Everlasting Covenants?

Covenanter · June 15, 2015

Try again - via my word processor.

I've only quoted one of Bro. Scott's posts, despite the formatting. @BroMatt

Rom. 11:23-27 In vs 26-27 Paul is quoting Isaiah who, over 700 years before, wrote in the future tense concerning the Redeemer & the covenant. Paul uses the same future tense because he is quoting, but of course the Redeemer has come, did come, as prophesied.

The Jews may still be looking for a Sion Deliverer, but, as Paul teaches in Rom. 11:23 they can find him when they come to Jesus in faith. Jesus taught his disciples on the Emmaus road in response to their spoken regret: "we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel:"
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Concerning Romans 11:25-27.

It is correct that the apostle Paul was quoting from Isaiah in Romans 11:26-27. It is correct that in his original prophetic utterance, Isaiah was employing the future tense to speak concerning an event that was yet future to him. It is correct that the apostle Paul was quoting the future tense verbs that Isaiah originally employed.

OK so far.

However, in Romans 11:26-27 the apostle Paul was not quoting Isaiah with regard to our Lord Jesus Christ’s first coming to die on the cross and rise again from the dead. Rather, the apostle Paul was providing this quote from Isaiah as an Old Testament evidence for a statement that he had made at the beginning of Romans 11:26 under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit concerning the children of Israel. That Holy Spirit inspired statement is as follows, “And so all Israel shall be saved.”

Not necessarily. His Scripture quotes were to prove his previous assertions regarding:

1. The failure of Israel after the flesh, apart from an elect remnant, to believe the Messiah; Rom. 11:1-6

2. Questions about God apparently failing to keep his covenant promises; Rom. 9:1-5

3. Gentiles being included in the (covenant) promises to Israel as "my people";

4. Who is a true Jew, & who is "all Israel?" Rom. 2:28-29 Rom. 9:1-12

He has made it very clear that Gospel-believing Gentiles are more truly Jews than unbelieving Jews, e.g. Rom. 3:21-31 so that the promises to the Patriarchs include all who believe in Jesus Christ. Rom. 8:1-4 Gal. 3:26-29 Phil. 3:1-3

It will be helpful to consider the way Paul refers to God's people in Romans:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=people&t=KJV#s=s_primary_45_1

Now, when the apostle Paul made this Holy Spirit inspired statement concerning the salvation of “all Israel,” he also employed a future tense verb (“shall be saved”). This statement (“And so all Israel shall be saved.”) was not a quote from Isaiah; therefore, it referred to some event that would occur in the future from the apostle’s declaration of the statement in the epistle to the Romans. Then the apostle made the quote from Isaiah as Old Testament Scriptural evidence for this statement concerning this event that would be future to that moment. Even so, the future tense verbs of the quotation from Isaiah were presented as being in union with the future tense verb of the statement concerning the salvation of “all Israel” in the future.

So, who comprise "all Israel" & how will all Israel be saved? Notice that the key expression is: “And so all Israel shall be saved.” That expression "And so..." relates to what has gone before, rather than what follows. The following quotations are to substantiate what Paul has been teaching, rather than to initiate a new prophecy.

All Israel (whoever) is saved when they believe. (... abide not still in unbelief.) Actually Paul makes an extraordinary statement:

"11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Let's look at the grammar. "And so" indicates the procedure previously described - salvation by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The mystery is the blindness of ethnic Israel resulting in the salvation of the Gentiles. We would expect, once "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" Paul to write "And THEN all Israel shall be saved" so we tend to read what follows as a further prophecy, rather than an explanation. Paul has previously explained:

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Israel can expect a fulness, as well as the Gentiles, but is that fulness actually prophesied, or hypothetical? A possible meaning is that there will be a great Jewish revival before Jesus returns, resulting in great Gospel activity towards the Gentiles - fulness of both. We know that the Jewish persecution of the believing Jews resulted in the spread of the Gospel by the scattered Jews, first to other Jews, then to Gentiles. Acts 11:18-21 Many thousands of Jews believed, as recorded in Acts, so that the church comprised large numbers of Jews (including priests) before Gentiles began to be added. They ceased to be identified as "Jews" or "Israel" but became "Christians." The fall of the Jews was partial, & we are still waiting for the fulness of the Gentiles.

As such, all of these future tense verbs, both in the statement and in the quotation, were a reference to some event that would be future to the apostle’s writing of the epistle to the Romans. Yet our Lord Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection was already past tense at that point. Furthermore, the sending forth of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost was already past tense at that point. In fact, the entire first number of years of the church, wherein the church was comprised only of believing Israelites, was already past tense at that point. It would seem then that the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, could not have been speaking concerning any of those scenarios when he prophesied concerning an event wherein “all Israel shall be saved.”

Reading Isaiah 59, it is a clear prophecy of the coming of Messiah - Jesus as recorded in the Gospels. He did confirm the covenant, & take away the sins of all who repented. The Jews continued to persecute Christians until the destruction. Whether Jewish persecution of Christians was significant after AD 70, so that in effect their enmity ceased, I don't know. Certainly all Israel shall be saved, & to date 60 generations of believing Jews & Gentiles have been saved so "all Israel" is indeed countless - as sand & stars. There is no specific prophecy for Israel after the flesh, except that they are saved when they believe.

He may not not be speaking of past scenarios, but he is speaking of salvation, & of course the future has been running for nearly 2,000 years.

What then is the contextual flow of thought in Romans 11:23-27 concerning this event? In Romans 11:23-24 the apostle presented his conclusion to a picture concerning a good olive tree, its natural branches, some of which had been “broken off,” and branches from a wild olive tree that had been “graffed in” to the good olive tree. Within that picture the natural branches that had been “broken off” represented unbelieving Israelites. Even so, with the conclusion of Romans 11:23-24, the apostle revealed that these “broken off” branches (these unbelieving Israelites) could be again “graffed into their own olive tree” if they would come to heart-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

Of course - all unrepentant sinners are "broken off" & all repentant sinners "grafted in." Not necessarily en mass.

Then in Romans 11:25-27 the apostle Paul revealed a Biblical mystery concerning the children of Israel, in order to warn believing Gentiles not to be wise in their own conceits against unbelieving Israelites. This Biblical mystery has three basic parts, as follows:

1. “That blindness in part is happened to Israel.” This report was presented by the apostle in the present tense. Therefore, this “in part” spiritual blindness had already begun for the children of Israel, and was a present reality for the children of Israel when the apostle wrote the epistle to the Romans. Now, it is important to notice that this spiritual blindness upon the children of Israel was not in total, but was only “in part.” This “in part” spiritual blindness still allows for a small remnant of the children of Israel to be saved through in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

The remnant comprises many thousands, as recorded in Acts.

2. “Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” This phrase indicates the length of time wherein the “in part” spiritual blindness would continue for the children of Israel. That “in part” spiritual blindness would continue for the children of Israel until the occurrence and “coming in” of that event which is described as “the fulness of the Gentiles.”

3. “And so all Israel shall be saved.” The “and so” of this statement indicates an event that would occur following the event of “the fulness of the Gentiles.” Even so, this statement is presented in direct contrast to the report concerning the “in part” spiritual blindness upon the children of Israel. In the first place, this contrast is revealed by the two contrasting phrases, “in part . . . to Israel” and “all Israel.” In the second place, this contrast is revealed by the two contrasting phrases, “blindness . . . has happened” and “shall be saved.” It is also important to notice that the event described in this statement (“And so all Israel shall be saved.”) does not allow only for a small remnant to be saved, as in the case of the “in part” reality, but indicates that all of the children of Israel will be saved at whatever time this event would occur.

"And so" relates to what has gone before, rather than what will happen. Sadly, by your reasoning, "all Israel" excludes 60 generations over 2,000 years. We can understand Paul meaning by "all Israel" all those saved by faith under the old covenant period, together with all those saved through the new covenant in the Deliverer's blood, together, of course, with believing Gentiles.

Now, as I have indicated above, the quotation from Isaiah in Romans 11:26-27 is presented as an Old Testament Scriptural evidence for this statement that “all Israel shall be saved.” This is signaled by the word “as” in the phrase, “as it is written,” that immediate follows the statement that “all Israel shall be saved.” Even so, the apostle Paul was guided by God the Holy Spirit to understand that the event about which Isaiah spoke was the same event as that about which he was prophesying concerning the salvation of “all Israel.” Apparently in this event, the Deliverer, the Lord Jesus Christ, would “come out of Sion” in order to “turn away ungodliness from Jacob,” and in that to “turn away ungodliness” from all of Jacob, since this is supporting quote for the prophetic utterance that “all Israel shall be saved.” Yet had not the Deliverer, the Lord Jesus Christ, already come once. Certainly, he had; therefore, this prophetic utterance must be a reference to the Deliverer, the Lord Jesus Christ, coming again.

When Jesus comes again, he will come from heaven. He came to Sion, was crucified outside the gate, rose from the dead & met with his disciples in Sion with his Kingdom teaching & the great commission. Acts 1. We need not see a future event but a continuous process until Jesus returns.

With our Lord Jesus Christ’s first coming, spiritual darkness has fallen upon Israel “in part,” such that only a small remnant shall be saved. Furthermore, with our Lord Jesus Christ’s first coming, the gospel opportunity has been opened wide unto the Gentiles; and this reality shall continue “until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” However, when the event of “the fulness of the Gentiles” occurs, then shall follow the event wherein “all Israel shall be saved,” the event of our Lord Jesus Christ’s Second Coming wherein He will turn ungodliness completely and totally from “all Israel.” Yea, then shall come the event wherein God the Father fulfills His covenant with the children of Israel by which He has promised “to take away their sins,” completely and totally from all of them at that time.

The remnant was't small - it was many thousands. They don't need another covenant, but to repent & trust in the new covenant in Jesus' blood.

Indeed, “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” What He has promised unto the children of Israel in His covenants with them as recorded in the Old Testament, He shall certainly fulfill. Yea, this He will do because He is by great, good, gracious, and glorious nature the ever true and faithful Lord God! Amen, and AMEN!!!

Indeed, all the glorious covenant promises will be gloriously fulfilled in the NH&NE in a condition of perfect righteousness, for all those redeemed by Jesus' new covenant blood.

I do not see a prophecy of the wholesale conversion of ethnic Israel after Jesus returns. Now is the day of salvation. What I do see, as we read on in Romans is the inclusion of the Gentiles as prophesied. See Acts 15.

Pastor Scott Markle · June 16, 2015

To the audience as a whole,

Please remember that Biblical truth is understood as we, being guided by God the Holy Spirit, come to discern the Holy Spirit inspired grammar and context for any given statement of God's Holy Word. This Holy Spirit inspired grammar and context is the straightforward meaning of God the Holy Spirit for the passage. Anything else is simply a man-ufactured idea.

[Pastor Scott Markle]
However, in Romans 11:26-27 the apostle Paul was not quoting Isaiah with regard to our Lord Jesus Christ’s first coming to die on the cross and rise again from the dead. Rather, the apostle Paul was providing this quote from Isaiah as an Old Testament evidence for a statement that he had made at the beginning of Romans 11:26 under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit concerning the children of Israel. That Holy Spirit inspired statement is as follows, “And so all Israel shall be saved.”
[Brother Ian Day]
Not necessarily. His Scripture quotes were to prove his previous assertions regarding:
1. The failure of Israel after the flesh, apart from an elect remnant, to believe the Messiah; Rom. 11:1-6
2. Questions about God apparently failing to keep his covenant promises; Rom. 9:1-5
3. Gentiles being included in the (covenant) promises to Israel as "my people";
4. Who is a true Jew, & who is "all Israel?" Rom. 2:28-29 Rom. 9:1-12
He has made it very clear that Gospel-believing Gentiles are more truly Jews than unbelieving Jews, e.g. Rom. 3:21-31 so that the promises to the Patriarchs include all who believe in Jesus Christ. Rom. 8:1-4 Gal. 3:26-29 Phil. 3:1-3
It will be helpful to consider the way Paul refers to God's people in Romans:

Yes, necessarily. Grammatically, Romans 11:26-27 is a single sentence as inspired by God the Holy Spirit. The word "as" that is found in the midst of this single sentence begins the phrase, "as it is written," which in turn introduces the quotation from Isaiah that concludes this single sentence. Furthermore, this word "as" in this single sentence serves as a modifier for the statement with which this Holy Spirit inspired single sentence began -- "And so all Israel shall be saved." As such, this word "as," the phrase that it begins ("as it is written"), and the quotation from Isaiah that it introduces all serve to provide Old Testament Scriptural evidence for that Holy Spirit inspired statement in the same sentence. Even so, the quotation from Isaiah found in Romans 11:26-27 is not at all provided in relation to the truths of Romans 9:1-12 or the truths of Romans 11:1-6, which are whole paragraphs distant from the quotation. The straightforward reading does not require us to jump from one grammatical sentence and paragraph to the context of a completely different and distant paragraph. The straightforward reading allows us to remain within the context of the same sentence and the same paragraph wherein the quotation is found.

[Pastor Scott Markle]
Now, when the apostle Paul made this Holy Spirit inspired statement concerning the salvation of “all Israel,” he also employed a future tense verb (“shall be saved”). This statement (“And so all Israel shall be saved.”) was not a quote from Isaiah; therefore, it referred to some event that would occur in the future from the apostle’s declaration of the statement in the epistle to the Romans. Then the apostle made the quote from Isaiah as Old Testament Scriptural evidence for this statement concerning this event that would be future to that moment. Even so, the future tense verbs of the quotation from Isaiah were presented as being in union with the future tense verb of the statement concerning the salvation of “all Israel” in the future.
[Brother Ian Day]
So, who comprise "all Israel" & how will all Israel be saved? Notice that the key expression is: “And so all Israel shall be saved.” That expression "And so..." relates to what has gone before, rather than what follows. The following quotations are to substantiate what Paul has been teaching, rather than to initiate a new prophecy.

1. Who comprise "all Israel"? Israel = Israelites, the biological descendants of Jacob-Israel. All = every single one at the time period wherein the prophecy applies.

2. How will all Israel be saved? The same way that every sinner since Adam and Eve have ever been saved -- through faith in the Lord God and His Savior.

3. Yes, the phrase, "And so . . .," does relate to what has gone before, that is -- to the truths of the verse that immediately precede it, Romans 11:25.

4. The following quotation from Isaiah is to substantiate what the apostle Paul stated under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit at the beginning of that very same sentence ("And so all Israel shall be saved"), which is not all the initiation of a "new" prophecy, but is a New Testament confirmation for the multitude of Old Testament prophecies that the Lord God had already made through His prophets unto the children of Israel.

All Israel (whoever) is saved when they believe. (... abide not still in unbelief.) Actually Paul makes an extraordinary statement:
"11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
Let's look at the grammar. "And so" indicates the procedure previously described - salvation by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, let us look at the grammar. Yes, the phrase, "And so . . .," refers back to the truths immediately previously described in the verse (and sentence) immediately previously presented (Romans 11:25) -- "that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." This is not a statement about "salvation by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ." Rather, this is a statement about the spiritual blindness "in part" that has happened and is now happening to the children of Israel. Such is the straightforward reading of the immediate context.

The mystery is the blindness of ethnic Israel resulting in the salvation of the Gentiles.

The mystery is the blindness "in part" of ethnic Israel, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

We would expect, once "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" Paul to write "And THEN all Israel shall be saved" so we tend to read what follows as a further prophecy, rather than an explanation.

No, we would only expect the apostle Paul to employ the adverb "then" if he is strictly presenting a sequence of events. However, if he is presenting the manner by which something is brought to pass or the reason for which something is brought to pass, then we would expect him to employ the adverb "so," which is just what he did under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit. At the present time, spiritual blindness "in part" has happened and is happening to the children of Israel. That spiritual condition of blindness "in part" will continue "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." However, when the event of "the fulness of the Gentiles" comes in, then the spiritual blindness "in part" that has happened and is happening to the children of Israel will be removed. "And so," through the very means and for the very reason that this spiritual blindness "in part" has been removed, "all Israel shall be saved." In fact, since the adverb "so" indicates the means or reason for something to come to pass, by definition it requires a sequence of events. First, the means or reason must happen (that is -- "the fulness of the Gentiles" must "come in"), then the result can occur (that is -- "And so all Israel shall be saved."). As such, the phrase, "And so . . .," does not indicate an explanation at all. Rather, it indicates a resulting event.

Paul has previously explained:
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Israel can expect a fulness, as well as the Gentiles, but is that fulness actually prophesied, or hypothetical?

Yes, the children of Israel certainly can expect "a fulness," as per the statement -- "And so all Israel shall be saved." That word "all" certainly does communicate "a fulness."

A possible meaning is that there will be a great Jewish revival before Jesus returns, resulting in great Gospel activity towards the Gentiles - fulness of both. We know that the Jewish persecution of the believing Jews resulted in the spread of the Gospel by the scattered Jews, first to other Jews, then to Gentiles. Acts 11:18-21 Many thousands of Jews believed, as recorded in Acts, so that the church comprised large numbers of Jews (including priests) before Gentiles began to be added. They ceased to be identified as "Jews" or "Israel" but became "Christians." The fall of the Jews was partial, & we are still waiting for the fulness of the Gentiles.

No, "a great Jewish revival," such that they engage in a "great Gospel activity toward the Gentiles," so that there might be a "fulness of both" at the same time, is not at all Biblically possible. The children of Israel cannot have "a fulness" until the spiritual blindness "in part" is removed from them. That spiritual blindness "in part" will not be removed from them "until" after "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Only then can "a fulness" happen for the children of Israel, even as the prophetic utterance will be fulfilled that "all Israel shall be saved." This is the straightforward truth of Romans 11:25-26 just as God the Holy Spirit inspired it.

[Pastor Scott Markle]
As such, all of these future tense verbs, both in the statement and in the quotation, were a reference to some event that would be future to the apostle’s writing of the epistle to the Romans. Yet our Lord Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection was already past tense at that point. Furthermore, the sending forth of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost was already past tense at that point. In fact, the entire first number of years of the church, wherein the church was comprised only of believing Israelites, was already past tense at that point. It would seem then that the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, could not have been speaking concerning any of those scenarios when he prophesied concerning an event wherein “all Israel shall be saved.”
[Brother Ian Day]
Reading Isaiah 59, it is a clear prophecy of the coming of Messiah - Jesus as recorded in the Gospels. He did confirm the covenant, & take away the sins of all who repented. The Jews continued to persecute Christians until the destruction. Whether Jewish persecution of Christians was significant after AD 70, so that in effect their enmity ceased, I don't know. Certainly all Israel shall be saved, & to date 60 generations of believing Jews & Gentiles have been saved so "all Israel" is indeed countless - as sand & stars. There is no specific prophecy for Israel after the flesh, except that they are saved when they believe.
He may not not be speaking of past scenarios, but he is speaking of salvation, & of course the future has been running for nearly 2,000 years.

There most certainly is specific prophecy "for Israel after the flesh," declared a multiple number of times in the Old Testament Scriptures and confirmed in Romans 11:26 -- "And so all Israel shall be saved." This is God's Own Word on the matter. Furthermore, when the apostle Paul delivered this prophetic utterance in Romans 11:26, the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ was years in the past. Yet the apostle Paul made this statement under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit in the future tense. The apostle delivered this prophetic utterance concerning the future for "all Israel" after first revealing under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit in the present tense (with a present perfect tense verb) the reality that spiritual "blindness in part is happened to Israel." In addition, the apostle revealed under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit that this spiritual blindness "in part" upon Israel would continue "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Each of these statement, as given by the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit Himself, indicate time periods and time sequences. So then, has "the fulness of the Gentiles" yet "come in"? If it has not, then the blindness "in part" is still even now happening to Israel. Furthermore, if it has not, then we are still awaiting the fulfillment of the Biblical prophecy that "all Israel shall" yet "be saved."

[Pastor Scott Markle]
Then in Romans 11:25-27 the apostle Paul revealed a Biblical mystery concerning the children of Israel, in order to warn believing Gentiles not to be wise in their own conceits against unbelieving Israelites. This Biblical mystery has three basic parts, as follows:
1. “That blindness in part is happened to Israel.” This report was presented by the apostle in the present tense. Therefore, this “in part” spiritual blindness had already begun for the children of Israel, and was a present reality for the children of Israel when the apostle wrote the epistle to the Romans. Now, it is important to notice that this spiritual blindness upon the children of Israel was not in total, but was only “in part.” This “in part” spiritual blindness still allows for a small remnant of the children of Israel to be saved through in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.
2. “Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” This phrase indicates the length of time wherein the “in part” spiritual blindness would continue for the children of Israel. That “in part” spiritual blindness would continue for the children of Israel until the occurrence and “coming in” of that event which is described as “the fulness of the Gentiles.”
3. “And so all Israel shall be saved.” The “and so” of this statement indicates an event that would occur following the event of “the fulness of the Gentiles.” Even so, this statement is presented in direct contrast to the report concerning the “in part” spiritual blindness upon the children of Israel. In the first place, this contrast is revealed by the two contrasting phrases, “in part . . . to Israel” and “all Israel.” In the second place, this contrast is revealed by the two contrasting phrases, “blindness . . . has happened” and “shall be saved.” It is also important to notice that the event described in this statement (“And so all Israel shall be saved.”) does not allow only for a small remnant to be saved, as in the case of the “in part” reality, but indicates that all of the children of Israel will be saved at whatever time this event would occur.
[Brother Ian Day]
"And so" relates to what has gone before, rather than what will happen. Sadly, by your reasoning, "all Israel" excludes 60 generations over 2,000 years. We can understand Paul meaning by "all Israel" all those saved by faith under the old covenant period, together with all those saved through the new covenant in the Deliverer's blood, together, of course, with believing Gentiles.

Indeed, as I have communicated above, the phrase, "And so . . ." does relate to the truths that come immediately before it in Romans 11:25; and it reveals a result that will follow after those things are completed -- "And so all Israel shall be saved." It is not by my reasoning. The Lord God of heaven and earth Himself has caused "blindness in part" to be happening unto and upon the children of Israel. I myself have had no say in the matter whatsoever at all. The Lord God did not ask for my opinion. He has done and shall continue to do whatsoever He has willed and does will to do. I am simply communicating that which He Himself has reported in His Holy Word that He has done and is doing.

Furthermore, you can only understand the apostle Paul to mean what you have stated above if you view the Biblical definition (or, even the New Testament definition) for the word "Israel" to be "believing Israelites." However, if you do view the definition of the word "Israel" as such, then I would ask -- Does it mean this in every case wherein we find it within the Holy Scriptures (or, even just in the New Testament)?

[Pastor Scott Markle]
Now, as I have indicated above, the quotation from Isaiah in Romans 11:26-27 is presented as an Old Testament Scriptural evidence for this statement that “all Israel shall be saved.” This is signaled by the word “as” in the phrase, “as it is written,” that immediate follows the statement that “all Israel shall be saved.” Even so, the apostle Paul was guided by God the Holy Spirit to understand that the event about which Isaiah spoke was the same event as that about which he was prophesying concerning the salvation of “all Israel.” Apparently in this event, the Deliverer, the Lord Jesus Christ, would “come out of Sion” in order to “turn away ungodliness from Jacob,” and in that to “turn away ungodliness” from all of Jacob, since this is supporting quote for the prophetic utterance that “all Israel shall be saved.” Yet had not the Deliverer, the Lord Jesus Christ, already come once. Certainly, he had; therefore, this prophetic utterance must be a reference to the Deliverer, the Lord Jesus Christ, coming again.
[Brother Ian Day]
When Jesus comes again, he will come from heaven. He came to Sion, was crucified outside the gate, rose from the dead & met with his disciples in Sion with his Kingdom teaching & the great commission. Acts 1. We need not see a future event but a continuous process until Jesus returns.

When our Lord Jesus Christ comes again, He will indeed come out from Heaven unto Zion. Furthermore, He will send forth from Zion unto the uttermost parts of the earth in order to call every single one of the children of Israel that are alive at that time back unto their land, as per the Old Testament prophecies of the Lord God's new covenant unto them.

If we desire to accept God's Own Word on the matter, we most certainly do need to look for a future event, as per the Holy Spirit inspired time elements that we find in Romans 11:25-27 -- (1) ". . . is happened . . .," (2) "until . . .," (3) "And so . . . shall be . . . ."

[Pastor Scott Markle]
With our Lord Jesus Christ’s first coming, spiritual darkness has fallen upon Israel “in part,” such that only a small remnant shall be saved. Furthermore, with our Lord Jesus Christ’s first coming, the gospel opportunity has been opened wide unto the Gentiles; and this reality shall continue “until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” However, when the event of “the fulness of the Gentiles” occurs, then shall follow the event wherein “all Israel shall be saved,” the event of our Lord Jesus Christ’s Second Coming wherein He will turn ungodliness completely and totally from “all Israel.” Yea, then shall come the event wherein God the Father fulfills His covenant with the children of Israel by which He has promised “to take away their sins,” completely and totally from all of them at that time.
[Brother Ian Day]
The remnant was't small - it was many thousands. They don't need another covenant, but to repent & trust in the new covenant in Jesus' blood.

The remnant is "small" when compared to the size of the whole, since the size of the whole is "as the sand of the sea" and "as the stars of heaven." Thousands is a fairly small number when compared to millions upon millions.

[Pastor Scott Markle]
Indeed, “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” What He has promised unto the children of Israel in His covenants with them as recorded in the Old Testament, He shall certainly fulfill. Yea, this He will do because He is by great, good, gracious, and glorious nature the ever true and faithful Lord God! Amen, and AMEN!!!
[Brother Ian Day]
Indeed, all the glorious covenant promises will be gloriously fulfilled in the NH&NE in a condition of perfect righteousness, for all those redeemed by Jesus' new covenant blood.
I do not see a prophecy of the wholesale conversion of ethnic Israel after Jesus returns. Now is the day of salvation. What I do see, as we read on in Romans is the inclusion of the Gentiles as prophesied. See Acts 15.

That is too bad, since God the Holy Spirit inspired the prophetic utterance that "all Israel shall be saved." Seems like God the Holy Spirit sees "the wholesale conversion of ethnic Israel after Jesus returns." Indeed, "there shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Edited June 16, 2015 by Pastor Scott Markle

Pastor Scott Markle · June 16, 2015

Concerning God’s Covenants & The Land Promise
(Part 1)
By Pastor Scott Markle
(www.shepherdingtheflock.com)

(For the introduction to this study see here. For the basic outline to this study see here.)

Now, let us engage in a study exercise wherein we shall apply this principle of “precise detail” to the land-promise elements within a number of Biblical covenants. I have chosen this subject for this study exercise specifically because it is a matter of controversy with regard to the fulfillment of the Lord God’s covenants. There is little controversy over whether both Israelites and Gentiles will experience the spiritual, salvation benefits of the New Covenant, if they place heart-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior from sin. On the other hand, there is much controversy over whether the land promises of the Old Testament covenants are still in force under the New Covenant. Let us consider?

1. The Lord God’s covenant with Abraham concerning “the land.”

Genesis 17:3-8 – “And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” (See also Genesis 12:1-3; Genesis 12:7; Genesis 13:14-17; Genesis 15:4-21; Genesis 22:15-18)

(Note: In the Lord God’s covenant with Abraham, there are many details concerning various things; however, for the sake of this exercise, I wish only to consider those details that relate to the land promise.)

A. Precisely to whom did the Lord God promise to give the land?

Answer – “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land . . . .”

B. Precisely what land did the Lord God promise to give unto Abraham and unto his seed after him?

Answer – “And I will give . . . the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession . . . .”

Also in Genesis 15:18-21 – “In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

C. Precisely what conditions did the Lord God place upon this land promise?

Answer – “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

The Lord God did not place any condition on this land promise. Any condition that needed to be met had already been met when Abraham believed and obeyed the Lord God to leave his country, kindred, and father’s house in order to go unto a land that the Lord God would show him. Rather, the Lord God presented that this land promise would have an everlasting force, in that He was promising the land as “an everlasting possession.”

Yet it is necessary at this point for us to consider the meaning and application of the word “possession.” On the one hand, the word possession can be used to mean that over which an individual has ownership. On the other hand, the word possession can also be used to mean that which an individual is actually holding in hand at the moment. To illustrate these two ideas, let us consider a book that is mine by ownership, but that I have lent out to another. If you were to ask me if I possess that particular book, I can answer either “yes” or “no,” depending on the meaning of your question. On the one hand, if you were asking me if I have ownership of that particular book, then the answer would be – “Yes, I do have ownership possession of that book.” On the other hand, if you were asking me if I was presently experiencing a reading benefit of that particular book, then the answer would be – “No, I am not having experiential possession of that book.”

What then did the Lord God mean when He employed the phrase, “everlasting possession,” in relation to His land promise unto Abraham and unto Abraham’s seed after him? Certainly, He did intend to communicate that Abraham’s descendants would sometime in the future enjoy experiential possession of the land. However, did the Lord God’s use of the phrase, “everlasting possession,” leave room for times wherein Abraham and his descendants might have ownership possession of the land without having experiential possession of the land? Yes, He did; for the Lord God indicated that He was giving the land unto Abraham himself, as well as unto Abraham’s seed after him. Yet Abraham himself never enjoyed full experiential possession of the land. In fact, within the very declaration of the covenant, the Lord God described Abraham’s personal relationship unto the land in the following manner – “the land wherein thou art a stranger.” So then, the phrase, “everlasting possession,” in this context appears definitely to indicate a continual (“everlasting”) ownership possession, but also appear to allow room for times wherein there is a lack of experiential possession.

2. The Lord God’s covenant with Isaac (Genesis 26:2-5) and with Jacob-Israel (Genesis 28:13-15) concerning “the land.”

These covenant statements are a repetition of the Lord God’s covenant with Abraham, being passed down specifically unto Abraham’s son Isaac, and then being passed down specifically unto Isaac’s son Jacob-Israel. There is nothing truly added by these covenant statements to that covenant statement which the Lord God had previously made unto Abraham. However, these covenant statements do reveal that the other descendants of Abraham (the children of Ishmael and the children of Midian) and the other descendants of Isaac (the children of Esau) are not included in this covenant and its promises, including the land promise.

(Note: The entire study is provided in the attachment below.)

Concerning Gods Covenants & The Land.pdf

Edited June 16, 2015 by Pastor Scott Markle

Pastor Scott Markle · June 16, 2015

I do express my apology. In the above posting, I should have included the second point at the original posting of the post. That second point is very closely related to the first point, and it is too short for it to simply stand alone as a posting by itself. I have now edited my posting to include the second point. If you read that posting prior to this moment, then you may want to see the additional point that has now been added.

Thank you all for your grace and patience with me in this matter.

Covenanter · June 16, 2015

Ian:
We can understand Paul meaning by "all Israel" all those saved by faith under the old covenant period, together with all those saved through the new covenant in the Deliverer's blood, together, of course, with believing Gentiles.
Bro. Scott
Furthermore, you can only understand the apostle Paul to mean what you have stated above if you view the Biblical definition (or, even the New Testament definition) for the word "Israel" to be "believing Israelites." However, if you do view the definition of the word "Israel" as such, then I would ask -- Does it mean this in every case wherein we find it within the Holy Scriptures (or, even just in the New Testament)?

If all Israel shall be saved the we need a Bibilical definition of "all Israel" that makes the prophetic statement true. It cannot mean all the physical descendants of Israel. It must mean what I have stated above. i.e. The Covenant promises to Israel are appropriated only by true believers, not by unbelievers, however much they claim descent from Abraham through Israel. John had harsh words for such - Mat. 3:7-12 while Jesus dismissed them as children of the devil. John 8:31-47

Moses warned the people of Israel of the consequences of not harkening to the Prophet (Messiah) in words that Peter took up to warn his hearers. Deu. 18:18-19 Acts 3:22-23

And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Clearly such are not my people. Read on in Acts, where after the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith; the unbelievers accuse Stephen, & by the Holy Spirit he declares them "uncircumcised." The old covenant is FINISHED. We have a new covenant in Jesus' blood.

You can read in John 4 what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman about Jerusalem centred temple worship.

You can read in Galatians the value of Jewish physical circumcision.

Gal. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. ²Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. ³For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. ⁴Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. ⁵For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. ⁶For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

In Philippians, Paul has some strong words against the Jewish enemies of the Gospel:

Phil. 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. ²Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. ³For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

It seems there was no synagogue in Philippi, & the church there comprised Greeks, so Paul could not be addressing them as Jews (Acts 16) yet even there the Jews had to be warned against. Paul called circumcision done in unbelief "concision." True circumcision is spiritual, of the heart, NOT physical. Paul's words are reminiscent of Jesus' words to the Samaritan:

John 4:²¹Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. ²²Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. ²³But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. ²⁴God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus, writing in Revelation warns: 3 ⁹Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie....

It is certainly true that "all Israel shall be saved" but that does not include those who claim to be Israel yet reject the LORD Jesus Christ. It can only mean all & only believers in Jesus, together with old covenant believers. There is NO other name. Acts 4:12

There are, of course many references to Israel as a nation, & promises to them & rebukes for unbelief, but true faith is essential to be saved members of "all Israel." Context will make the Scriptural intention clear.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Covenanter
Last paragraph added.

Pastor Scott Markle · June 16, 2015

[Brother Ian Day]
We can understand Paul meaning by "all Israel" all those saved by faith under the old covenant period, together with all those saved through the new covenant in the Deliverer's blood, together, of course, with believing Gentiles.
[Pastor Scott Markle]
Furthermore, you can only understand the apostle Paul to mean what you have stated above if you view the Biblical definition (or, even the New Testament definition) for the word "Israel" to be "believing Israelites." However, if you do view the definition of the word "Israel" as such, then I would ask -- Does it mean this in every case wherein we find it within the Holy Scriptures (or, even just in the New Testament)?
[Brother Ian Day]
If all Israel shall be saved the we need a Bibilical definition of "all Israel" that makes the prophetic statement true. It cannot mean all the physical descendants of Israel. It must mean what I have stated above. i.e. The Covenant promises to Israel are appropriated only by true believers, not by unbelievers, however much they claim descent from Abraham through Israel.

1. The prophetic utterance concerning "all Israel" in Romans 11:26-27 cannot refer to the Isrealite believers of the Old Testament time because that prophetic utterance is presented in the future tense to the apostle Paul's time, whereas the Isrealite believers of the Old Testament were in the past tense to the apostle Paul's time.

2. The prophetic utterance concerning "all Israel" in Romans 11:26-27 cannot refer to the Israelite believers of this time of the New Testament church because this time is in the present tense wherein spiritual "blindness in part is happened to Israel," as per Romans 11:25. Such Israelite believers of this time of the New Testament church would comprise the other part upon whom spiritual blindness has not happened.

3. The prophetic utterance concerning "all Israel" in Romans 11:26-27 cannot refer to Gentile believers of any time because the term "Israel" is never made equivalent in God's Word to Gentiles.

4. The prophetic utterance concerning "all Israel" in Romans 11:26-27 can refer to every single physical descendant of Jacob-Israel that will be alive on the whole earth at the future time wherein the fulfillment of this future prophetic event will occur, if in fact every single physical descendant of Jacob-Israel that is alive on the whole earth at that time places heart-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

Now, since God the Holy Spirit inspired the future tense helping verb "shall be," I will believe that this will be a future event. And since God the Holy Spirit inspired the noun "Israel," I will believe that this refers to the physical descendants of Jacob-Israel. And since God the Holy Spirit inspired the adjective "all" as a modifier for the noun "Israel," I will believe that this future event will occur in relation to every single physical descendant of Jacob-Israel who is alive at that time. And since God the Holy Spirit inspired the full future tense verb "shall be saved," I will believe that every single physical descendant of Jacob-Israel who is alive at that time will be saved through the only Biblical means for eternal salvation, through heart-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. And so (a phrase that indicates a resulting conclusion from that which has come before it), I will also believe that every single physical descendant of Jacob-Israel who is alive at that time will come to heart-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, which belief on my part is in perfect unity with the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Lord God's new covenant unto the children of Israel. And so also, I will believe that the prophetic utterance of Romans 11:26-27 is a New Testament confirmation for those Old Testament prophecies concerning the Lord God's new covenant promises (including the physical land promises) unto the children of Israel, which new covenant has not yet been fulfilled unto the children of Israel, but shall yet be fulfilled unto them.

(Note: Although we are now in the time of New Covenant blessings in relation to the church, such that any individual sinner, whether Israelite or Gentile, experiences the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, the full new covenant promise unto the children of Israel themselves has not yet been engaged or fulfilled. As a people group they are now in a time of spiritual darkness "in part;" they are not in their time of full new covenant promise. However, that time of new covenant fullness for them is yet to come when our Lord Jesus Christ returns in His Second Coming, wherein "all Israel" at that time shall be gathered unto Him and unto their land from wherever they are scattered throughout the whole earth, wherein "all Israel" at that time shall experience eternal salvation and complete conversion, and wherein "all Israel" at that time shall experience and enjoy the full possession and blessings of their promised land. "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.")

MountainChristian · June 16, 2015

If all Israel shall be saved the we need a Bibilical definition of "all Israel" that makes the prophetic statement true. It cannot mean all the physical descendants of Israel. It must mean what I have stated above. i.e. The Covenant promises to Israel are appropriated only by true believers, not by unbelievers, however much they claim descent from Abraham through Israel. John had harsh words for such - Mat. 3:7-12 while Jesus dismissed them as children of the devil. John 8:31-47
Moses warned the people of Israel of the consequences of not harkening to the Prophet (Messiah) in words that Peter took up to warn his hearers. Deu. 18:18-19 Acts 3:22-23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Clearly such are not my people. Read on in Acts, where after the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith; the unbelievers accuse Stephen, & by the Holy Spirit he declares them "uncircumcised." The old covenant is FINISHED. We have a new covenant in Jesus' blood.
You can read in John 4 what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman about Jerusalem centred temple worship.
You can read in Galatians the value of Jewish physical circumcision.
Gal. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. ²Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. ³For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. ⁴Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. ⁵For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. ⁶For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
In Philippians, Paul has some strong words against the Jewish enemies of the Gospel:
Phil. 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. ²Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. ³For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
It seems there was no synagogue in Philippi, & the church there comprised Greeks, so Paul could not be addressing them as Jews (Acts 16) yet even there the Jews had to be warned against. Paul called circumcision done in unbelief "concision." True circumcision is spiritual, of the heart, NOT physical. Paul's words are reminiscent of Jesus' words to the Samaritan:
John 4:²¹Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. ²²Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. ²³But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. ²⁴God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus, writing in Revelation warns: 3 ⁹Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie....
It is certainly true that "all Israel shall be saved" but that does not include those who claim to be Israel yet reject the LORD Jesus Christ. It can only mean all & only believers in Jesus, together with old covenant believers. There is NO other name. Acts 4:12
There are, of course many references to Israel as a nation, & promises to them & rebukes for unbelief, but true faith is essential to be saved members of "all Israel." Context will make the Scriptural intention clear.

Unable to define "thy people" and trying over and over to include other people groups, is being repeating with "all Israel". Paul is a teacher who included us gentile peoples in his teachings but this time he chose to leave us out. Why? The Holy Spirit told him to leave us gentiles out. It makes my heart rejoice that a group of Israelis are going to be saved.

Satan doesn't want any group of people saved including this group of Israelis. Arguing that Paul being used by the Holy Ghost is incorrect and there isn't a group of Israelis who Jesus is going to save is just plain wrong. That alone is proof replacement theology is from Hell. It proves this perverted version of new covenant theology doesn't include Israelis, and that too proves its from Hell.

As a Christian I don't understand how any Christian could be so antisemitic they wouldn't want Jesus to save a group of Israelis. This is proof of replacement theology. If Paul had said a group of gentiles was going to be saved that would be accepted, because its accepted when Paul turned to a gentile ministry in Acts.

On a personal note, it puts a very dark spot on Ian's teaching 99.9% of the Bible is in the past. If Ian was correct, and if it was from God, he would say "They was saved" not they are a different group. Its another example of Ian defeating himself with his past doctrine, here and in the debate. Could this be an example of God defeating the past doctrine?

Edited June 16, 2015 by MountainChristian
spelling

Covenanter · June 17, 2015

Mountain Christian - if you had read my post, & studied the cited Scriptures, you would not have written such rubbish.

Covenanter · June 17, 2015

Bro Scott, It would be more convincing if you responded to what I wrote, with proper consideration of the Scriptures quoted.

If all Israel shall be saved the we need a Bibilical definition of "all Israel" that makes the prophetic statement true. It cannot mean all the physical descendants of Israel. It must mean what I have stated above. i.e. The Covenant promises to Israel are appropriated only by true believers, not by unbelievers, however much they claim descent from Abraham through Israel. John had harsh words for such - Mat. 3:7-12 while Jesus dismissed them as children of the devil. John 8:31-47

Moses warned the people of Israel of the consequences of not harkening to the Prophet (Messiah) in words that Peter took up to warn his hearers. Deu. 18:18-19 Acts 3:22-23

And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Clearly such are not my people. Read on in Acts, where after the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith; the unbelievers accuse Stephen, & by the Holy Spirit he declares them "uncircumcised." The old covenant is FINISHED. We have a new covenant in Jesus' blood.

You can read in John 4 what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman about Jerusalem centred temple worship.

That's enough for a start. I am not being antisemitic - the Gospel is wide open to all nations including Israel & the Jews. All persecution, religious or other, is abhorrent.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Covenanter
Last 2 sentences added.

Invicta · June 17, 2015

Ian. I cannot agree with you that all Israel mean the church Many years ago I head somebody say that All Israel is the church. I couldn't see it then and I cannot see it now. They say that all Israel means all the elect which means the church. But we know that all the elect will be saved. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Covenanter · June 18, 2015

Ian. I cannot agree with you that all Israel mean the church Many years ago I head somebody say that All Israel is the church. I couldn't see it then and I cannot see it now. They say that all Israel means all the elect which means the church. But we know that all the elect will be saved. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Where did I say "all Israel mean the church?" If you were to quote what you are replying to, you post would be clearer.

Pastor Scott Markle · June 18, 2015

Bro Scott, It would be more convincing if you responded to what I wrote, with proper consideration of the Scriptures quoted.
If all Israel shall be saved the we need a Bibilical definition of "all Israel" that makes the prophetic statement true. It cannot mean all the physical descendants of Israel. It must mean what I have stated above. i.e. The Covenant promises to Israel are appropriated only by true believers, not by unbelievers, however much they claim descent from Abraham through Israel. John had harsh words for such - Mat. 3:7-12 while Jesus dismissed them as children of the devil. John 8:31-47
Moses warned the people of Israel of the consequences of not harkening to the Prophet (Messiah) in words that Peter took up to warn his hearers. Deu. 18:18-19 Acts 3:22-23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Clearly such are not my people. Read on in Acts, where after the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith; the unbelievers accuse Stephen, & by the Holy Spirit he declares them "uncircumcised." The old covenant is FINISHED. We have a new covenant in Jesus' blood.
You can read in John 4 what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman about Jerusalem centred temple worship.

That's enough for a start. I am not being antisemitic - the Gospel is wide open to all nations including Israel & the Jews. All persecution, religious or other, is abhorrent.

Brother Day,

From my perspective, there was no need for me to deal with the various passages that you presented since none of them were in the immediate context of Romans 11:25-27. Furthermore, all of those passages that you presented were based upon your premise, which was as follows: "If all Israel shall be saved then we need a Bibilical definition of "all Israel" that makes the prophetic statement true. It cannot mean all the physical descendants of Israel. It must mean what I have stated above. i.e. The Covenant promises to Israel are appropriated only by true believers, not by unbelievers, however much they claim descent from Abraham through Israel." Basically, your premise was that an alternate definition for the phrase "all Israel" in Romans 11:26 was needed because the natural definition could not be legitimate within this context. Therefore, it was only necessary for me to focus my argument against your premise (and not upon the various passages that you based upon it) by demonstrating that the natural definition for the phrase "all Israel" certainly can and does have legitimacy within the context of Romans 11:25-27. As such, the issue was not over your alternate definition itself. Rather, the issue was over whether an alternate definition was even necessary at all. By undercutting your foundational premise, I cause all of the arguments and/or passages that you build upon it to become irrelevant.

This is a basic principle of good "debate." Do not seek to cut down your "opponent's" tree (position) one limb (point) at a time. Rather, seek to cut down your "opponent's" tree (position) at the trunk (foundational premises). In so doing, you do not have to put forth the extensive effort and spend the extensive time to deal with all of the multiplied and extraneous limbs (points) of your "opponent's" tree. Rather, by cutting down your opponent's tree (position) at the trunk (foundational premises), you bring down the entire tree (position), including all of the multiplied and extraneous limbs (points).

(Note: I myself have never accused you of being anti-semitic. I simply believe that you are unbiblical -- even as you believe that I am unbiblical.)

Pastor Scott Markle · June 23, 2015

Concerning God’s Covenants & The Land Promise
(Part 2)
By Pastor Scott Markle
(www.shepherdingtheflock.com)

(For the introduction to this study see here. For the basic outline to this study see here. For the first part of this study see here.)

3. The Lord God’s covenant with the children of Israel concerning “the land.”

In Exodus 19 the Lord God made a covenant with the children of Israel. The various elements of that covenant then continue throughout the books of Exodus and Leviticus, wherein the Lord God gave instructions concerning the sacrificial system and the societal behavior of the children of Israel. Concerning the land, the Lord God continually made promise that He would lead the children unto the land and that He would go before them and fight for them against the inhabitants of the land, in order that the children of Israel might take experiential possession of the land. However, the first generation of the children of Israel after the deliverance from Egypt rebelled against the Lord God at Kadesh-barnea and were cursed to wander in the wilderness for an additional forty years.

Even so, at the end of that forty year wandering, the servant of the Lord Moses reiterated the covenant and the law unto the second generation of the children of Israel after the deliverance from Egypt. This we find in the book of Deuteronomy; and at the end of this book, we also find promise statements, both positive and negative, concerning “the land.”

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 – “And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: and all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.”

Deuteronomy 28:8-14 – “The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow. And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: and thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”

Deuteronomy 28:15 – “But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee.”

Deuteronomy 28:21 – “The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.”

Deuteronomy 28:25 – “The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.”

Deuteronomy 28:36-37 – “The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.”

Deuteronomy 28:45-47 – “Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things.”

Deuteronomy 28:62-64 – “And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.”

(Note: In the Lord God’s covenant with the children of Israel, there are many details concerning various things; however, for the sake of this exercise, I wish only to consider those details that relate to the land promise.)

A. Precisely what conditions did the Lord God place upon the land promise of blessing?

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 – “And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: and all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.”

Deuteronomy 28:13-14 – “And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: and thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”

B. Precisely what consequence did the Lord God proclaim if they did not meet His conditions for the land promise of blessing?

In Deuteronomy 28:21 He indicated that He would consume them “from off the land;” in Deuteronomy 28:25 He indicated that He would remove them “into all the kingdoms of the earth;” in Deuteronomy 28:36 He indicated that He would bring them unto a nation which they had not known; and in Deuteronomy 28:63-64 He indicated that He would pluck them “from off the land” and would scatter them “among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other.”

On the one hand, in this covenant the Lord God clearly presented a condition for the experiential possession of the land and its benefits. That condition was faithful obedience. On the other hand, in this covenant the Lord God also clearly presented a consequence for disobedience. That consequence included, among many other curses, the loss of the experiential possession of the land and its benefits.

4. The Lord God’s covenant with the children of Israel concerning restoration to “the land.”

Indeed, in this covenant the Lord God also delivered a provision for restoration unto the land and its benefits after the curses had been administered against them. This provision for restoration is presented in Deuteronomy 30:1-10 – “And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, and shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; that then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: and the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.”

A. Precisely what condition did the Lord God establish for this restoration to the land?

Deuteronomy 30:1-2 – “And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, and shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.”

Deuteronomy 30:10 – “If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.”

B. Precisely what blessings did the Lord God promise to administer personally for them in this restoration?

(1) To restore them unto the land.

Deuteronomy 30:3-5 – “That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: and the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.”

(2) To bless them abundantly in the land.

Deuteronomy 30:5b – “And he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.”

Deuteronomy 30:9 – “And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers.”

(3) To convert their hearts unto loving obedience.

Deuteronomy 30:6 – “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.”

Deuteronomy 30:8 – “And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.” (Note: This verse is not presented as a conditional requirement, as in the cases of verses 1-2 & 10, but as a promised result, which seems to flow from the promise of verse 6.)

(4) To curse their enemies that persecuted them.

Deuteronomy 30:7 – “And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.”

(Note: It is interesting that some wish to consider the “conversion” blessing as being valid, while considering the other three promised blessings of restoration as being invalid. If any one of these promised blessings is invalid, then all four of these promised blessings must be viewed as invalid; for all four of these promised blessings of restoration are founded upon the same conditions.)

Concerning Gods Covenants & The Land.pdf

Pastor Scott Markle · July 3, 2015

Concerning God’s Covenants & The Land Promise
(Part 3 - The Final Part)
By Pastor Scott Markle
(www.shepherdingtheflock.com)

(For the introduction to this study see here. For the basic outline to this study see here. For the first part of this study see here. For the second part of this study see here.)

5. The Lord God’s new covenant with the children of Israel concerning “the land.”

Jeremiah 31:31-40 – “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner. And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath. And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.”

Jeremiah 32:37-42 – “Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: and I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: and I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.”

Ezekiel 36:21-38 – “But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.”

Ezekiel 37:19-28 – “Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.”

A. Precisely with whom will the Lord God make this new covenant?

Jeremiah 31:1 – “At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.”

Jeremiah 31:31 – “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.”

Ezekiel 36:22a – “Therefore say unto the house of Israel . . . .”

Ezekiel 37:19 – “Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.”

B. Precisely what covenant with the children of Israel (including both the houses of Israel and of Judah) will the Lord God’s new covenant replace?

Jeremiah 31:31-32 – “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD.”

C. Precisely what condition has the Lord God placed upon this new covenant with the children of Israel (including both the houses of Israel and of Judah)?

Jeremiah 31:18-19 – “I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.” (Note that this is in perfect unity with Deuteronomy 30:1-2 concerning the condition for restoration.)

Ezekiel 36:32 – “Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.”

D. Precisely what motivation moved the Lord God to determine to make this new covenant with the children of Israel (including both the houses of Israel and of Judah)?

(1) Jeremiah 31:3 – “The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.”

(2) Ezekiel 36:21-23 – “But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.”

(3) Ezekiel 36:36 – “Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.”

Ezekiel 37:28 – “And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.”

(4) Ezekiel 36:38 – “As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.”

Ezekiel 39:22 – “So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.”

E. Precisely what assurance did the Lord God give that He would make and fulfill this new covenant with the children of Israel (including both the houses of Israel and of Judah)?

Jeremiah 30:10-11 – “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

Jeremiah 31:35-37 – “Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.”

Ezekiel 36:36 – “Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.”

F. Precisely what spiritual blessings will the Lord God provide in this new covenant with the children of Israel (including both the houses of Israel and of Judah)?

(1) Forgiveness

Jeremiah 31:34 – “And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

(2) Cleansing

Ezekiel 36:25 – “Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.”

Ezekiel 36:29a – “I will also save you from all your uncleannesses.”

Ezekiel 36:33 – “Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.”

Ezekiel 37:23 – “Neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.”

(3) Complete Conversion (Note that this is in perfect unity with Deuteronomy 30:6, 8 concerning the blessing of restoration.)

Jeremiah 31:33 – “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Jeremiah 32:39 – “And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: and I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

Ezekiel 36:26-27 – “ A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

Ezekiel 36:31 – “Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.”

Ezekiel 37:23-24 – “Neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.”

(4) Fellowship

Jeremiah 31:33 – “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Jeremiah 32:38 – “And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.”

Ezekiel 36:28 – “And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.”

Ezekiel 37:23 – “Neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.”

Ezekiel 37:27 – “My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

G. Precisely what land blessings will the Lord God provide in this new covenant with the children of Israel (including both the houses of Israel and of Judah)?

(Note: By completely converting the children of Israel, the Lord God will cause them to fulfill the condition for restoration unto the land as given in Deuteronomy 30:1-2, 10. Furthermore, by so converting the children of Israel that they will never again depart from Him into disobedience, the Lord God will cause them to fulfill the condition for the continual experiential possession of the land and its benefits. In fact, according to Ezekiel 36:33 the complete conversion of the children of Israel and the restoration unto the land will occur on the very same day – “Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.”)

(1) The building up and “for ever” protection of Jerusalem as holy unto the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:38-40 – “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner. And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath. And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.”

(2) The gathering of all the children of Israel to be returned unto the land. (Note that this is in perfect unity with Deuteronomy 30:3-5 concerning the blessing of restoration.)

Jeremiah 32:37 – “Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.”

Ezekiel 36:24 – “For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.”

Ezekiel 37:21 – “And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land.”

(3) The planting of the children of Israel in the land, never again to be removed or oppressed.

Jeremiah 32:37 – “Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.”

Jeremiah 32:41 – “Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.”

Ezekiel 36:28 – “And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.”

Ezekiel 36:33 – “Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.”

Ezekiel 36:37-38 – “Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.”

Ezekiel 37:25 – “And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.”

(4) The blessing of the children of Israel with abundance in the land. (Note that this is in perfect unity with Deuteronomy 30:5, 9 concerning the blessing of restoration.)

Jeremiah 32:40-42 – “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.”

Ezekiel 36:29-30 – “I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.”

Ezekiel 36:34-35 – “And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.”

(5) The uniting of the house of Israel and the house of Judah into one kingdom that shall never again be divided.

Ezekiel 37:22 – “And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.”

Ezekiel 37:24 – “And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.”

(It is worthy of notice that the conditions and provisions of this new covenant correspond to the provision for restoration that the Lord God presented unto the children of Israel in Deuteronomy 30:1-10)

(Note: The entire study is provided in the attachment below.)

Concerning Gods Covenants & The Land.pdf

Covenanter · July 9, 2015

Bro Scott, I have studied your PDF & am concerned that there is no consideration of the New Testament/Covenant in Jesus' blood, the blood of the everlasting covenant, nor of the new heaven & new earth, nor of any NT Scriptures relating to the various passages quoted. The only reference to Jesus is:

"Now, let us engage in a study exercise wherein we shall apply this principle of “precise detail” to the land-promise elements within a number of Biblical covenants. I have chosen this subject for this study exercise specifically because it is a matter of controversy with regard to the fulfillment of the Lord God’s covenants. There is little controversy over whether both Israelites and Gentiles will experience the spiritual, salvation benefits of the New Covenant, if they place heart-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior from sin. On the other hand, there is much controversy over whether the land promises of the Old Testament covenants are still in force under the New Covenant."

Note particularly Acts 3:

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

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