Question About Preterism

[Ukulelemike]

I know there are some here who are either partial or full preterists. I have a question

I have been doing some study on it, since there seems to be a lot of differing views on it. One thing that I don't understand. Full preterism says that all was fulfilled in 70AD, and that, with the ending of the temple and the Jewish sacrifice, began the new heaven and new earth. So then, what now? Really, then we have absolutely no scripture to deal with AFTER the new heaven and new earth-the Bile just ends. DO we have anything to look forward to? No sun, no moon, what does that mean? For such is said to be the condition of the new earth, no sun nor moon to light it. Will things just kind of go on and on and on with no end?

What of those in Hell? No Lake of Fire for Satan and his followers, just eternally in hell? It just seems nothing is wrapped up/ What about the first resurrection? Of the saved if this is the new heaven and new earth now, when is the general resurrection of the saved, since scripture says it comes just BEFORE the return of Christ to reign 1000 years, which by Preterism is symbolic and He never actually comes. It just doesnt make sense to me.

Here's the thing: this is all very serious-I am not making light of it, rather it is my true desire to seek into all things to make sure that I am understanding it correctly. But it seems so, I don't know, endless, no closure, I guess-we just go on and on, the good and the wicked together for all time. Somehow the Bible picutres the kingdom age a lot better than what we have seen the last 2000 years, with the rule of the Catholic church and their murderous ways-doesn't seem like the peace promised.

So, how do we see these things? Seriously.

[Alan]

 

 

I know there are some here who are either partial or full preterists. I have a question

I have been doing some study on it, since there seems to be a lot of differing views on it. One thing that I don't understand. Full preterism says that all was fulfilled in 70AD, and that, with the ending of the temple and the Jewish sacrifice, began the new heaven and new earth. So then, what now? Really, then we have absolutely no scripture to deal with AFTER the new heaven and new earth-the Bile just ends. DO we have anything to look forward to? No sun, no moon, what does that mean? For such is said to be the condition of the new earth, no sun nor moon to light it. Will things just kind of go on and on and on with no end?

What of those in Hell? No Lake of Fire for Satan and his followers, just eternally in hell? It just seems nothing is wrapped up/ What about the first resurrection? Of the saved if this is the new heaven and new earth now, when is the general resurrection of the saved, since scripture says it comes just BEFORE the return of Christ to reign 1000 years, which by Preterism is symbolic and He never actually comes. It just doesnt make sense to me.

Here's the thing: this is all very serious-I am not making light of it, rather it is my true desire to seek into all things to make sure that I am understanding it correctly. But it seems so, I don't know, endless, no closure, I guess-we just go on and on, the good and the wicked together for all time. Somehow the Bible picutres the kingdom age a lot better than what we have seen the last 2000 years, with the rule of the Catholic church and their murderous ways-doesn't seem like the peace promised.

So, how do we see these things? Seriously.

Ukelememike,

Makes good common, spiritual sense to me. If all of the events in Revelation chapter 6-20:15 is symbolism than Revelation 21:1, the new heaven and the new earth, is also symbolism. Great posting!

Preterism is not only unscriptural, and subject to the whims of symbolism, but it is a system of belief that makes no sense at all. As I tried to teach in my Revelation chapter 19-22 Study the brethren who symbolize Revelation are in the dark as far as prophecy is concerned. http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=12 The book of Revelation is a sealed book to our Preterist brethren.

To a Preterist, as you mentioned, there is no closure, no Tribulation Period, no fulfilled promises to Abraham and the Patriarchs, no Anti-Christ, no false prophet, no two witnesses, no final judgment on the wicked nations on the earth and no Kingdom Age, and the prophesies given by the Old Testament prophets are just for previous historical events, fulfilled, in a spiritual symbolic way, in the Church Age.

As you mentioned,  the whole system of Preterism makes no sense at all. 

 

 

 

[Ukulelemike]

 

 

Ukelememike,

Makes good common, spiritual sense to me. If all of the events in Revelation chapter 6-20:15 is symbolism than Revelation 21:1, the new heaven and the new earth, is also symbolism. Great posting!

Preterism is not only unscriptural, and subject to the whims of symbolism, but it is a system of belief that makes no sense at all. As I tried to teach in my Revelation chapter 19-22 Study the brethren who symbolize Revelation are in the dark as far as prophecy is concerned. http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=12 The book of Revelation is a sealed book to our Preterist brethren.

To a Preterist, as you mentioned, there is no closure, no Tribulation Period, no fulfilled promises to Abraham and the Patriarchs, no Anti-Christ, no false prophet, no two witnesses, no final judgment on the wicked nations on the earth and no Kingdom Age, and the prophesies given by the Old Testament prophets are just for previous historical events, fulfilled, in a spiritual symbolic way, in the Church Age.

As you mentioned,  the whole system of Preterism makes no sense at all. 

 

 

 

Actually, they believe either Caesar or Gen Titus (?) who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, was the Antichrist. They believe that the calling out of the believers in 1Thes 4 took place in 70AD, and the new heaven and earth began after the destruction of Jerusalem, so, yeah, this is apparently as good as it will get, according to them.

[Covenanter]

This was discussed in this thread.

We do look for Jesus to return at the end of the present Gospel age of grace, when he will raise & judge the dead & bring about a NH&NE. 2 Peter 3

OT prophecy focuses on Jesus & his saving work, the new covenant including all nations, & the eternal blessing for all God's redeemed people in Abraham's Seed - Christ. See Hebrews. 

I do not hold to the version of preterism that ends all prophecy in AD 70. 

added:

I do not know of an acceptable term for what I believe -

"partial preterism" doesn't define it,;

"Covenant theology" should be clear but many of you call it heresy, presumably because of your reading of dispy sources that redefine what others believe so that they can refute their own misunderstandings.

The old covenant Scriptures are concerned with the outworking of the covenant promises to Abraham in the people of Israel, with many aspects of that outworking being examples & shadows, pictures, of the fulfilment in & through Christ & his saving life & work. Many aspects of OT prophecy are of immediate concern to those to whom the prophecy was addressed, NOT of the events leading up to Jesus' return. They may apply down the ages as appropriate - he that hath an ear, let him hear....

The covenant relationship of God with his people is summed by the expression "I will be their God & they will be my people" that occurs in various wording throughout the Scriptures. That relationship was secured at Calvary. The OC laws & rituals were examples of the God's holy requirements that were fulfilled by Jesus in his life & death & resurrection. He is reigning from his heavenly throne, & during the present "millennium" saving sinners who enter heaven at death & will be raised at his return to enjoy the eternal NH&NE. The war against Satan has been won, but his captives are being freed in time, so that our condition by nature as rebel sinners is transformed by saving grace. We still live in a rebel world until we die. 

Aspects of "partial preterism" include the OT focus on Jesus & his redeemed people, the end of the OC & the securing of the NC at Calvary, the absolute end of all the God-ordained manifestations of the OC - obedience to the Law, the sacrificial system, priesthood, etc. Christ confirmed the covenant, & the Holy Spirit applies it. AD 70 brought that absolute end. Revelation is concerned with the events leading up to the destruction, but includes warnings & encouragements that apply throughout the Gospel age. I won't quarrel with those who see the Papacy as the great enemy of believers. 

"PP" therefore does not look for prophecy fulfilment during the present Gospel Age of Grace, but looks to Jesus' return, which brings about the absolute perfection of all prophecy. Jesus had many warnings for those who rejected him, but once "this generation" had passed, believers are encouraged to faithful living - not knowing the time of Jesus' coming.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Covenanter
Added paragraphs as indicated

[Alan]

Covenanter,

I have some questions concerning your position on your post concerning Preterism or Partial Preterism as you call  your postion. As you were vague in details I cannot comment on all of it. I found out long time ago that Preterists, and others who hold that the book of Revelation is symbolic, are vague in their answers due to that the scriptures are subject to the  whims of the Preterist. Vague answers are evasive answers.

 

This was discussed in this thread.

We do look for Jesus to return at the end of the present Gospel age of grace, when he will raise & judge the dead & bring about a NH&NE. 2 Peter 3

OT prophecy focuses on Jesus & his saving work, the new covenant including all nations, & the eternal blessing for all God's redeemed people in Abraham's Seed - Christ. See Hebrews. 

I do not hold to the version of preterism that ends all prophecy in AD 70. 

added:

I do not know of an acceptable term for what I believe -

"partial preterism" doesn't define it,; If you do not hold to the version of Preterism that all prophecy ended in 70 AD and that you cannot define 'partial Preterism' that you do believe in. How can we know what you believe? As with all the different forms of Preterism and Reformed Theology prophetical beliefs relies on symbolism and not definite scriptural belief. All forms of Preterism are subject to the whims of the individual. Therefore, all forms of Preterism and the various Reformed Theology prophetical beliefs are erroneous.

"Covenant theology" should be clear but many of you call it heresy, presumably because of your reading of dispy sources that redefine what others believe so that they can refute their own misunderstandings. This is your own private deductions. 

The old covenant Scriptures are concerned with the outworking of the covenant promises to Abraham in the people of Israel, with many aspects of that outworking being examples & shadows, pictures, of the fulfilment in & through Christ & his saving life & work. That is not entirely true. There are many promises given to the Prophets concerning the nation of Israel that you neglected to men. To only mention that the saving work of Christ fulfilled the Old Testament scriptures is not correct. Many aspects of OT prophecy are of immediate concern to those to whom the prophecy was addressed, NOT of the events leading up to Jesus' return. They may apply down the ages as appropriate - he that hath an ear, let him hear....

That is not true. The vast majority of the prophesies and promises spoken by the prophets are to be literally fulfilled by the restoration of the nation of Israel.Please note the following scripture promises and prophecies after posting.

The covenant relationship of God with his people is summed by the expression "I will be their God & they will be my people" that occurs in various wording throughout the Scriptures.  The quote in Hosea does not sum up the covenant relationship with Israel. That relationship was secured at Calvary. The covenant relationship with Israel has not been fulfilled yet. The OC  of laws & rituals were examples of the God's holy requirements that were fulfilled by Jesus in his life & death & resurrection. Your usage of 'OC' or Old Covenant  is not the proper terminology and is miss-leading. The proper terminology is the  law, or the scriptures, or the prophets, or the Psalms.    He is reigning from his heavenly throne, & during the present "millennium" saving sinners who enter heaven at death & will be raised at his return to enjoy the eternal NH&NE. The present age is not the 'millennium' in any sense of the word. The war against Satan has been won, but his captives are being freed in time, so that our condition by nature as rebel sinners is transformed by saving grace. According to 1 Peter 5:8 and 9, and other passages, the war against Satan is still going on until Revelation 20:10.  We still live in a rebel world until we die. This is a partial truth; Satan is still the god of this world blinding the eyes of the lost, 2 Corinthians 4:4

Aspects of "partial preterism" include the OT focus on Jesus & his redeemed people, the end of the OC & the securing of the NC at Calvary, the absolute end of all the God-ordained manifestations of the OC - obedience to the Law, the sacrificial system, priesthood, etc. Christ confirmed the covenant, & the Holy Spirit applies it. AD 70 brought that absolute end.  That is an erroneous statement. Please study the  above Old Testament references  given above. And, Ezekiel chapter 38-44 is still yet to be fulfilled.  Revelation is concerned with the events leading up to the destruction, but includes warnings & encouragements that apply throughout the Gospel age. I won't quarrel with those who see the Papacy as the great enemy of believers.    "PP" therefore does not look for prophecy fulfilment during the present Gospel Age of Grace, but looks to Jesus' return, which brings about the absolute perfection of all prophecy. Jesus had many warnings for those who rejected him, but once "this generation" had passed, believers are encouraged to faithful living - not knowing the time of Jesus' coming. Revelation is a book of prophecy concerning literal future events that have not been fulfilled yet.  

 

 

The following is a list of literal prophecies and promises given to the nation of Israel and will be fulfilled as the book of Revelation tells us. None of the following prophesies and promises were fulfilled at Calvary. in 70 a.d.,  nor in the New Testament Church Age.

Isaiah 9:6 tells us there will be no end to the Kingdom. The Kingdom will continue throughout eternity.

Isaiah chapter 11 the animal kingdom will be changed among other physical blessings.

Isaiah 24:23 After the horrific happenings listed in Isaiah 24:1-22 the, “... LORD of hosts shall reign in Mt Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.”

Isaiah chapter 35 tells us of the great physical blessings in the Millennium.

Isaiah 30:18-26

Isaiah chapter 60 tells us that the Lord will not only restore the nation of Israel but He will glorify the nation of Israel. Isaiah 60:12, “For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yes, those nations shall be utterly wasted.” May I at this juncture remind the Saved Gentiles that the church did not, ‘replace,’ Israel, but the Saved Gentiles are, ‘grafted,’ into the nation of Israel. Romans 11

Isaiah 65:17-25 tells us of the increase of longevity and, ‘... the wolf and the lamb shall feed together...’ see also Zechariah 8:1-8

Ezekiel chapter 47 tells us further great physical changes and blessings.

Hosea 3:5 David will be King over Israel.

Micah 4:1-7 tells us all nations will come to the Millennial Temple.

Zechariah chapter 3 the LORD will take away the filthy garments of the Joshua the High priest in order to serve, ‘... my servant the BRANCH.’ The, BRANCH,’ is the Lord Jesus as KING.

Zechariah 8:21-23 tells us of the restoration of the Jew to international prominence.

Zechariah 9:10 tells us how far the dominion will cover.

Zechariah 12:9-14 tell how the Jews will mourn for the previous unbelief.

Zechariah chapter 14:4-11 and 16-21 tells us of changes of the land and the nations.

Joel 3:18; 2:24-26

 Amos 9:13

Isaiah 55:12 & 13

Psalm 67:6

Alan

Edited August 29, 2015 by Alan
correction spelling correction

[MountainChristian]

How many times have we heard this used (This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.) to prove everything happened in 70AD?

 

 

So if verse 24 is speaking of the pre-told future how will the Jews from Jerusalem be led away captive in all nations for just a short time before Jesus coming to Rapture the Church?

It did happen - in AD 70.

The rapture is part of partial preterism. The church age was over in the year 70. 

[Invicta]

The rapture is part of partial preterism. The church age was over in the year 70. 

You do make up a lot of nonsense.

[MountainChristian]

You do make up a lot of nonsense.

[Invicta]

I don't think he included your so called rapture what the scripture says is our gathering to meet the Lord.

 

 

Here is a question for you.

I was taught variously that there were two comings, Once for the saints and then with the saints,  Or that they were two stages in one coming.  But Sir Richard Anderson said the was a third coming, and perhaps other comings as well. 

How many second comings are there?

Edited August 30, 2015 by Invicta

[Ukulelemike]

The Bible gives, technically, 2-1/2 comings, for lack of a better term:

  1: Jesus as suffering Lamb of God to die for the sin of the world

  1/2: Jesus coming in the clouds at the "rapture", so called, of the saints

  2-1/2 : Jesus return as reigning King.

[wretched]

I don't think he included your so called rapture what the scripture says is our gathering to meet the Lord.

 

 

Here is a question for you.

I was taught variously that there were two comings, Once for the saints and then with the saints,  Or that they were two stages in one coming.  But Sir Richard Anderson said the was a third coming, and perhaps other comings as well. 

How many second comings are there?

Can't argue with apostates folks. Read their posts carefully

[Alan]

wretched,

Thank you for your acute observation. An individual who is an apostate is one who has departed, willingly and knowingly, from the faith.

[Genevanpreacher]

wretched,

Thank you for your acute observation. An individual who is an apostate is one who has departed, willingly and knowingly, from the faith.

Of which no one here has.

Thank you Alan, for your insight of wisdom. 

[Invicta]

Of which no one here has.

Thank you Alan, for your insight of wisdom. 

Wretched is one who of those who is teaching novel doctrines.  

1Tim4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

And he calls others apostates.  I pity him.

[Covenanter]

The Bible gives, technically, 2-1/2 comings, for lack of a better term:

  1: Jesus as suffering Lamb of God to die for the sin of the world

  1/2: Jesus coming in the clouds at the "rapture", so called, of the saints

  2-1/2 : Jesus return as reigning King.

Or is the "1/2" coming in the clouds his veiled coming in AD 70? 

Mark 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.