Suicide and salvation?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

5. Life.

Acts 5:3-5, “But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5) And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.”

As God killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying in Acts 5, sometimes God just kills Christians who won’t get right. We’ll go into this a little more in the next chapter, but just remember you are not your own. You are bought with a price and we are left here to glorify our Saviour.

I have already addressed the issue of Ananias and Sapphira. They were unsaved. They were not of the multitude that laid the full price at the Apostle's feet.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

6. Health.

I Cor. 11:29-30, “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”

The “damnation” in verse twenty-nine is clarified to be temporal in verse thirty, that is, they suffer the consequences in this life, not the next. It’s possible for a Christian to lose his health because of sin. In this case it’s because they were taking part in the Lord’s Supper with unrepentant hearts; some even died.

There’s a true story about a pastor who had problem with adultery in his church. Several families were involved in “swinging,” and they refused to get right. Oddly enough, they kept coming to church. The details of this story are not clear as to whether or not the pastor attempted to “church” the swingers or not, or even if he knew who they all were. One thing is clear though: the pastor began a policy of having communion every Sunday. The adulterers were there, and they took part in it every week. Within the course of a year, several of them died and the eventually problem went away.

Thankfully, God is longsuffering and merciful, but the Scriptures tell us He will suddenly destroy the stubborn and rebellious. God hates arrogance and pride. We should always try to live right for the Lord because we love him, but God wasn’t kidding when He said “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”

Again, not proving a suicide will be granted eternal life. Notice Paul said that those who drank unworthily drank damnation to themselves? God's children are not, and cannot be damned. Those who drank unworthily were not saved, and God killed them.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

7. Peace.

Luke 22:62, “And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.”

Peter wasn’t humming “Peace, peace, wonderful peace, coming down from…” that night. He sat alone that night in the cold air, sobbing that he had denied his Savior. He lost his peace. Many Christians lose their peace because they’ve ruined their relationship with the Father. They’re still saved, but sin has gotten in between them and God.

Many people ignore the clear teachings of the Bible and head down the path of life based upon their own wisdom. This is especially true when it comes to finances and child training. When they wind up in over their heads, they have no where to turn because the road behind them was paved with worldly wisdom. They have no peace because they suddenly realize that the security they had was based in man’s philosophies and not the promises found in the word of God. The only cure for this is to give up everything you thought you knew and dig deep into the word of God for the truth, and then to latch hold of the promises of God with everything you’ve got.

Peter repented, didn't he? And became a driving force in the witness of Christ to the lost. Again, not addressing suicide at all.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

8. Protection of God.

I Cor. 5:5, “To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

Once again, we are reading about punishment that is dealt in this life – not the next life. In this case we have Paul recommending that a local church “deliver” a young man unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, but that the man’s spirit would still be saved.

Job is the reason why we know that terrible events in one’s life don’t always indicate sin in one’s life. It’s a terrifying thought to think of what Satan would like to do to you. He is evil incarnate, and would do everything to you that he did to Job if God let him. In fact, Satan would have done more to Job, but God limited him.

The protection of God is not something to be taken for granted. God will kill a Christian, allow a Christian to become sick, and He will also remove His hand of protection over a Christian and allow Satan to have his way with him.

Paul told the Church to turn that man over to satan. Elsewhere, he said if a brother be overtaken in a fault to restore such an one in the spirit of meekness. Notice the contrast? The man in Corinth was not saved, but had heard the Gospel. Paul said to oust the man from the fellowship. Why? He wasn't saved and in sin. They were allowing it in their midst and Paul was instructing them to put a stop to it. Paul had hopes that the man had heard enough of the Gospel that that man's soul would be saved when the Lord brought conviction.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

9. Blessings of God.

Mal. 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

In the Old Testament God blessed people for tithing, and there’s no reason to believe that in the New Testament He doesn’t do the same. One can hear testimony after testimony of God’s provision during hard times, and the blessings, both tangible and intangible that come down from God upon the believer. Those who live their lives for the Lord experience the blessings of God in their lives.

There’s nothing quite as wonderful as seeing God do something special in your life. It makes a child of God feel special and uniquely loved by his Father. How sad would it be for a Christian to live his whole life for himself and never know what this is like!

Tithing is not a New Testament command. The child of God is not commanded to tithe today. We are instructed to give as we purpose in our own hearts. This point has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

10. Assurance of Salvation.

I Tim. 4:2, “Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;”

Some people aren’t confused about salvation as described in chapter one of this book. Instead, some Christians have scorned the grace of God and lived their lives in sin. When this happens, the Holy Spirit is quenched (He’s still there, you just can’t hear Him anymore) and the man’s conscience is seared. Very often when this happens, the assurance of salvation is gone. “How could I be saved and do…” This isn’t a matter of God taking something away from you; it’s just one of the many natural consequences of sin.

As you can see, a Christian does stand to lose a lot, or miss out on some pretty wonderful things if he lives his life for himself. Paul warned the Romans to not sin that “grace may abound.” God is merciful, but He’s not one to be trifled with.

Who is speaking lies in hypocrisy? Those who depart from the faith and give heed to doctrines of devils. This is not saying they were saved and lost their Salvation. Matter of fact, it proves that they were not saved at all. They turned from the truth to believe a lie. Those who are saved are guided by the Holy Spirit.

Not one of your points prove a saved person can come to the point of committing suicide or will commit suicide.... not one!

[Standing Firm In Christ]

2. Saved people never backslide on a permanent basis, there are sins that a Christian is unable to commit, and a Christian will always get right at some point.

Here are the problems I have with the second view:

1. What sins are a Christian incapable of committing? Where does the Bible lay this out? If a Christian and a lost man both have the same old nature in them (which they do) then isn't a saved man who is completely following the flesh just as capable of sins as a lost man?

A Christian will never commit suicide. God disciplines them and brings them to right standing again.

2. Where does the Bible state that a Christian will always get right? If a Christian will always get right, why does God kill Christians who refuse to get right (see points 5, 6, and 8)? Obviously there are times that a Christian backslides and doesn't get right! Ananias and Sapphira, Demas, Diotrephes... who knows, maybe even Hymenaeus and Alexander were saved??

I have already addressed these points. Hebrewws 12.reveals that God chastens those He loves. If any don't feel the chastening of the Lord, the Word of God reveals that they are bastards and not sons.

3. There is no clear and consistent standard when it comes to this teaching. No drunks are saved! But we'll ignore liars. No Christian will commit suicide... but he'll murder and cheat on his wife (David)? C'mon, this teaching is about as solid as the idea you can lose your salvation. Those who teach you can lose your salvation all have different rules on how to do it and no two of them agree. Certain sins will damn you, but NOT MY SINS!

The child of God may sin, but he will not continue in sin because God will chasten him. God chastened David through Nathan. By the way, David was not still living in adultery when Nathan rebuked him. The New Testament reveals that once a woman's husband is dead, the man the woman married is no longer an adulterer. Once Uriah died in battle, David could marry Bathsheba without being an adulterer. David's sin was great, but God chastened him... and he repented.

God always chastens those He loves. And those He chastens hear His voice and follow Him.

[LindaR]

Something to think about:

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee

Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

[Brother Rick]

SFIC, you are way to quick to assume that the man in I Cor. 5 was lost. He was saved! If he died after being given over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, his SPIRIT would have been saved. He was not lost. God was going to kill him if he had not repented. This fact destroys your theory that Christians always repent eventually. Your teaching is very flimsy. All these people who professed to be Christians were not? Every single one of them? Because they didn't endure to the end (sounds like Calvinism to me!)? When things start becoming a little “too convenient” I smell the strong scent of bologna. I don't buy what you’re saying and nobody else does either.

I don't buy the idea that God removes a Christian's free will at salvation - which is the end result of what you're saying. You might as well become a Calvinist and get it over with because that is where you're headed.

A drunk goes to Hell, even if he has a profession of faith - but not a liar (same verse in Revelation!). A man can be saved and commit murder, adultery, and even incest - but no Christian is capable of committing suicide?

Suicide is the greatest affront to God? Are you kidding me? Idolatry is the greatest affront to God, not suicide. How many stories of people who killed themselves while in dark depression or drug addiction would you have to hear before you understood that? If I came home to find my family raped and murdered I might commit suicide! Do you think I would do it out of a deep rebellion to God or because I felt hopeless and wanted out? To broad-brush suicide as the worst sin is so unbelievable. Honestly, biblically, God killed and judged more people over complaining and idolatry, and He spends much more time talking about how bad those sins are than any other sin. He hardly ever mentions suicide.

You are so incredibly off base, it's very, very sad. The saddest part about this is the stuff you are saying here can really hurt some people. For those that have loved ones who may have killed themselves, your words could be very hurtful. I think you need to really get into your Bible, prayer, some serious self-examination.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[heartstrings]

What happened to Samson was "muwth", not "ratsach" There is a difference. God does not want man committing suicide.

If you were standing under a ton of bricks and you knew that all you had to do was intentionally push two pillars aside to let it fall on you... yes sir, pushing those pillars would be suicide. If you can't get that, I see no point in wasting any more time on this one.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

SFIC, you are way to quick to assume that the man in I Cor. 5 was lost. He was saved! If he died after being given over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, his SPIRIT would have been saved. He was not lost. God was going to kill him if he had not repented. This fact destroys your theory that Christians always repent eventually. Your teaching is very flimsy. All these people who professed to be Christians were not? Every single one of them? Because they didn't endure to the end (sounds like Calvinism to me!)? When things start becoming a little “too convenient” I smell the strong scent of bologna. I don't buy what you’re saying and nobody else does either.

I don't buy the idea that God removes a Christian's free will at salvation - which is the end result of what you're saying. You might as well become a Calvinist and get it over with because that is where you're headed.

A drunk goes to Hell, even if he has a profession of faith - but not a liar (same verse in Revelation!). A man can be saved and commit murder, adultery, and even incest - but no Christian is capable of committing suicide?

Suicide is the greatest affront to God? Are you kidding me? Idolatry is the greatest affront to God, not suicide. How many stories of people who killed themselves while in dark depression or drug addiction would you have to hear before you understood that? If I came home to find my family raped and murdered I might commit suicide! Do you think I would do it out of a deep rebellion to God or because I felt hopeless and wanted out? To broad-brush suicide as the worst sin is so unbelievable. Honestly, biblically, God killed and judged more people over complaining and idolatry, and He spends much more time talking about how bad those sins are than any other sin. He hardly ever mentions suicide.

You are so incredibly off base, it's very, very sad. The saddest part about this is the stuff you are saying here can really hurt some people. For those that have loved ones who may have killed themselves, your words could be very hurtful. I think you need to really get into your Bible, prayer, some serious self-examination.

Rick, I could say you are way too quick to say the man was saved.

In Romans, Paul admonishes the reader to not continue in sin. (Romans 6:1-2). In Galatians, he exhorts the spiritual to restore one who has been overtaken in a fault. Paul would not have instructed the Church to turn a saved man over to the devil. The man was lost.

[Invicta]

Jerry, please go back and read my posts. I never said a saved person could lose his or her Salvation. I said some will prove that they never were saved to begin with.

Are you saying that a believer, who in a instant of dispair, for instance, jumps off a bridge, or falls under a tube train, is not saved?

[Brother Rick]

I'm not quick at all to assume he was saved. It's clear in the verse that if he died his spirit would be saved, though his flesh was delivered to Satan.

He was saved! Also, he repented and was restored to the church. You don't restore (as in bring back into fellowship) a lost person.


You're grasping at straws and ignoring the clear evidence against your position.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If you were standing under a ton of bricks and you knew that all you had to do was intentionally push two pillars aside to let it fall on you... yes sir, pushing those pillars would be suicide. If you can't get that, I see no point in wasting any more time on this one.

If I pushed a ton of bricks, they would not fall unless God gave me the strength to do so.

The fact is, Samson was given the strength to do what he did and he asked God to let him die. Samson was not taking his own life, he was requesting God to take his life

[heartstrings]

If I pushed a ton of bricks, they would not fall unless God gave me the strength to do so.

The fact is, Samson was given the strength to do what he did and he asked God to let him die. Samson was not taking his own life, he was requesting God to take his life

^{Judges 16:28}And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.
²⁹And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.
³⁰And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.