Marriage, Remarriage, Divorce

[John81]

One thing of note regarding Charles Stanley is how much his ministry has changed since he decided to listen to the church board and not resign after his divorce.

 

His preaching since that time has become increasingly watery. He's also bought into at least some aspects of the "contemplative prayer" movement and has been promoting this. All the while he seems to have also bought into the press about him being an outstanding man of God for he seems to often refer to his own writings and sermons (all the while continually prompting folks to buy these) rather than directly to the Word of God.

 

As I ponder these things I wonder how much better off his legacy could have been had he stepped down from the pastorate after his divorce. One might wonder "what if..." he had stepped down and secluded himself away with the Lord for a  period of time. Might he have come to a closer walk with the Lord? Might he have never gave in to the pull of the world? Might he have come to such a close walk with the Lord that he would have written the most biblically sound and useful for the Lord book of all his writings?

 

We can only wonder about such things, but one thing is certain, when we fail to OBey the Lord and proceed without His call and blessing, we will certainly stumble and perhaps even fall as we go about things in our own way.

[JimsHelpmeet]

Charles Stanley truly has turned away from his roots since his divorce and remarriage. It's no wonder his son, Andy, went on to pastor one of the biggest contemporary mega churches in the country. Seriously, when I was in my early-twenties I attended his church. Once. It was like a rock and roll laser light show. It's a well known fact that Andy and his father had a serious blowout over the divorce issue, but not because Andy was opposed to his dad continuing to serve. Andy asked a man in a position of leadership at his church, who was cheating on his wife to engage in a sodomite relationship, because of his adultery. Not at any time did Andy say he opposed the abomination of homosexuality. Instead, he was asked to step down for being unfaithful to his wife. 

[swathdiver]

Andy asked a man in a position of leadership at his church, who was cheating on his wife to engage in a sodomite relationship, because of his adultery. Not at any time did Andy say he opposed the abomination of homosexuality. Instead, he was asked to step down for being unfaithful to his wife. 

 

I saw that and another sermon of his like it.  One has to wonder what Gospel, what kind of God and Jesus Christ is he putting his trust in?  It's certainly not the God and Christ of my King James Bible!

[John81]

How much better might our marriages be if we paid heed to Ephesians 5:21, "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God."

 

The "wars" and such in our marriages, as we read in the book of James, comes from our own lusts; our selfishness.

 

Are we serving self in marriage or do we serve God by OBeying Him in putting our spouse before ourselves?

[prophet1]

How much better might our marriages be if we paid heed to Ephesians 5:21, "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God." The "wars" and such in our marriages, as we read in the book of James, comes from our own lusts; our selfishness. Are we serving self in marriage or do we serve God by OBeying Him in putting our spouse before ourselves?

Eph. 5:21 is not talking about marriage. Beginning in chapter 4, it is talking about relationships in the church. He gets to marriage, in verse 22, and continues to the chapter end. Eph 5:21-22 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Verse 22 is very specific, and begins an explanation of how marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church. To apply verse 21 to marriage, borders on blasphemy. It is to say: 'Christ should submit himself to the church, as well as the church to Christ'. This gross misapplication turns the whole teaching of this passage on its ear. What is actually being said is: 1.That no one person is in charge of the church. 2. That no married woman should be in a position to submit herself to any man other than her husband. Ignoring this admonishment, is cause for rampant fornication in the churches. No Married Woman Should Be a Church Employee who answers to Another Authority than the God-Given Authority of Her OWN Husband. No married woman should be volunteering in a ministry that has another man ,than her OWN husband, as its leader. Teach a woman to allow her loyalty to be placed in anyone other than her husband, and you've taught her a form of adultery. What a mess we get, when we ignore or misteach Scripture!!! In case you "men" missed this: 1Co 14:35 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. In case you were gonna say: what about her submitting to "the preaching", or "the pastor"? God already covered all of this. We, with our hardened hearts won't receive it. We would rather tell anecdotes all day, than to hear the clear doctrine of The Word, regarding this. Anishinaabe

[DaveW]

Doesn't matter.
You wouldn't care anyway.

[John81]

Yet it's application applies in marriage as well. Just as we are all called to esteem others better than ourselves, we are to consider our spouses before ourselves. It's a matter of submitting our self-interest to the best interest of our spouse. If both spouses were in harmony on this, that would see each spouse doing what's best for the other and thus both spouses knowing blessed joy and satisfaction in their marriage.

 

Elsewhere we learn details of how and even why the husband is to be, and the wife is to be.

 

Prophet1, you did raise some good points in your posting and I appreciate the awareness of that. There is no doubt much trouble has been caused in marriages due to divided loyalties, some of which have been wrongly taught in churches.

 

Married or unmarried, Christ is to be First, above all. For the married, in terms of human relations, ones spouse is to come before and above all.

[2bLikeJesus]

I almost wish my pastor didn't preach so much on marriage and family.  We are losing him for another week this year as he tours the country preaching at marriage and family seminars.  We lose him on average 5 weeks a year for this reason.  He will be in Texas (2 days), Connecticut. Pennsylvania (3 days) and Maryland all this week.

 

We get tons of preaching on marriage and child rearing in my church, but what we don't get is very much for singles.  I divorced 19 years ago when my 2nd wife (first wife passed away) reconciled to her previous husband (yes it was wrong to marry her in the first place).  I have remained single and not dating or ever being alone with the opposite sex for the last 19 years out of conviction.  My second wife has just recently passed away as well, so I am free to remarry now but doubt that I will since I have become accustomed to a bachelor's life now and the likelihood, with no prospects in my very small church congregation, of ever meeting a woman that would pass my strict standards of separated christian living.  When your closest church of like faith is over 75 miles away because you live in a small logging community in Oregon, it kind of puts a damper on meeting someone.

 

Bro. Garry

[John81]

I agree, along with aspects of biblical marriage, there should also be sound preaching on biblical singleness.

 

Perhaps if other pastors would do their own preaching on marriage, there wouldn't be such a need for others to travel and do so. I've heard pastors say that the only way they can get away with certain things being preached in their church is by having someone else guest preach. That's a real shame.

 

A pastor is to tend to the whole flock, and they are do so biblically, even if some in the flock don't want to hear the biblical truth.

 

When a pastor stops preaching on adultery because one of the "prominent" members is engaged in such, or won't preach what the Bible says about divorce because there are divorced folks in the congregation, or leaves out biblical marriage roles because there are several feminist minded women in the flock, he not only fails to properly tend to the flock, he disOBeys God by not boldly proclaiming the Word.

 

One SBC pastor stopped preaching on anything to do with male/female relationships after one of the "main men" in his congregation started sleeping around with another woman (not his wife) and then moved in with his new "girlfriend" and started attending church services with his new "girlfriend" even before the divorce went through. The mans wife attempted to get the pastor to say something about all this (she had tried to get him to counsel them before things went that far) but the pastor refused. Instead, the pastor instructed certain women in the church to shun the mans wife and give the impression it was all her fault.

 

The last I heard that woman ended up in a less than sound church while her former husband maintained his position on the church board, was eventually married to the new "girlfriend" right there in the church by the pastor, and his big donations kept the pastor satisfied.

 

So much wrong and sin comes about when we turn from the Word of God, especially in areas of male/female relations. We so need solid, consistent biblical preaching in this area. There should also be solid, biblical teaching to help the singles, whether they are singles hoping to be married, single due to the death of a spouse, divorce from a spouse, conviction or what they believe to be God's direction for their lives.

 

May we encourage our pastors to boldly preach the Word, even if what they preach greatly convicts us or hits a sensitive spot. We need to hear what the Lord has to say and so does the rest of the congregation.

[prophet1]

Yet it's application applies in marriage as well. Just as we are all called to esteem others better than ourselves, we are to consider our spouses before ourselves. It's a matter of submitting our self-interest to the best interest of our spouse. If both spouses were in harmony on this, that would see each spouse doing what's best for the other and thus both spouses knowing blessed joy and satisfaction in their marriage.

Elsewhere we learn details of how and even why the husband is to be, and the wife is to be.

Prophet1, you did raise some good points in your posting and I appreciate the awareness of that. There is no doubt much trouble has been caused in marriages due to divided loyalties, some of which have been wrongly taught in churches.

Married or unmarried, Christ is to be First, above all. For the married, in terms of human relations, ones spouse is to come before and above all.

In this light, we are agreed.
'Let each esteem other better than themselves' applies in every relationship of a Christian.

Submission is particular to OBedience, and not just unselfishness.

Anishinaabe

[John81]

I noticed in another thread the old argument about Christians and divorce came up which often ends up going the way of 'just how many reasons can we come up with that we can say divorce is okay'.

 

Naturally, it's pointed out that Jesus mentioned that fornication was a grounds for divorce. This typically leads to the debate over just what does fornication mean and how broad can we apply this.

 

Most often forgotten, or ignored, is that Jesus made it clear that Moses only allowed for such because of the hardened hearts of the Hebrews. Jesus also makes it very clear that God's original intent, and what He still desires, is that marriage be permanent, no exceptions.

 

Thus, if we are truly claiming to be followers of Christ, we would never sue for divorce, and we would do all we could (biblically) to maintain our marriage.

 

So many of our churches, our Christian families and marriages are a wreck today because over the past several decades we've bought into the worldly and feminist view of divorce as not that big a deal, and even if it is bad, if good excuses can be made then it's okay.

 

Notice, this is in regards to married Christians (both husband and wife born again) and divorce.

 

We have so many broken homes, broken children and broken churches which have come out of this plague of divorce among Christians.

 

Followers of Christ are very much in need of biblical teaching on marriage. The young as well as older singles that will likely get married need this teaching, along with teaching regarding male/female relations outside of marriage, matters like dating and such.

 

Those planning to marry need some good biblical teaching and counseling on the matter before the pastor agrees to marry them.

 

Married couples need continual reinforcement teaching on biblical marriages.

 

If a marriage does come under attack and is in trouble we, pastors and congregation, should rally to help the couple save, restore and build up their marriage.

 

What might happen if we faced this issue with as much passion and intensity as some do the issue of homosexuality or abortion?

[ASongOfDegrees]

 

 

We get tons of preaching on marriage and child rearing in my church, but what we don't get is very much for singles.  

Bro. Garry

Brother, I once attended a church in downtown Syracuse, NY for a time that was made up of all single males from the ages of 20 to 45 with the pastor being in his early 50's. I'm not kidding ya, either. It was one of the best churches I was ever part of. All we did was go soul winning, street preaching, pass out tracts in the hood, bible study and the pastor taught karate too. The thing is whenever one of the guys got married the wife would want him to leave the church and find a church that had more ministries (i.e. more fun worldly things to do) other than what this church offered. 

[Ukulelemike]

Brother, I once attended a church in downtown Syracuse, NY for a time that was made up of all single males from the ages of 20 to 45 with the pastor being in his early 50's. I'm not kidding ya, either. It was one of the best churches I was ever part of. All we did was go soul winning, street preaching, pass out tracts in the hood, bible study and the pastor taught karate too. The thing is whenever one of the guys got married the wife would want him to leave the church and find a church that had more ministries (i.e. more fun worldly things to do) other than what this church offered. 

Isn't this the way it is too often? I used to have families with children, but they all left to go to churches that had "more for the kids". I told them, Why not stay and help MAKE something for the kids? Nope, rather leave and find something already set. So they left-one now church-hops, and the other goes to a Pentecostal church, but only because he is friends with the pastor and feels bad because they are so small. (Oddly, he's MY friend as well, and we're small, but he no longer comes to our church, so what does that say?)

people would rather sacrifice good doctrine for weak, because of the other 'benefits'. My friend at the pentecostal church even agrees that its wrong that the pastor's wife gets up and teaches and speaks in 'tongues' spontaneously, agrees that its unscriptural, but still goes. Not sure what he's getting out of it.

[John81]

Mike,

 

That's almost exactly what happened to an IFB plant right here. People kept saying they were interested, those who visited and attended for a bit all said they loved the preaching. However, every family wanted an already established children/youth program. There was no convincing them that if they would attend the church then there would be children/youth to start a program with. Each family said that if a good children/youth program got put together they would come back. Each one of those families took their children to the watered down, sometimes outright wrong on salvation, church with the big and "fun" children/youth program.

 

Eventually the sending church pulled the plug and the IFB church plant was ended. Now a group of wild charismatics use that church building.

 

This points out further the need for solid biblical teaching and preaching on family matters. Of what eternal value is having children in a big and "fun" church group when they are not learning how to live for Christ, and in some cases aren't even hearing the Gospel? Christian parents need to be convinced of the importance of raising their children for Christ, not for the world. Then they need the biblical teaching of how to do this.

 

Sad to say, but even in churches with sound preaching on such matters it seems there are always a few parents who either don't get it or don't care. They seem to think "fun" and activity for children/youth is of more value than their children learning the Bible, hearing the Gospel and being taught how to live for Christ.

[Ukulelemike]

Mike,

 

That's almost exactly what happened to an IFB plant right here. People kept saying they were interested, those who visited and attended for a bit all said they loved the preaching. However, every family wanted an already established children/youth program. There was no convincing them that if they would attend the church then there would be children/youth to start a program with. Each family said that if a good children/youth program got put together they would come back. Each one of those families took their children to the watered down, sometimes outright wrong on salvation, church with the big and "fun" children/youth program.

 

Eventually the sending church pulled the plug and the IFB church plant was ended. Now a group of wild charismatics use that church building.

 

This points out further the need for solid biblical teaching and preaching on family matters. Of what eternal value is having children in a big and "fun" church group when they are not learning how to live for Christ, and in some cases aren't even hearing the Gospel? Christian parents need to be convinced of the importance of raising their children for Christ, not for the world. Then they need the biblical teaching of how to do this.

 

Sad to say, but even in churches with sound preaching on such matters it seems there are always a few parents who either don't get it or don't care. They seem to think "fun" and activity for children/youth is of more value than their children learning the Bible, hearing the Gospel and being taught how to live for Christ.

Well, even when we lost our building, we have kept on. If there's a couple people in the church, we'll keep on. A shame that many churches get down to 10 people and decide its not enough, and shut down. Or they lose a building and that's comparable to losing the church. I'll meet in the field if I need, but the Lord never promised us a building and a salary and a big crowd-just asks us to be faithful. And if I can only be trusted with 14 people, then so be it.