Matthew 24

[Invicta]

 

v. 21 says that this period of "tribulation" would be the worst period of time EVER.  So then, if this is to be understood literally, there has never been a period of intense persecution worse than this 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem???  WOW!  That is a r e a l  s t r e t c h.

 

 

 

No it doesn't say that at all. You have misquoted scripture again, bro.   It says:  21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. It was a tribulation which was different in kind, not a difference in intensity.    I posted the details on a thread sometime ago, when God punished the Jews for killing their king. And you are wrong also in its intensity, because this tribulation has continued on and off for nearly 2,000 years.  

[DaveW]

Would you care to explain how it was different in kind to any tribulation that had been suffered?

[Covenanter]

Would you care to explain how it was different in kind to any tribulation that had been suffered?

It was God's wrath against those of his people who persistently rejected the promised One, their Messiah, and the Apostolic Gospel of salvation in Jesus' name. They rejected the LORD Jesus Christ having seen him, seen his miracles, seen miracles in his name performed by the Apostles, & rejected the witness of the Holy Spirit against them, through Stephen. 

 

Jesus warned them "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."

 

Peter reminded them of Moses' Messianic promise: 

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

Paul wrote of them:

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

 

And no, Invicta, NOT 2,000 years of the GREAT tribulation because it was the sentence specifically against "this generation." That pouring out of God's wrath was completed:

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. 

 

The wrath of a corrupt church against the Jews, & those who identify themselves as Jews, is NOT the continuing wrath of God against the nation that rejected Jesus. Like all unbelievers, they are condemned already, & called to repent & believe in Jesus by the declared love of God.

 

In NT times many thousands of Jews, in Jerusalem & Judea & around the empire welcomed the Gospel proclaimed by the Apostles. Those who stayed in Jerusalem saw the signs of coming destruction & fled the city. These believing Jews, true Israel, became the church , & (reluctantly) accepted believing Gentiles into their number without circumcision. That increased the hatred against them. God's Israel, both Jew & Gentile, are reckoned as children of Abraham by faith. Gal. 3:26-29

 

That specific great trib occurred in the run-up to the AD 70 destruction. Never again. But there will be a final judgement when the LORD Jesus returns for resurrection & judgement. 

[DaveW]

That is not A different kind of tribulation.
You are talking about cause.
But in any case I was not asking you.
You and Invicta OBviously have differing views on this and in that point your answer is unnecessary, irrelevant, and unwanted.
Not to mention total rubbish in my opinion.

[Covenanter]

That is not A different kind of tribulation.
You are talking about cause.
But in any case I was not asking you.
You and Invicta OBviously have differing views on this and in that point your answer is unnecessary, irrelevant, and unwanted.
Not to mention total rubbish in my opinion.

I post Scripture, you post your own opinion. Who is posting rubbish? 

[DaveW]

I post Scripture, you post your own opinion. Who is posting rubbish?

Very simple answer - you.

[John81]

There is a good discussion of this here: '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

That thread seems mostly about Dispensationalism and I'm unable to find anything specifically dealing with a Scriptural explanation of a gap between the 69th and 70th week.

 

If anyone would care to put forth a post here, or elsewhere dealing specifically with just the Scriptural reasoning for a gap between the 69th and 70th week that would be appreciated.

[HappyChristian]

John, Steve gave a link where that has been discussed. I'm sure you'll need to swim through it, as must be done in most threads on prophecy seem to go here.  But the discussion is there.

[DaveW]

Dan 9
 24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
 25  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
 26  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
 27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBlation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

First thing:
This prophecy is to do with "thy people and thy holy city."
The whole 70 weeks. Israel is the people, Jerusalem is the city. This prophecy has nothing to do with the churches. Vs 24 states that plainly.

The timing starts from the command to build the city.
This gives us the start point of this countdown.
Smarter men than I have calculated the end of the 69th weeks of years to precisely coincide with the death of Christ.
Coincidentally vs 26 says after the 69th week Messiah is cut off. This is OBviously by the context referring to the death of Christ - no other event fits the description, and the timing from the decree works too.
Vs 26 continues on to note that the city and the sanctuary are destroyed, there is a flood, and a war of desolation.
All this happens after the 69th week begins.
We know this because the next and only other week mentioned - this must be the 70th week - is in vs 27.
Here a covenant is confirmed for a week. This is the final week of the 70.
In the midst of that week the sacrifice and OBlation are caused to cease.

This is the plain order of events according to Dan 9.
You will note that the events of vs 26 happen after the end of week 69 but before the beginning of week 70.

The final week can not possibly be an I start continuation from week 69, for there must be time for the vs 26 events to occur.

You will note that although the gap is written into to passage, there is no indication of the duration of the gap in Dan 9.
The existence of the gap is evident, the timing of the gap is evident (after week 69 ends), but the duration of the gap is not.

Note : the ceasing of the sacrifice and OBlation CAN NOT be referring to the death of Christ as dome false teachers promote, as the sacrifice etc continued while t he Temple was in existence. It does not refer to the effectiveness of the sacrifice, but the practice.
This means that for those to make the death of Christ the middle of the 70th week for that reason MUST have a gap as well, for we know the sacrifice continued TO BE PERFORMED after Christ's death.
Note further that Daniel makes no reference to "this generation".

The simple and plain reading of Daniel 9 denotes a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week.

So, if you read the passage without someone putting lies in your ear, you must come to the conclusion that vs 26 happens after week 69 and before week 70.
That is what it says.

Now wait for the lies and misrepresentation to spew forth.......

[HappyChristian]

I've had all the animosity I'm going to take in this thread.

 

Dave, feel free to copy and paste your last post into a thread about Dan 9, if desired.  Just leave out the last line.

 

John, as I said, there is a link provided to a previous discussion on the 69th and 70th week, and Dave gave some good information in his post. You might also want to consider Roadmap through Revelation.  http://www.barnesandnOBle.com/s/Roadmap-Through-Revelation-Rick-Schworer?dref=1 Rick, the author, is a member here (he hasn't been online here for a good while due to busyness) and has posted a bit in the link previously mentioned. The book could help explain a good bit, whether or not you might agree with it.