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Alan

Clarence Larkin - Revelation

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Thank you Alan.

As I said I don't follow Hendriksen.  I don't know if any in our church do.

Hendriksen is no less wrong that Scofield who although you won'e recognize it, you follow.

But you do not address my main points that the Jewish Christians who were addressed in this discourse, were told that when they saw the abomination of desolation, that is Jerusalem surrounded by armies they were to flee to the hills as its desolation was near.  They were told that if they were outside the country they were not to enter it because the desolation thereof was near.  History tells us that all that happened.  Jewish Christians fled the city when they saw the Roman armies surrounding the city.  How did they escape?  Cestius suddenly withdrew his armies "without a reason in the world" (Josephus)  Christians fled the city but non believing Jews flocked to the city.  Nero then sent Vespasian to take over the siege, and from the time Vespasian arrived is said to be 3½ years till the fall of Jerusalem. It was 1290 days from the time that Cestius surrounded Jerusalem till the daily sacrifice failed.(Daniel 12:11)  It was 45 days from  the failure of the sacrifice till the fail of Jerusalem and its desolation.  All this is recorded in history.

None of the three evangelists mention any Antichrist being involved in any of these events.  None of them mention that the tribulation of those days are for seven years.  In fact I don't think you have addressed any of the points I raised, but only repeated your suppositions which however often repeat them does not make them true.  

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Thank you Alan.

As I said I don't follow Hendriksen.  I don't know if any in our church do.

Hendriksen is no less wrong that Scofield who although you won'e recognize it, you follow.

But you do not address my main points that the Jewish Christians who were addressed in this discourse, were told that when they saw the abomination of desolation, that is Jerusalem surrounded by armies they were to flee to the hills as its desolation was near.  They were told that if they were outside the country they were not to enter it because the desolation thereof was near.  History tells us that all that happened.  Jewish Christians fled the city when they saw the Roman armies surrounding the city.  How did they escape?  Cestius suddenly withdrew his armies "without a reason in the world" (Josephus)  Christians fled the city but non believing Jews flocked to the city.  Nero then sent Vespasian to take over the siege, and from the time Vespasian arrived is said to be 3½ years till the fall of Jerusalem. It was 1290 days from the time that Cestius surrounded Jerusalem till the daily sacrifice failed.(Daniel 12:11)  It was 45 days from  the failure of the sacrifice till the fail of Jerusalem and its desolation.  All this is recorded in history.

None of the three evangelists mention any Antichrist being involved in any of these events.  None of them mention that the tribulation of those days are for seven years.  In fact I don't think you have addressed any of the points I raised, but only repeated your suppositions which however often repeat them does not make them true.  

Invita,

The points you raised were addressed many times and proven in error. I see no point in belaboring the issue. Your historical dissertation about the prophecy of  Daniel 12:11 being fulfilled by Vespasian, Cestius, and Neros decision, in 70 AD is in error. Also, your continual reference to Scofield as our source is not only distracting, and trying to evade clear scriptural teaching in this subject, but is used as a means to degrade my teaching. As such, it does no good to this discussion.

Again, as I clearly brought out, as with several other brethren on Online Baptist brought out, Matthew 24:36 is to be fillfilled as recorded in Revelation. To regulate the prophecy of Daniel and the prophecies in Matthew and Revelation to historical facts is a error of high magnitude.

Alan

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Review of Clarence Larkin’s Commentary

Revelation 6:1-19:10 ‘Tribulation Overview.”

Introduction

Review by Alan

Very Important notes: At this point in our study of the prophetic events in our broad overview of Revelation 6:1-19:10 we need to make sure of six key points in the interpretation, and order of events, of prophecy:

1. “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15 “Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.” 1 Corinthians 10:32. Concerning prophecy, there are specific promises and prophesies given to the elect sons of Israel; specific prophecies concerning the unbelieving Gentile nations, and specific promises to the elect in the church of God (believing Jews and Gentiles in the Church Age).

2. “… for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 19:10

3. The prophetic prophecies by the prophets in the Old Testament concerning the restoration of Israel, the coming of the Messiah, and the times of ‘Jacob’s Trouble,’ (the Tribulation Period)and the prophesies of the Lord Jesus, particularly Matthew chapter 24 & 25, the prophecies of Paul, Peter and John are not always written in the order of sequence. The proper order of sequences of the prophecies is ‘revealed’ in the Book of Revelation. Because God is the God of order, “Let all things be done decently and in order.” 1 Corinthians 14:10, God gave us the proper order of prophetic events clearly delineated in the Book of Revelation.

4. The “Bride,” or “wife” of the Lord Jesus is the church. Ephesians 5:23-33 The reason why the church is not mentioned during the events of the Great Tribulation Period, or the ‘Times of Jacob’s trouble,’ is due to the fact that the church has been in heaven since Revelation 4:1. The church, during the Tribulation Period, Revelation chapter 6-19:24, has been being made ‘ready’ for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, Revelation 19:7-9. Almost without exception, every bride, in every country, in every age, is secretly taken away to be made ‘ready’ for her marriage. In Revelation 4:1 The church was secretly taken out of the world at the ‘Rapture,’ in order to be made ‘ready’ for her bridegroom.

This being made ‘ready’ is primarily a reference to the cleansing of heretical doctrine in the church and the giving of rewards to the Church Age saints at the, ‘Judgment Seat of Christ,’ as spoken by Paul in Romans 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 3:8-15, and 2 Corinthians 5:10. Salvation and service are two different aspects in the Christian life.

Paul wrote this testimony shortly before his death, “For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.” 2 Timothy 4:6

5. We will make occasional reference to the charts in Clarence Larkin’s commentary as required.

6. The Tribulation Period is a time when  God judges the nations of the world as recorded in Isaiah 34 and Micah 5

Alan

Edited by Alan
number error

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Invita,

The points you raised were addressed many times and proven in error. I see no point in belaboring the issue. Your historical dissertation about the prophecy of  Daniel 12:11 being fulfilled by Vespasian, Cestius, and Neros decision, in 70 AD is in error. Also, your continual reference to Scofield as our source is not only distracting, and trying to evade clear scriptural teaching in this subject, but is used as a means to degrade my teaching. As such, it does no good to this discussion.

Again, as I clearly brought out, as with several other brethren on Online Baptist brought out, Matthew 24:36 is to be fillfilled as recorded in Revelation. To regulate the prophecy of Daniel and the prophecies in Matthew and Revelation to historical facts is a error of high magnitude.

Alan

You are still avoiding the facts in the evangelists that the tribulation they describe was local and not worldwide.  Seven years id not mentioned, neither is an antichrist.  Try not to prove your point by keep repeating "You are in error" as if that is proved.  Just try to concentrate on the points I have made and give an answer to those from these scriptures.  Despite what you say you have not given an answer using those scriptures.  Just to recap.  When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies flee to the hills.  If you are outside the country, don't return. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies know that ITS desolation is near.  I know the Brethren taught that Luke was speaking about a different event than Matthew, but that is untenable.  

As an aside.  Our church secretary, was taken to hospital yesterday with a suspected blood clot on his lung.  (He would believe as you do.) 

 

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I do hope that your church secretary gets well.

Thanks Alan. He was taken into hospital on Friday and has had tests and injections.  He was expecting to come out tomorrow, but he may now come home later today.  He will have to inject himself with two drugs and go back for tests later in the week. 

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Thanks again Alan.  He is at home now and his wife missed our evening meeting to take care of him. 

Earlier you asked

What do most of the Reformed Baptist churches in England believe about the Tribulation Period? A brief answer would probably be sufficient if possible.

I asked Ian and he said "pass" this evening I asked one of our members who is a retired Grace Baptist Pastor (Rehoboth Church, Margate then, I think it is in Broadstairs now) All he would say is that it will happen sometime.

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Invicta,

Thank you. Your friend is correct; the tribulation period will happen sometime. Give my regards to Ian.

“Revelation 6:1-19:21, Overview.”

By Clarence Larkin

Review by Alan

Four review notes by Alan.

  1. The charts in this review are copied from my own book. As there is not a page number on some of the doubled charts, I am giving the reader the page number before and after the chart in question.

  2. When I quote Larkin, I will quote him as he wrote; i.e., Capitalization, bold print, punctuation and COMPLETE WORD CAPITALIZATION.     

  3. I have changed my title of this overview from, “Revelation 6:1-19:10,” to, “Revelation 6:1-19:21,” to reflect Larkins’ rendering of Daniel’s Seventieth Week.[1]

  4. The charts are not given a number designation.

“Daniel’s Seventy Weeks.”

Clarence Larkin, from page 48-52, convincingly proves that the events from Revelation 6:1-19:21, are in fulfillment of the prophecy given to Daniel in Daniel 9:1-27.

Larkin says, “The Vision of the “SEVENTY WEEKS” is the most important revelation, in many ways, made in the Scriptures. We are here told that this Period of “SEVENTY WEEKS” was determined upon Daniel’s people ( the Jews ), and upon the HOLY CITY ( Jerusalem ). This is very important. It discloses the fact that the “SEVENTY WEEKS” have nothing to do with the Gentiles, or the Church, but only with the JEWS and JERUSALEM. It also discloses another important fact that the “SEVENTY WEEKS” only cover the period when the Jews are DWELLING IN THEIR OWN LAND, and does not cover the present period of their Dispersion. We are told in verse 24 that those “SEVENTY WEEKS” were determined for a SIX-FOLD purpose.”[2]

Larkin then goes into suitable detail to prove his interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 and the fulfillment thereof in Revelation 6:1-19:21

Larkin sets the foundation of the fulfilled prophecy in Revelation according to the prophecy given to Daniel in Daniel 9:1-27 Larkin proceeds to interpret each statement in Daniel 9:24-27 with the proper relationship with the nation of Israel according to Old and New Testament scripture. For example: Romans 11:26 & 27; Zechariah 12:10, 13:1; Isaiah 66:8; Habakkuk 2:14; Ezekiel 41; Zechariah 6:12 & 13, etc...

Larkin goes into the necessary detail with the dating involved in Daniel 9:24-27

Larkin’s, “The Tribulation Period or Daniel’s

  Seventieth Week” the Reign of the Antichrist.” Chart.

 

Larkin 70 Week Chart.jpg

 

 

The above chart is located between page 48 and 49

Coupled with the above chart, Larkin then proceeds with another chart to show the relationship of the timing of Daniel’s Seventy Weeks as compared with the, “Times of the Gentiles.”

Larkin’s, “SEVENTY WEEKS” “Times of the Gentiles,” chart

 

 

Larkin 70th. Week Chart Page 51.jpg

 

The above chart is on page 51.

Matthew 24 and Revelation 6

Immediately after his dissertation on Daniel 9 Larkin gives us some interesting similarities between the, “Olivet Discourse,” of the Lord Jesus and the order of fulfillment in Revelation 6.

Larkin’s, “Comparison of Christ’s “Olivet Discourse” and “Revelation Six,” charts.

 

Larkin Matt. 24 Chart Page 62 & 63.jpg

 

 

 

The above chart (one of two charts), in found on page 62 & 63

 

Larkin Matt 24 Chart Page 64.jpg

 

 

This chart (number two of two charts), is found on page 64.

 

 

[1] Larkin, Clarence. The Book of Revelation. 1919. Glenside, PA: Clarence Larkin Estate, n.d., Page 48

[2] Larkin, Clarence. The Book of Revelation. 1919. Glenside, PA: Clarence Larkin Estate, n.d., Page 49

 

 

Edited by Alan
spelling rotate charts twice re-uploadOct.22,2016 re-upload charts

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Daniel 11:35,36-43a, describes the first seal white horse and probably Psalm 83 war and Obadiah.

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I am a student currently at Landmark Baptist College and Dr. Mickey Carter is the pastor of the church and president of the college. He teaches a class on Revelation and uses this book as the text book for the class. It is a very good book and I highly recommend it!

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Eric Stahl,

We appreciate your bringing to our attention Daniel 11:35-46a and the first seal, the White Horse, in Revelation 6. I think you are correct. :thumb:

Daniel Galdu,

Welcome to the discussion! We do hope that your studies are doing well at Landmark. I for one, and I am sure other folks at here on OnLine Baptist, do appreciate the fine ministry that the Lord has given to Pastor Mickey Carter. I believe Pastor Carter has been at Landmark Baptist Church for 40 years. Praise the Lord!

Thank you also bringing out that Pastor Carter is using Clarence Larkin's book on Revelation as his texbook for his Revelation  Bible class. :th_tiphat: My hat is off to you.

Brethren,

I cannot over emphasize the importance of Larkin's book in the area of prophecy. I would encourage everyone not only to get a copy ( the current book I am using for the charts in this study is my second copy ), but to study carefully every section, the verses referenced too, and every chart dilgently.

God bless you all.

Alan

 

 

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Daniel 11:35,36-43a, describes the first seal white horse and probably Psalm 83 war and Obadiah.

Danniel 11 has absolutely no connection with Revelation.  It is a history written in advance of the Persians and Greeks and ends up with ministry of Jesus and the Christian Jews fleeing Jerusalem as commanded by Jesus in the Olivet prophecy. Dan 12:1

 

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In relationship with the prophetic history of Israel, already fulfilled, Daniel 11:1-34 is a complete history of the four kings mentioned in Daniel 11:1 & 2

The four kings are:

1. Ahasuerus: Ezra 4:6 and Esther 1:1

2. Artaxerxes: Ezra 4:6-24

3. Darius Hystaspis: Ezra 4:6-24 King of Persia

4. The mighty king in Daniel 11:3 is Alexander the Great who destroyed the Persian Kingdom in 332 B.C.

Please note: in Daniel 11:4 we have the prophecy that after the fourth king was destroyed his kingdom would be broken up into four other kingdoms. Clarence Larkin, in his explanation of Daniel 8, goes into detail how this was historically fulfilled on page 112-115 of his book. Again, I would suggest that you, and anyone else interested in a serious study of prophecy, obtain Clarence Larkin's book on Revelation and study it along with your Bible.

Daniel 11:1-34 was completed prophecy and is considered history as we speak.

If you read Eric Stahls' post he clearly, and correctly, delineated Daniel 11:35-43a from Daniel 11:1-34. Eric knows his biblical history and what was fulfilled and what will be fulfilled in the future as recorded in the book of Revelation.

If you read Daniel 11:35 very, very closely it is obvious that the prophet Daniel is clearly referring to another king.  "... even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed." The "...time of the end ..." has not been reached as we speak. From verse 35 and following the prophet Daniel ceases to talk about the kings of Persians, Greeks, and any other Kings in history (such as Antiochus Epiphanes B.C. 175-165). Daniel 11:35-43 and he is clearly referring to the end times as recorded in Revelation.

It is historically, and prophetically, incorrect to say that any portion of Daniel 11 was completed after the ministry of the Lord Jesus in 70 A.D. when Titus destroyed Jerusalem  and it is an incorrect interpretation of the teaching of the Lord Jesus as recorded in the Olivet discourse.

Eric Stahl was correct and I was correct when I agreed with him.  

Alan

Edited by Alan
spelling grammer

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In relationship with the prophetic history of Israel, already fulfilled, Daniel 11:1-34 is a complete history of the four kings mentioned in Daniel 11:1 & 2

The four kings are:

1. Ahasuerus: Ezra 4:6 and Esther 1:1

2. Artaxerxes: Ezra 4:6-24

3. Darius Hystaspis: Ezra 4:6-24 King of Persia

4. The mighty king in Daniel 11:3 is Alexander the Great who destroyed the Persian Kingdom in 332 B.C.

Please note: in Daniel 11:4 we have the prophecy that after the fourth king was destroyed his kingdom would be broken up into four other kingdoms. Clarence Larkin, in his explanation of Daniel 8, goes into detail how this was historically fulfilled on page 112-115 of his book. Again, I would suggest that you, and anyone else interested in a serious study of prophecy, obtain Clarence Larkin's book on Revelation and study it along with your Bible.

Daniel 11:1-34 was completed prophecy and is considered history as we speak.

If you read Eric Stahls' post he clearly, and correctly, delineated Daniel 11:35-43a from Daniel 11:1-34. Eric knows his biblical history and what was fulfilled and what will be fulfilled in the future as recorded in the book of Revelation.

If you read Daniel 11:35 very, very closely it is obvious that the prophet Daniel is clearly referring to another king.  "... even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed." The "...time of the end ..." has not been reached as we speak. From verse 35 and following the prophet Daniel ceases to talk about the kings of Persians, Greeks, and any other Kings in history (such as Antiochus Epiphanes B.C. 175-165). Daniel 11:35-43 and he is clearly referring to the end times as recorded in Revelation.

It is historically, and prophetically, incorrect to say that any portion of Daniel 11 was completed after the ministry of the Lord Jesus in 70 A.D. when Titus destroyed Jerusalem  and it is an incorrect interpretation of the teaching of the Lord Jesus as recorded in the Olivet discourse.

Eric Stahl was correct and I was correct when I agreed with him.  

Alan

No Eric was not correct. There is no gap after verse 34, it carries straight on through Roman times.

The four kings were:  first their Bible name and then the name which has come down to us from History. Cyrus being the king reigning at the time. Dan 10:1 

1. Ahasuerus: Ezra 4:6  Cambyses, son of Cyrus. not the same Ahasuerus as Esther 1:1 Who was same as No 3

2. ArtaxerxesEzra 4:6-24 The Psuedo Smerdis, also known as the Magi, reigned for only 8 months (Herodotus) or 1 year (Josephus)  The difference no doubt being the way the Jews calculated the reign of kings.

3. Darius Ezra 4:6-24 King of Persia  Darius Hystaspis Who was probably the same as Artaxerxes of Nehemiah

4 Xerxes the king who stirred up all nations against Grecia.  He invaded Greece with an army of millions.from all nations including India.

THEN the mighty king , Alexander, would stand up, the first willful king in the chapter.

 

 

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No Eric was not correct. There is no gap after verse 34, it carries straight on through Roman times.

THEN the mighty king , Alexander, would stand up, the first willful king in the chapter.

 

 

Invicta,

Eric was indeed correct as he simply believed the scriptures as it is written in Daniel 11:35  as quoted and carefully explined in my above post. Your interpretation that verse 34 is carried to Romans times is both scriptually and historically incorrect.

By the way, if you know your history concerning Alexander the Great you would see that Daniel 11:37 (nor a careful reading of the rest of Daniel 11), cannot apply to Alexander the Great  The history of Alexander the Great is very interesting reading, but, he was not the "willful king" as prophesied by Daniel.   

As this thread is concerning a review of Larkin's book on Revelation I will forego any more time and effort in trying to convince you otherwise.

Brethren,

I will be continuing the review of Larkin's book soon. I will be reviewing the section entitled, "The Interval Between the Sixth and Seventh Seal, " page 65 and following. This section starts with Revelation 7 looking forward to your hearing your thoughts, comments, and questions.

May God bless you all.

Alan

 

 

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Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

2 Thess 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

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If you notice carefully what I said, you will see that I said Alexander was the first willful king I didn't give the verse and perhaps I did not word it well.  Alexander was the willful  king in verse three whose kingdom was split into four after his death.

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Beameup,

Thank you very much for bringing to our attention 2 Thessalonians 2:3 & 4 and its relationship with Daniel 11:36  

Invicta,

You are right. Alexander the Great was the first willful king in Daniel 11. "And a mighty King shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will." Daniel 11:3

And, may I add a side note, throughout history many, many other kings, rulers, and Presidents, have ruled, "... according to his will." The "will of God," and the "will of the people," in the mind of these rulers are inconsequential. "There is nothing new under the sun."

Alan

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2 Thess 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Exactly.  And notice the sequence,   "that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first" That day, our meeting with the Lord.  shall not come except there be a falling away first.  There was a great falling away from  AD 300 onwards that allowed the papacy to develop,.and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The Pope and the papacy: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God.  He opposes God by calling himself god on earth. and all that is called God.  All that is called God in the RCC is the consecrated wafer which is held aloft and worshipped as God.  In his coronation, the pope sits on the the high altar above the host, all that is called God exalting himself above it.  Chinquy  calls the consecrated host "le bon dieu", the good god.

All fulfilled, firstly falling away, 2ndly the man of sin, revealed, lastly or gathering to meet the Lord.

 

 

Edited by Invicta

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The 6th seal is the Ezekiel 38 & 39 war, which is also described in Daniel 11:43b-45, Jeremiah 25:14-38, Isaiah 25:4-7.

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Exactly.  And notice the sequence,   "that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first" That day, our meeting with the Lord.  shall not come except there be a falling away first.  There was a great falling away from  AD 300 onwards that allowed the papacy to develop,.and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The Pope and the papacy: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God.  He opposes God by calling himself god on earth. and all that is called God.  All that is called God in the RCC is the consecrated wafer which is held aloft and worshipped as God.  In his coronation, the pope sits on the the high altar above the host, all that is called God exalting himself above it.  Chinquy  calls the consecrated host "le bon dieu", the good god.

All fulfilled, firstly falling away, 2ndly the man of sin, revealed, lastly or gathering to meet the Lord.

Very good comment Invicta! You obviously read the scriptures accurately, and can 'see' into the meanings well, as a man lead by God.

It is great to see clarity, is it not?

Beameup,

Thank you very much for bringing to our attention 2 Thessalonians 2:3 & 4 and its relationship with Daniel 11:36  

Invicta,

You are right. Alexander the Great was the first willful king in Daniel 11. "And a mighty King shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will." Daniel 11:3

And, may I add a side note, throughout history many, many other kings, rulers, and Presidents, have ruled, "... according to his will." The "will of God," and the "will of the people," in the mind of these rulers are inconsequential. "There is nothing new under the sun."

Alan

Glad to see you investing in history, Alan!

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