Suicide and salvation?

[John81]

That they rejected Christ and depended on another method of problem solving is sad indeed. The Comforter was not their comforter, the Comforter was not their consoler, even though Jesus said that that is what the Comforter would do. I guess that means Jesus lied to them. Wow.

When a believer sins he may be temporarily rejecting the will of God at that moment, but not be rejecting Christ Himself. Not to mention the fact that once one is born again in Christ, he can't be unborn because of any sin, and every sin is a rejection of following Christ in that particular point in that particular time.

No Christian is perfect and countless Christians have died after committing a sin, some have died commiting sin, many more have died without specifically confessing and repenting of every sin in their life, and yet were and still are assured of heaven.

Elsewhere Paul points out that some Christians were once murders, adulterers, etc., and cautions them not to walk in that way, which clearly indicates that a Christian can yet commit those sins, which means a Christian can commit murder/suicide.

Scripture tells us how we are to walk, reminds us we will yet fall, but also reminds us that once saved, always saved.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Scripture tells us all murders will have their part in the lake of fire. I will believe the Word of God on this one, John.

[heartstrings]

Even sadder, that some do not listen. Suicide is murder. No murderer has eternal life in him. All murderers will have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.

NOWHERE does the Bible ever define suicide as murder. But It DOES define killing another person or HATING another person as murder.
Both King Saul and Samson killed themselves and the Bible never even hints at those acts as being murder. That is your own doctrine, not the Bible's.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Suicide is the murder of self, heartstrings. Whether you want to accept it as so or not.

Samson did not kill himself. The Bible does not say he killed himself.

Saul? Saul was rejected by God. In the end, he himself rejected God.

[John81]

Scripture tells us all murders will have their part in the lake of fire. I will believe the Word of God on this one, John.

That is speaking to those not born again in Christ. Those who live as murders, like all other unsaved sinners, will be in the lake of fire. This isn't speaking to any sin a Christian commits after salvation but to those unsaved.

[John81]

Suicide is the murder of self, heartstrings. Whether you want to accept it as so or not.

Samson did not kill himself. The Bible does not say he killed himself.

Saul? Saul was rejected by God. In the end, he himself rejected God.

I agree that suicide is the murder of oneself, that's fairly obvious. Samson caused the building to collapse upon himself, thus killing himself with his enemies. Whether or not one wishes to call that suicide, Samson did indeed kill himself.

[Brother Rick]

Scripture tells us all murders will have their part in the lake of fire. I will believe the Word of God on this one, John.

Me too.

The same verse in Revelation says that the fearful go to Hell too, SFIC. What do you think about that, brother? Do you believe if a Christian is afraid when he dies that means he was never saved to begin with?

I love how in your twisted theology a Christian can do any sin he wants, but if he dies when he's not right that means he was never saved to begin with. If you backslide for ten years but get right you were saved, but if you die during the ten years you never were. In your little world God's grace is only good if you die right with God, because if you don't that just means you were never saved to begin with.

Just admit it, you believe in preserverance of the saints. You might as well start quoting Matthew 24:13 as part of the plan of salvation like the Catholics do.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

That is speaking to those not born again in Christ. Those who live as murders, like all other unsaved sinners, will be in the lake of fire. This isn't speaking to any sin a Christian commits after salvation but to those unsaved.

The one who commits suicide proves he or she was not born again. In committing suicide, he or she proves that when others thought he or she was saved in reality he or she was not, but only had an outward appearance with no inward change. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I agree that suicide is the murder of oneself, that's fairly obvious. Samson caused the building to collapse upon himself, thus killing himself with his enemies. Whether or not one wishes to call that suicide, Samson did indeed kill himself.

I do not believe Samson killed himself. I believe God honored his request and took his life.

[Brother Rick]

I do not believe Samson killed himself. I believe God honored his request and took his life.

How convenient!

Here we go: every time a Christian commits suicide they aren't actually committing suicide, God is just answering the prayer of their heart and snuffing them out! Like Samson! Christians are unable to commit suicide, so God just kills Christians who want to committ suicide. That way, they're not commiting the only sin a Christian can't commit, you know, the one that God hardly ever talks about (REALLY - why would He talk about 'the worst sin ever'?) because He's too busy harping on and killing people for idolatry and complaining all the time in the Bible.

Did I get that right? Edited December 21, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Me too.

The same verse in Revelation says that the fearful go to Hell too, SFIC. What do you think about that, brother? Do you believe if a Christian is afraid when he dies that means he was never saved to begin with?

I love how in your twisted theology a Christian can do any sin he wants, but if he dies when he's not right that means he was never saved to begin with. If you backslide for ten years but get right you were saved, but if you die during the ten years you never were. In your little world God's grace is only good if you die right with God, because if you don't that just means you were never saved to begin with.

Just admit it, you believe in preserverance of the saints. You might as well start quoting Matthew 24:13 as part of the plan of salvation like the Catholics do.

The Lord is my light and my Salvation; whom shall I fear? I am persuaded that nothing can separate me from the Love of God that is in Christ Jesus, so why fear? He promised to give us a peace that passes all understanding, why not believe His promise and believe that He is faithful who promised?

I highly doubt that God will allow a saved person to remain in a backslidden state for ten years. And, yes, if a person who appeared to be saved falls out of the fellowship of the Church and dies ten years later having never got things right with God, it only proves that that person was not saved.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. Edited December 21, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Brother Rick]

The Lord is my light and my Salvation; whom shall I fear? I am persuaded that nothing can separate me from the Love of God that is in Christ Jesus, so why fear? He promised to give us a peace that passes all understanding, why not believe His promise and believe that He is faithful who promised?

I highly doubt that God will allow a saved person to remain in a backslidden state for ten years. And, yes, if a person who appeared to be saved falls out of the fellowship of the Church and dies ten years later having never got things right with God, it only proves that that person was not saved.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Oh c'mon, let's see a commitment to what you are pushing now! Can a Christian backslide for ten years and get right or not? What is the time limit that a Christian can backslide? One year, two years, five years..... at what point do we KNOW they were lost the whole time?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Oh c'mon, let's see a commitment to what you are pushing now! Can a Christian backslide for ten years and get right or not? What is the time limit that a Christian can backslide? One year, two years, five years..... at what point do we KNOW they were lost the whole time?

Why even consider how long one can live in a backslidden state? Why even try to walk as close to the line separating the world from the Christian as one can get? Who defines that line? Rick? Jerry? John? Another man? No! God has set guidelines in His Holy Word and the child of God should walk in the manner proscribed in God's Word.

Scripture tells us that those who are God's hear His voice and follow Him. Do you actually think I am going to believe a person can backslide on God without chastisement?

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The fact is, it doesn't matter if that person has been in Church all his or her life. If they fall out of fellowship and back into the world, participating in worldly sins and never get right, they prove that they were not Christian at al. If they die in their sin, they prove they were not of God in the first place.

[JerryNumbers]

If ‘ALL MURDERS’ are sent to hell them that means the sin of murder cannot be forgiven.

Have you ever heard about ‘GRACE?’ Without ‘GRACE’ not a single person would inherit Heaven.

Yet some seem to drop ‘GRACE’ from the equation when it pleases them.

[heartstrings]

Dont' you have to hate someone else, to be a murderer?
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15
It's possible to hate your own Soul.....Whoso is partner with a thief hateth his own soul: he heareth cursing, and bewrayeth [it] not. Proverbs 29:24.... But NOBODY has ever hated their own flesh...For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: Ephesians 5:29

Interesting.
So everyone is capable of hating his brother when he murders him, but NOBODY has ever hated his own flesh when he takes his own life. At any rate, I will reiterate for SFIC, Using the strength God supplied, Samson using his own FREE WILL deliberately pushed the pillars to take his own life and he is mentioned in Hebrews 11, as having faith.