Tragedy

[John81]

if he expelled and you decided not to send him to a home. You could talk to the social worker into homeschooling again.
Personally, I think it's better than sending him to a school for trouble boys.. but I don't know.

i agree that could be that he is scared and don't know how to pick up the pieces he broken. It might help if you tell him we'll try again tomorrow and have a fresh start and forget what happen today. but I don't know. My own son gets in a cycle where once he got himself in trouble, he doesn't know how to end it. It like he feels bad that he got himself into it in the first place and just basically want to give up trying, probably just want to hide forever or something. He's a real nervous little guy. I usually give him award sheet though (he is 7 years old) and it seem to help him alot.

We are going to return to homeschooling while we wait to find out more about the Christian Youth Recovery Program.

The Christian Home we want to send him to isn't filled with just troubled boys. There are also local children who attend the school as well as other children. It's not a boys home either, there are boys and girls in attendance, but naturally they have separate housing and appropriate separation is maintained.

The problems with him have been ongoing for years and building rather than getting better. My wife and I had hoped and prayed he would grow out of some of this and that he would accept Christ as his Saviour but neither have happened. Instead, he's become more defiant and more insistent that it should be okay for him to do whatever he wants simpley because he wants to and that any rules that go against what he wants are not something he cares to obey.

He has specifically rejected accepting Christ as his Saviour because he wants to do whatever he wants to do rather than obey the Word of God. :sad

[bzmomo7]

We are going to return to homeschooling while we wait to find out more about the Christian Youth Recovery Program.

The Christian Home we want to send him to isn't filled with just troubled boys. There are also local children who attend the school as well as other children. It's not a boys home either, there are boys and girls in attendance, but naturally they have separate housing and appropriate separation is maintained.

The problems with him have been ongoing for years and building rather than getting better. My wife and I had hoped and prayed he would grow out of some of this and that he would accept Christ as his Saviour but neither have happened. Instead, he's become more defiant and more insistent that it should be okay for him to do whatever he wants simpley because he wants to and that any rules that go against what he wants are not something he cares to obey.

He has specifically rejected accepting Christ as his Saviour because he wants to do whatever he wants to do rather than obey the Word of God. :sad

So, he doesn't feel remorse over his choices........how does he feel about the consequences of them? Is he unhappy about negative consequences or does he feel "it was worth it"--getting to do what he wanted? If it were the latter, I'd think your choice of the Christian home, at least for the time being, is a good idea. Maybe your son needs to see from the other side of the fence, what a very good home he comes from, and how lucky he is.

[Guest Guest]

So, he doesn't feel remorse over his choices........how does he feel about the consequences of them? Is he unhappy about negative consequences or does he feel "it was worth it"--getting to do what he wanted? If it were the latter, I'd think your choice of the Christian home, at least for the time being, is a good idea. Maybe your son needs to see from the other side of the fence, what a very good home he comes from, and how lucky he is.

I was thinking the same thing...bzmomo7. I have used this one with my son. I have taken him to the inner-city where I used to teach and told him that he could live there (the projects). I put him out of the car at an orphanage when he was in his ferocious 4's. I took him to city hall once to talk to a police officer when he was 12. He thinks his dad is though? LOL. Hmmm...I have done some other things. He called me "evil" to the family for about 6 months when he was younger. hehe. A Christian friend of mine told me that if your child doesn't say that they hate you...at least once...or do something that would really shock you to know end...then, you better improve your parenting skills. She has 3 kids of her own. They tow the line.


John...I think you and your wife are doing the right thing. Just stay strong and keep up the good work!! :wave:

[HappyChristian]

Hey, John - as I was reading this and thinking about consequences I thought about something I've heard done. Have you ever considered taking him to visit a prison? I don't know if there is one around you, but if there is, maybe you could talk to the warden and you guys could tour the parts that the public can see. I remember visiting one once (not because I was in trouble, okay? :Green ). It was sobering even at my young age to feel the doors closing behind me and knowing that if I were a prisoner here I wouldn't be leaving. It's not something that will draw him to Christ, necessarily, but it might help him to understand more fully the consequences of actions. Especially if you just talk to him a little bit about how breaking rules and doing our own thing at home usually leads to breaking laws and doing our own thing in society which in turn leads to prison. And no-one in their right minds would want to live in a cage.

Don't know if this would help, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.

[Guest Guest]

Hey, John - as I was reading this and thinking about consequences I thought about something I've heard done. Have you ever considered taking him to visit a prison? I don't know if there is one around you, but if there is, maybe you could talk to the warden and you guys could tour the parts that the public can see. I remember visiting one once (not because I was in trouble, okay? :Green ). It was sobering even at my young age to feel the doors closing behind me and knowing that if I were a prisoner here I wouldn't be leaving. It's not something that will draw him to Christ, necessarily, but it might help him to understand more fully the consequences of actions. Especially if you just talk to him a little bit about how breaking rules and doing our own thing at home usually leads to breaking laws and doing our own thing in society which in turn leads to prison. And no-one in their right minds would want to live in a cage.

Don't know if this would help, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.

LuAnne. Yes..I have heard that this is effective. It is called..."Scared Straight."

[deafnva77]

A Christian friend of mine told me that if your child doesn't say that they hate you...at least once...or do something that would really shock you to know end...then, you better improve your parenting skills. She has 3 kids of her own. They tow the line.

That would make sense if the child is used to getting his way all the time. Although a child shouldn't use the word hate.. but some will just stamp his feet or groan or argue.

[trc123]

When I was Youth Pastor (many many years ago) in Upstate New York I used to take the troubled male teenagers to the local county sheriff's jail (I was the Prison Minister too) and we did the Scared Straight routine. The young man would be processed and spend a good portion of the day with the staff and select inmates who had been saved for a bit.

The real shocker for most of them was the full body search, the loss of freedom when the doors closed behind them and the lack of a door for using the toilet. Most came out of that with a changed attitude. You have to be careful with this though as remember, inmates are there for a reason!

[John81]

So, he doesn't feel remorse over his choices........how does he feel about the consequences of them? Is he unhappy about negative consequences or does he feel "it was worth it"--getting to do what he wanted? If it were the latter, I'd think your choice of the Christian home, at least for the time being, is a good idea. Maybe your son needs to see from the other side of the fence, what a very good home he comes from, and how lucky he is.

No, no remorse over his choices, not even an admition he did wrong or acknowledging that he made wrong choices.

As to the consequences, they have never seemed to bother him other than the fact he thinks he's being wrongly punished. He seems to figure that the since the consequences come after he's already done what he wanted they don't matter and he knows as soon as he decides to do something else he shouldn't that he'll just do it with no regard of the consequences. So yeah, I'd say he feels "it was worth it" because he doesn't care about the consequences.

[John81]

He's never been inside a prison, but we have looked at two different prisons from the outside. One a max prison that looks like an ancient fort and one a medium prison where you could see the convicts on the yard. He's also seen real prisons on TV.

He absolutely doesn't want to go to prison, however he always feels justified in doing what he shouldn't be doing so he never thinks such will happen to him.

[Guest Guest]

My mom said that I was the only child of her 4 children that said that to her. She made me feel real bad, too...for saying that. I NEVER would have said that to my dad, though. LOL. My mom told me when I became an adult that she was a rebel with her mom, too. She loves the statement..."Revenge is being a grandparent." She says it jokingly, though. Well...as the old saying goes "The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree." Ya, know. When he told me this...I replied..."I am so sorry to hear that Mark...because I love you very, very much. Words can't even express my love for you." He was stunned and amazed to here me say these words. He was very young, and I took it for what it was worth. Frustration/anger with his dad and I being divorced. Whatever works is my motto with each child that a parent raises. Mark's half sister Sarah is so different. I have NEVER had any trouble with her. Her parents have, though. LOL. Go figure. hehe.


Yes...deafvna...the tantrums are another big issue, too. :smile

[deafnva77]

he is in denial

[bzmomo7]

No, no remorse over his choices, not even an admition he did wrong or acknowledging that he made wrong choices.

As to the consequences, they have never seemed to bother him other than the fact he thinks he's being wrongly punished. He seems to figure that the since the consequences come after he's already done what he wanted they don't matter and he knows as soon as he decides to do something else he shouldn't that he'll just do it with no regard of the consequences. So yeah, I'd say he feels "it was worth it" because he doesn't care about the consequences.

That's what I thought I was hearing from your other posts--I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading into them. I'm sorry, John, what a heartbreak it must be for you and your wife. Will pray fervently for Tim's salvation. Is your other son saved? I'm not even sure how old he is?

[Guest Guest]

When I was Youth Pastor (many many years ago) in Upstate New York I used to take the troubled male teenagers to the local county sheriff's jail (I was the Prison Minister too) and we did the Scared Straight routine. The young man would be processed and spend a good portion of the day with the staff and select inmates who had been saved for a bit.

The real shocker for most of them was the full body search, the loss of freedom when the doors closed behind them and the lack of a door for using the toilet. Most came out of that with a changed attitude. You have to be careful with this though as remember, inmates are there for a reason!

From what I understand "Scared Straight" has always had a high success rate. I don't know the current success rates, though. Yes...there is always a Prison Minister. I can see you doing this trc.


The juvenile correctional facitlies in OH...have a non-denominational pastor, but...IFB pastors can preach to the teens here. I went to one with my church youth...and a missionary IFB gave the sermon...2 young ladies were saved that night. Praise the Lord! :)

[JerryNumbers]

Hey, John - as I was reading this and thinking about consequences I thought about something I've heard done. Have you ever considered taking him to visit a prison? I don't know if there is one around you, but if there is, maybe you could talk to the warden and you guys could tour the parts that the public can see. I remember visiting one once (not because I was in trouble, okay? :Green ). It was sobering even at my young age to feel the doors closing behind me and knowing that if I were a prisoner here I wouldn't be leaving. It's not something that will draw him to Christ, necessarily, but it might help him to understand more fully the consequences of actions. Especially if you just talk to him a little bit about how breaking rules and doing our own thing at home usually leads to breaking laws and doing our own thing in society which in turn leads to prison. And no-one in their right minds would want to live in a cage.

Don't know if this would help, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.

Even the country jail would do. :thumb

[JerryNumbers]

I have a good friend whose grandson got into some kind of trouble, it saddened my heart.

His mother died of cancer a few years back and I visited her in her home for about 2 years, of course doing this I was around their son Jeffery quite a bit.

But Jeffery went thru so much, his mother died when he was about 13 or 14. One night he saw his dad hold a gun to his mothers head and say, "Get up and walk or I'll kill you." At this time she could not ever stand on her own.

Them he turned the gun to his head and said, "Get up and walk or I'll kill myself."

Finally he left with Jeffery and his younger daughter who was about 2 at the time telling her she would never see them again. Long story short, she did get to see here children many times after that.

Jeffery was sent to a military type school, after graduation he entered the Army, and now is in Iraq. According to his grandmother the military type school helped a lot.

There is just no easy answers to such a problem.