Agreement/disagreement With The Pastor

[Ukulelemike]

You do, indeed, face a difficult decision:

 

  Go to a church with some aberrant teachings

 

or

 

  Go nowhere.

 

Both have challenges to them.  Personally, I would choose the church with the fewest aberrant doctrines, because no matter where you go, chances are there will be something you disagree with-a perfect church wouldn't want you, or me, as part anywaqys because we would surely bring them down a notch or two.

 

But, the reason I would go the way I would, is because to get out altogether is dangerous-a church with a few dfficulties will challenge one to study things out, to better learn the doctrines in question. And you'll certainly have to stay in prayer, and teach your children the truth of the matter, but to get out al the way can set a precedence in your live that can be very dfficult to overcome.  I got out of church for a while due to issues I had with the pastor, and I found it difficult to get back in again, and then, to remain faithful. It took my new pastor to lovingly, but firmly, call me on lying about why I was missing service to wake me up, humble me and get right. But it was hard. Believers are made to seek fellowship and to be a part of a church-to not be a part is unnatural for the believer, so better to go somewhere where there might be some wrong teachings, (if not too bad), and keep yourself pure, while reaping the benefits of the assembly, than to leave it all, even for a while, and risk falling into a spiritual stupor.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What if the only options are Churches that don't teach or preach from the KJV?  That is how it is in our town.  MV's, CCM, Catholic, Mormon or Jehovah's Witness.  Not any that I care to attend.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

[Ukulelemike]

What if the only options are Churches that don't teach or preach from the KJV?  That is how it is in our town.  MV's, CCM, Catholic, Mormon or Jehovah's Witness.  Not any that I care to attend.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

If the differences are such that the two can't walk together, then it's time to either move to where there is a good one, or start a new work. (And to be honest, I'm not sure that I would say that the tithing issue is a separation issue). If it was I could never be an IFB because prOBably 95% teach tithing. I think they are wrong, but if I give I give as a free-will offering, not a tithe-the guys doing the books can call it whatever they like.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

For me, the tithing is an issue. I am not welcome back at that Church unless I admit to them that I am wrong about tithes... which, of course, will never happen. How can I lie against the truth?

Moving is not an option for me, not enough finances to even consider it.

[Ukulelemike]

Home church?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

PrOBably the route I will have to take.  To date, we have just been listening to sermons by IFB pastors online.  But sure do miss the fellowship.

[DaveW]

If the differences are such that the two can't walk together, then it's time to either move to where there is a good one, or start a new work. (And to be honest, I'm not sure that I would say that the tithing issue is a separation issue). If it was I could never be an IFB because prOBably 95% teach tithing. I think they are wrong, but if I give I give as a free-will offering, not a tithe-the guys doing the books can call it whatever they like.

 

I would ask you to present some proof that "95% teach tithing".

 

This is not my experience at all.

 

I have NEVER personally heard the tithe taught as a necessity in any IFB church I have ever been to.

 

I certainly am not saying it does not happen, but when people use terms like "95%" or even "most", I find it hard to believe.

 

I have heard people use it as "an example to follow, but only as the Lord leads", never as a necessity - the heart of giving is always emphasised.

 

So - prove it, or stop it.

 

Proof of "most" or "95%" or else stop saying it.

 

How about saying "Whenever people preach tithing as a necessity it is wrong"?

 

That I have no prOBlem with.

At all.

 

In any way......

 

But stop making accusations that are simply not true.

 

It is not 95%, nor in my experience is it "most".

 

MY personal experience is that it is actually NO IFB church preaches it, but I have heard reports of some who do, so I would never say that no IFB church preaches - that would by just as wrong as saying "95%" or "Most".

 

"Some do" would be an acceptable statement - but not "95%".

[John81]

I don't know about IFB in Australia, but here in America most preach the tithe, and a good many of them preach on the subject often, and a good many of those use the appeal to greed and fear in order to "convince" their congregation to tithe.

 

I've heard very few IFB pastors in America preach NT giving.

[Miss Daisy]

I know my pastor preaches to tithe, then we have a whole month of "missionary month" in OctOBer, which is just a whole month of trying to get blood out of turnips in my church. We have an average Sunday adult attendance in church of average of 12 regulars, 20 on a good Sunday. Not all tithe or "give willingly". I hear how God will get it out of you someway, your car will break down and be the price of what you would normally give. Then every year, want you to increase your giving to the church, to the missionaries, to the school, or whatever pet project is going on at the moment.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Since there is only one IFB Church in my town, and it teaches that God requires Church members to tithe their money, then I would say 100% of the IFB Churches in my town teach that false doctrine.

Likewise, when I lived in Randleman, NC, there was only one IFB Church in the whole town.  It also taught that God requires Church members to tithe their money.  So, again.  100% of the IFB Churches in Randleman teach that false doctrine.

Matter of fact, in every IFB Church I have ever visited teach that God requires Church members to tithe their money.  So, again.  100% of the IFB Churches I have visited teach that false doctrine.

[DaveW]

I don't know about IFB in Australia, but here in America most preach the tithe, and a good many of them preach on the subject often, and a good many of those use the appeal to greed and fear in order to "convince" their congregation to tithe.

 

I've heard very few IFB pastors in America preach NT giving.

 

My experience of Americans who visit here must be a great aberration then, for I know of no american missionary over here who does, nor has any american preacher who I have personally met preached or spoken with me about tithing as a necessity.

 

Nor for that matter have I got any books from IFB in my library that I can remember seeing tithing as a "tax" to be extracted by compulsion.

 

As I have said, I have seen the tithe taught as an example only - and I know that even this offends some, but it is always overlaid with "as the Lord leads", not out of necessity.

 

I personally don't use the word "tithe" unless I am preaching specifically about it, and the last time I did so - a few years ago now, and the conclusion I presented was that the tithe is nowhere pressed upon us in the NT.

 

Miss Daisy - that is just wrong - and I certainly never said it doesn't happen - I do know of others like you who tell such stories, and I do not doubt them - but I have never personally sat under that preaching.

 

Maybe I just associate with more biblical preachers.......

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I know my pastor preaches to tithe, then we have a whole month of "missionary month" in OctOBer, which is just a whole month of trying to get blood out of turnips in my church. We have an average Sunday adult attendance in church of average of 12 regulars, 20 on a good Sunday. Not all tithe or "give willingly". I hear how God will get it out of you someway, your car will break down and be the price of what you would normally give. Then every year, want you to increase your giving to the church, to the missionaries, to the school, or whatever pet project is going on at the moment.

Do you see the foolishness of the argument that "God will get it out of you anyway"?  I mean, think about it.  A pastor says we are not to spend our tithe money on worldly or secular stuff. then argues that God will cause us to give that money to worldly organizations just to get it out of us? 

Oh, the irony.  LOL

[DaveW]

Since there is only one IFB Church in my town, and it teaches that God requires Church members to tithe their money, then I would say 100% of the IFB Churches in my town teach that false doctrine.

Likewise, when I lived in Randleman, NC, there was only one IFB Church in the whole town.  It also taught that God requires Church members to tithe their money.  So, again.  100% of the IFB Churches in Randleman teach that false doctrine.

Matter of fact, in every IFB Church I have ever visited teach that God requires Church members to tithe their money.  So, again.  100% of the IFB Churches I have visited teach that false doctrine.

 

 

I don't dispute that, but just as my experience is different and you would be offended if I did claim that none preached it, I would ask that Mike refrain from making such claims - they are just not true.

 

I mistook you as making that claim previously - your claim was more general - but mike was very specific - and wrong.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The thing is, we get most of our information from not just personal experience, but also from Barna polls. 

For instance, in 2011, George Barna polled 2,000 people concerning tithes.  Of those 2,000 people, only 60 said they tithed.  Just 3%.

How far off would I be to say that only 3% of all people in America tithe?  I am not sure that I would be too far off, if off at all.

For the record, the numbers were higher in 2008, so maybe less than 3% now.  Would be interesting to find out.

[John81]

While I've certain not visited every IFB church in America, from those I have and from hearing from others, unless there is some major difference somewhere in the country, I would guess Mike isn't that far from accuracy as I would expect 90+% of IFB pastors do preach the tithe.

 

I don't recall hearing missionaries preach about tithing, but then why would they, they are generally looking for a big one time offering or a specific long-term commitment from the church. While I've not heard missionaries speak of giving a tithe, I've heard pastors bring it up after the missionaries have spoken and reminded the congregation they are OBligated to give their tithe to the church and any gift to the missionaries should be an extra gift.