thank you Alan.

As I said I don't follow Hendriksen.  I don't know if any in our church do.

Hendriksen is no less wrong that Scofield who although you won'e recognize it, you follow.

But you do not address my main points that the Jewish Christians who were addressed in this discourse, were told that when they saw the abomination of desolation, that is Jerusalem surrounded by armies they were to flee to the hills as its desolation was near.  They were told that if they were outside the country they were not to enter it because the desolation thereof was near.  History tells us that all that happened.  Jewish Christians fled the city when they saw the Roman armies surrounding the city.  How did they escape?  Cestius suddenly withdrew his armies "without a reason in the world" (Josephus)  Christians fled the city but non believing Jews flocked to the city.  Nero then sent Vespasian to take over the siege, and from the time Vespasian arrived is said to be 3½ years till the fall of Jerusalem. It was 1290 days from the time that Cestius surrounded Jerusalem till the daily sacrifice failed.(Daniel 12:11)  It was 45 days from  the failure of the sacrifice till the fail of Jerusalem and its desolation.  All this is recorded in history.

None of the three evangelists mention any Antichrist being involved in any of these events.  None of them mention that the tribulation of those days are for seven years.  In fact I don't think you have addressed any of the points I raised, but only repeated your suppositions which however often repeat them does not make them true.  

[Alan]

Thank you Alan.

As I said I don't follow Hendriksen.  I don't know if any in our church do.

Hendriksen is no less wrong that Scofield who although you won'e recognize it, you follow.

But you do not address my main points that the Jewish Christians who were addressed in this discourse, were told that when they saw the abomination of desolation, that is Jerusalem surrounded by armies they were to flee to the hills as its desolation was near.  They were told that if they were outside the country they were not to enter it because the desolation thereof was near.  History tells us that all that happened.  Jewish Christians fled the city when they saw the Roman armies surrounding the city.  How did they escape?  Cestius suddenly withdrew his armies "without a reason in the world" (Josephus)  Christians fled the city but non believing Jews flocked to the city.  Nero then sent Vespasian to take over the siege, and from the time Vespasian arrived is said to be 3½ years till the fall of Jerusalem. It was 1290 days from the time that Cestius surrounded Jerusalem till the daily sacrifice failed.(Daniel 12:11)  It was 45 days from  the failure of the sacrifice till the fail of Jerusalem and its desolation.  All this is recorded in history.

None of the three evangelists mention any Antichrist being involved in any of these events.  None of them mention that the tribulation of those days are for seven years.  In fact I don't think you have addressed any of the points I raised, but only repeated your suppositions which however often repeat them does not make them true.  

Invita,

The points you raised were addressed many times and proven in error. I see no point in belaboring the issue. Your historical dissertation about the prophecy of  Daniel 12:11 being fulfilled by Vespasian, Cestius, and Neros decision, in 70 AD is in error. Also, your continual reference to Scofield as our source is not only distracting, and trying to evade clear scriptural teaching in this subject, but is used as a means to degrade my teaching. As such, it does no good to this discussion.

Again, as I clearly brought out, as with several other brethren on Online Baptist brought out, Matthew 24:36 is to be fillfilled as recorded in Revelation. To regulate the prophecy of Daniel and the prophecies in Matthew and Revelation to historical facts is a error of high magnitude.

Alan

[Alan]

Review of Clarence Larkin’s Commentary

Revelation 6:1-19:10 ‘Tribulation Overview.”

Introduction

Review by Alan

Very Important notes: At this point in our study of the prophetic events in our broad overview of Revelation 6:1-19:10 we need to make sure of six key points in the interpretation, and order of events, of prophecy:

1. “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15 “Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.” 1 Corinthians 10:32. Concerning prophecy, there are specific promises and prophesies given to the elect sons of Israel; specific prophecies concerning the unbelieving Gentile nations, and specific promises to the elect in the church of God (believing Jews and Gentiles in the Church Age).

2. “… for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 19:10

3. The prophetic prophecies by the prophets in the Old Testament concerning the restoration of Israel, the coming of the Messiah, and the times of ‘Jacob’s Trouble,’ (the Tribulation Period)and the prophesies of the Lord Jesus, particularly Matthew chapter 24 & 25, the prophecies of Paul, Peter and John are not always written in the order of sequence. The proper order of sequences of the prophecies is ‘revealed’ in the Book of Revelation. Because God is the God of order, “Let all things be done decently and in order.” 1 Corinthians 14:10, God gave us the proper order of prophetic events clearly delineated in the Book of Revelation.

4. The “Bride,” or “wife” of the Lord Jesus is the church. Ephesians 5:23-33 The reason why the church is not mentioned during the events of the Great Tribulation Period, or the ‘Times of Jacob’s trouble,’ is due to the fact that the church has been in heaven since Revelation 4:1. The church, during the Tribulation Period, Revelation chapter 6-19:24, has been being made ‘ready’ for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, Revelation 19:7-9. Almost without exception, every bride, in every country, in every age, is secretly taken away to be made ‘ready’ for her marriage. In Revelation 4:1 The church was secretly taken out of the world at the ‘Rapture,’ in order to be made ‘ready’ for her bridegroom.

This being made ‘ready’ is primarily a reference to the cleansing of heretical doctrine in the church and the giving of rewards to the Church Age saints at the, ‘Judgment Seat of Christ,’ as spoken by Paul in Romans 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 3:8-15, and 2 Corinthians 5:10. Salvation and service are two different aspects in the Christian life.

Paul wrote this testimony shortly before his death, “For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.” 2 Timothy 4:6

5. We will make occasional reference to the charts in Clarence Larkin’s commentary as required.

6. The Tribulation Period is a time when  God judges the nations of the world as recorded in Isaiah 34 and Micah 5

Alan

Edited October 10, 2015 by Alan
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[Invicta]

Invita,

The points you raised were addressed many times and proven in error. I see no point in belaboring the issue. Your historical dissertation about the prophecy of  Daniel 12:11 being fulfilled by Vespasian, Cestius, and Neros decision, in 70 AD is in error. Also, your continual reference to Scofield as our source is not only distracting, and trying to evade clear scriptural teaching in this subject, but is used as a means to degrade my teaching. As such, it does no good to this discussion.

Again, as I clearly brought out, as with several other brethren on Online Baptist brought out, Matthew 24:36 is to be fillfilled as recorded in Revelation. To regulate the prophecy of Daniel and the prophecies in Matthew and Revelation to historical facts is a error of high magnitude.

Alan

You are still avoiding the facts in the evangelists that the tribulation they describe was local and not worldwide.  Seven years id not mentioned, neither is an antichrist.  Try not to prove your point by keep repeating "You are in error" as if that is proved.  Just try to concentrate on the points I have made and give an answer to those from these scriptures.  Despite what you say you have not given an answer using those scriptures.  Just to recap.  When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies flee to the hills.  If you are outside the country, don't return. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies know that ITS desolation is near.  I know the Brethren taught that Luke was speaking about a different event than Matthew, but that is untenable.  

As an aside.  Our church secretary, was taken to hospital yesterday with a suspected blood clot on his lung.  (He would believe as you do.) 

 

[Alan]

I do hope that your church secretary gets well.