Keeping Track......

[DaveW]

Some here delight in constantly restating how many times they gave read their Bible through or how many people they have led to salvation.

I personally don't keep track of numbers like that. I don't really see the point.

To me it comes across a little prideful.
Sort of "I've read my Bible through 9783 times" (therefore I must be more spiritual than you).

A bit like preachers who always want to talk about numbers in church.
I don't count that either.
Partly because in the close region of our church we have many cult buildings and their car parks are always full.
I came to the conclusion that numbers do not equal God's blessing or being in God's will.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

This is real Christian success, not being able to tick the boxes and fill in numbers.

According to God's Word, a faithful servant who has worked diligently is what God is looking for - the results of that work are not mentioned here.

[John81]

I've never felt a need, or thought of any good reason, to bother trying to count how many people I've helped come to Christ or how many times I've read the Bible (but I'm certain it's not been 9783 times yet!).

 

For many there does indeed seem to be a pride issue involved in constantly telling anyone around they spend 3 hours in prayer every day, read through the Bible each month, win 300 to the Lord every month.

 

Oftentimes these sort also seem to think they have some special revelation or understanding of Scripture that only a select few are capable of grasping because everyone else just isn't intelligent enough, spiritual enough, or just won't listen to them.

 

Then, not only do we have to hear these things over and over again, but so many unsaved and immature Christians hear this and are led astray or dismayed because they think they just don't measure up.

[Jim_Alaska]

I totally agree Dave, these things have always seemed to me to be very pridefully motivated.

 

And of course if the person reading these things has not led X amount of people to the Lord, it sort of automatically has the tendency to make that person feel a bit inferior.

 

It may surprise some, but I have always felt much the same way about the phrase "leading someone to the Lord. To me that also has the same tenor.

 

Personally, I myself have never "led anyone to the Lord". I say this in the sense of using the all too common method of what is called the Romans Road", or the repeating of the sinners prayer, followed by the proclamation that, "now you are saved."

 

I have preached the Gospel and seen miraculous results, none of which can be attributed to me personally. I have reasoned from Scripture with the lost, answered questions and generally been a witness to the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ through those exercises. In those cases I have never considered myself as anythng other than the conduit that God used to bring a lost sinner to Himself.

 

I guess I am just paranoid, but I have seen too much of this "leading people to the Lord" stuff that never produces lasting results, or even beginning results beyond the initial supposed profession of faith.

[2Tim215]

Some here delight in constantly restating how many times they gave read their Bible through or how many people they have led to salvation.

I personally don't keep track of numbers like that. I don't really see the point.

To me it comes across a little prideful.
Sort of "I've read my Bible through 9783 times" (therefore I must be more spiritual than you).

A bit like preachers who always want to talk about numbers in church.
I don't count that either.
Partly because in the close region of our church we have many cult buildings and their car parks are always full.
I came to the conclusion that numbers do not equal God's blessing or being in God's will.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

This is real Christian success, not being able to tick the boxes and fill in numbers.

According to God's Word, a faithful servant who has worked diligently is what God is looking for - the results of that work are not mentioned here.

About the best thing I have ever seen written on this site! One of the reasons I left the only IFB church we had was there personal pride in Saturday street preaching and how many souls "they" had led to salvation. When I questioned this I was castigated. When I questioned why the church or God could not take care of my family while I studied full time to be a pastor I was told to go look for my food in peoples dustbins  - that it would humble me. Pride and IFB go hand in hand. Man can not save man, God does. God does not pay salaries, man does.

[HappyChristian]

2Tim - please remember that this is an IFB board.  Pride and IFB do not necessarily go hand in hand. You had a horrid experience, and yes, there are too many prideful churches around. But IFB do not have the corner on pride.  Please cease to lump all IFB in a pile.  Thank you.

 

That said, I totally agree that Christianity has become too much of a showmanship.

[2Tim215]

2Tim - please remember that this is an IFB board.  Pride and IFB do not necessarily go hand in hand. You had a horrid experience, and yes, there are too many prideful churches around. But IFB do not have the corner on pride.  Please cease to lump all IFB in a pile.  Thank you.

 

That said, I totally agree that Christianity has become too much of a showmanship.

Sadly, I have only met a handful where it's not the case. So you are right, I won't lump all of us in that pile, just most of us:)

[HappyChristian]

Sadly, I have only met a handful where it's not the case. So you are right, I won't lump all of us in that pile, just most of us:)

I do know how you feel, because I've experienced it, too (not in the same way you have, but in bad ways). But it isn't because they are IFB. It is because they are walking in their own ways instead of surrendering to the Lord. Just as so many other believers have done.  Lump away even for most of them, but not on here. 

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Does that mean my statements that:

1) Most men are jerks

2) Most women are drama queens

3) Most U.S. Christians are self-centered

4) Most N, Central, South American and European Christians are spoiled

5) Most Christian schools are public schools with tuition

 

are all doubtful and debated statements???

[wretched]

About the best thing I have ever seen written on this site! One of the reasons I left the only IFB church we had was there personal pride in Saturday street preaching and how many souls "they" had led to salvation. When I questioned this I was castigated. When I questioned why the church or God could not take care of my family while I studied full time to be a pastor I was told to go look for my food in peoples dustbins  - that it would humble me. Pride and IFB go hand in hand. Man can not save man, God does. God does not pay salaries, man does.

 

I have been a member of IFB churches in 3 countries and 17 states and have never seen anything like this. You are uniquely unlucky there brew

[2Tim215]

I know a wonderful IFB pastor that has a 9 yr old daughter. An American IFB pastor came to our country to start a church, found one allready and was not happy so decided to destroy it. One of the things he did was tell his son (they were in the same school - small town) to tell this pastors daughter that he (the father) was going to burn in hell. This pastor endured many years of this kind of onslaught. I was saved when I was 9 yrs old. One IFB pastor told me and my wife we were not "truly" saved as we gave our lives to the Lord outside of an IFB church. I don't think that I have been uniquely unlucky as my years in the IFB doctrine have proven otherwise. There are many truly wonderfull believers in the IFB; and many snakes.

[John81]

Like all things involving humans, IFB has it's prOBlems too. There are great, good, bad and downright awful IFB churches, pastors and members out there. One has to use God given wisdom and discernment when looking for a church to attend, a pastor to sit under, believers to fellowship with and those to be friends with.

 

We all have our struggles, we all have sins we deal with, we are all at different levels of maturity, so each church, each pastor, each individual will be unique to an extent and must be evaluated with a clear eye, and hopefully with a loving heart.

 

Most IFBs I've encountered or known over the years I would say are in the "good" category". I've known a handful that might be called "great". Some are "bad" and while I've heard of the "awful" ones, I wouldn't say any I've personally known or encountered were "awful".

 

One prOBlem I've seen most within IFB is too much concentration on outward appearances and too little on the changing of the heart. From this one prOBlem stem many others. Thankfully, not all IFB are like that.

 

A prOBlem that seems to be growing is that of IFB churches seeming to be on the same path the SBC moved to decades ago; that of becoming a little more liberal, accepting a little more compromise, moving a little at a time away from the traditional IFB positions. Along with this growing trend is that most IFB churches that take that road now decide to keep their IFB name, thus making the IFB name lose it's meaning.