Man Can Live With Out A Woman...

[JerryNumbers]

I agree a novice shouldn't be in the pulpit.  Anyone who's had any experience with life knows that novice's are often high-minded and full of themselves, just as the Bible says.

 

To create a doctrine, though, that a pastor HAS to be married (rather than just accepting what scripture says that he have only one wife...but not as an order to marry, just as a warning that they aren't to pastor if they have more than one wife) is man-made.  Just as stating that a man must have children to be a pastor (because that's in the reading, too).  As well as deacons...because the Bible says deacons are to be the husbands of one wife.  If we create a doctrine, we gotta accept it all, not just what we want to, else it breaks down in the long run. Of course, false doctrine has a tendency to do that, anyway.

 

So - no unmarried man can pastor.  No childless man can pastor.  No unmarried man can be a deacon. No childless man can be a deacon.  No widower can pastor.  No widower can be a deacon.  Sigh.  SMH at the silliness of mankind sometimes.  

 

 

I just recall something from years ago & thought I would mention it.

 

I once said to a young woman in our church, I suppose she was about 15-17 at the time, your would make a good pastors wife, I hope you marry a man that will surrender to be a pastor. I stated this because she seem to have a good understanding of the Bible for her age, & showed a great interest in church, Sunday school.

 

Her mother over heard me say this to her & said, "Don't jinx my daughter, I grew us as a pastors daughter, & I would not wish that on no woman. I hated being the pastors daughter & it was extremely difficult on my mother." Her parents lived in Oklahoma, but visited our church several times through the years & I recall him giving at least 2 or 3 sermons & doing one revival for us. They both seemed well adjusted to life & very happy, I had several great enjoyable conversations with him & it really made me wonder about the comment she made to me.

[HappyChristian]

 

I just recall something from years ago & thought I would mention it.

 

I once said to a young woman in our church, I suppose she was about 15-17 at the time, your would make a good pastors wife, I hope you marry a man that will surrender to be a pastor. I stated this because she seem to have a good understanding of the Bible for her age, & showed a great interest in church, Sunday school.

 

Her mother over heard me say this to her & said, "Don't jinx my daughter, I grew us as a pastors daughter, & I would not wish that on no woman. I hated being the pastors daughter & it was extremely difficult on my mother." Her parents lived in Oklahoma, but visited our church several times through the years & I recall him giving at least 2 or 3 sermons & doing one revival for us. They both seemed well adjusted to life & very happy, I had several great enjoyable conversations with him & it really made me wonder about the comment she made to me.

 

I've heard that from other people as well. A girl my son was interested in at one time wasn't sure she wanted to be involved with him when he was praying about possibly going to the mission field.  Because she didn't want her kids to grow up like she did...

[Miss Daisy]

I've never met a single pastor. Even right out of college they're married. I can see where it would could be troublesome within church. Finding a real Christian man who's single is near impossible these days.(yes, I know God will send someone if he wants to).

[HappyChristian]

I've never met a single pastor. Even right out of college they're married. I can see where it would could be troublesome within church. Finding a real Christian man who's single is near impossible these days.(yes, I know God will send someone if he wants to).

I've met a few.  And they usually do get married at some point.  As my hubby said, it's wise to be married, but it isn't a command - that's adding to the intent of scripture.

[Salyan]

I've heard that from other people as well. A girl my son was interested in at one time wasn't sure she wanted to be involved with him when he was praying about possibly going to the mission field. Because she didn't want her kids to grow up like she did...

Makes you wonder what exactly is the issue... what's being done 'wrong' either by the families or those around them.

[swathdiver]

Happy Christian, If I understand your position rightly, do you mean that 1 Timothy 3:2 means that a man can become a pastor and get married and have kids later?  

[JerryNumbers]

I've heard that from other people as well. A girl my son was interested in at one time wasn't sure she wanted to be involved with him when he was praying about possibly going to the mission field.  Because she didn't want her kids to grow up like she did...

 

I have no idea what it would be like to grow up as a pastors son, yet so many that has a father that's a pastors seems to resent their growing up days. And that is so sad.

 

And it seems for the most part the pastors children do not stay in church after leaving home. At least its been that way with most that I have known, yet I know there's many of them out there in the world I know nothing about. I hope it does not averaged out as it seem to.

[Miss Daisy]

what adult doesn't complain about SOMETHING that was wrong with their childhood? no matter what the occupation of the parents.

[irishman]

One problem I see with children is that parents don't want to tell them who to run with, and who to stay away from--even in the church unfortunately.  I chose my girls' friends, and even some youth meetings in other places where they were announcing separate sessions (dating, sex, etc being the focus).  At least they separated the boys and girls, probably ought to take a lesson from them when speaking from the pulpit! (Even with "mature" adults!).  Our children often suffer persecution from worldly friends and sometimes it's because of OUR silly, and so-called "convictions."

 

Often too, the kids feel like they were deprived of many things their friends enjoyed. (Christmas; Halloween, etc.) and many worldly activities.  Parents ought to be sure that they fully explain their reasons for separation, and promote other good, wholesome activities for them, if necessary, as well as fill their heads and hearts with the Word of God every day.

 

My kids were brought up with "Patch the Pirate" songs and skits.  Say what you will about Patch, he did teach morality, and all good things in his skits and songs.  All three of my children had never so much as stepped foot in public schools (With the exception of my son, he wanted to get into criminal forensics, and attended Perdu for a time, but after high school, of course)  They all graduated from Hyles-Anderson College, and are soul winners.  Even their friends at college asked them (several of them) if they were PK's because of their standards and love for the Lord.  It works if we work diligently at raising them.

 

Of course, it isn't us, but what the Lord does in their hearts through us. 

 

Deu 11:19  And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 11:20  And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
Deu 11:21  That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

Good, sound advice.

 

(I know it was under "law" as some will say, but it behooves us to obey it--it is still the Word of God.)

[The Glory Land]

I don't think when God call for a man to lead or to pastor, that God is calling the wife and children to surrender to the same calling? Wife's like changing their minds and children always want to be free. 

[JerryNumbers]

what adult doesn't complain about SOMETHING that was wrong with their childhood? no matter what the occupation of the parents.

 

 

Yes, nowadays it seems most everyone has an excuse to offer up & its usually their parents! And they make sure to state its not my fault I did all of those bad things.

 

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

Ro 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

Ec 11:9 Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.

Ec 11:10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity.

 

In the end I don't believe excuses will count, but each person will answer for their own self.

 

Maybe some of them believes they will have a dream team as OJ did.

[HappyChristian]

Happy Christian, If I understand your position rightly, do you mean that 1 Timothy 3:2 means that a man can become a pastor and get married and have kids later?  

My position is simply what I've been saying all along (and it encompasses more scripture than just 1 Tim. 3:2):

 

The man-made doctrine that a man HAS to be married in order to pastor is erroneous.  If a person holds to that belief, then, in order to not be inconsistent, that person HAS to teach that a man must also have children in order to pastor.  And even further, that person HAS to teach that a man who is or would be a deacon MUST be married and MUST have children.

 

So, yes, if a single man is pastoring, he can marry later.  Just as a couple (where the man is a pastor) can have children later.  And so too with deacons.

 

See, the problem is that we so often pull out one or two phrases and create a doctrine that simply isn't consistent with the rest of scripture.  And that is what the teaching that a pastor MUST be married is.  

[irishman]

My position is simply what I've been saying all along (and it encompasses more scripture than just 1 Tim. 3:2):

 

The man-made doctrine that a man HAS to be married in order to pastor is erroneous.  If a person holds to that belief, then, in order to not be inconsistent, that person HAS to teach that a man must also have children in order to pastor.  And even further, that person HAS to teach that a man who is or would be a deacon MUST be married and MUST have children.

 

So, yes, if a single man is pastoring, he can marry later.  Just as a couple (where the man is a pastor) can have children later.  And so too with deacons.

 

See, the problem is that we so often pull out one or two phrases and create a doctrine that simply isn't consistent with the rest of scripture.  And that is what the teaching that a pastor MUST be married is.  

 Not only that, but we often put too much weight on what the Bible "Doesn't say".  We (most of us) have enough problem keeping what it DOES say.

[swathdiver]

Thanks for your explanation.  However, I don't see what you see in the Scriptures.  Maybe something I missed or has not sunk in...

[Anon]

Makes you wonder what exactly is the issue... what's being done 'wrong' either by the families or those around them.

I don't think there necessarily has to be an issue. It's not easy to be a full time ministry family. Although I would never have understood it without being in the situation myself. I think most pastor's wives would probably tell you, if they were honest, that it's a good thing they didn't know what they were getting into ahead of time, when they married a pastor. haha.

Anyway, we have need of good strong Christians who have regular jobs to support pastors. If everyone grows up to be a pastor, there won't be anyone to lead. haha. We tell our kids that we just want them to do what God wants them to do, no matter what profession or calling it may be.