How strongly would you try to dissuade a 17-year old from getting an eyebrow barbell?

[1John2:15-17]

Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated.

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted.

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin.

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively".

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.

Thanks John. I must have been typing my reply as you were posting yours. I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, my reply may have been a little harsh....I'm just tired of the few that come here, trying to bring and justify their worldly ways.

[1John2:15-17]

Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated. That's right!

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted. That will preach!!

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin. AMEN!!

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively". You are sooooooooooo correct. All too many people want to hear a watered-down gospel, one that doesn't tell them that they are a sinner, that there is a real literal hell...

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.

[farouk]

cubfan:

Okay so now I supposedly support the theology of Rick Warren, Benny Hinn, because I have suggested that you can't judge the motives of some Christians who see some things in a somewhat different light from yourself. If you really knew me, I don't think you would make these accusations, friend.

Now you see why some Bible reading people coming to certain very conservative churches with questions, sometimes find it hard to penetrate an accusatory mentality.

Oh well.
.......................

Well, folks, does anyone have more on topic comments about the thread?

[farouk]

Keifer:

I was thinking of the previous verse (27):

'Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. '

Just making an honest, exegetical enquiry. ...

PS: after all the to and fro of the past few hours, no-one seems to have answered this point yet....

(Just wondered..)

Blessings. Edited July 29, 2011 by farouk

[Keifer]

PS: after all the to and fro of the past few hours, no-one seems to have answered this point yet....

(Just wondered..)

Blessings.

Just taking a stab here, but I'm betting it's 'cause we're ignoring it. :heh:

[Salyan]

Maybe they're tired of the subject.

Now you see why some Bible reading people coming to certain very conservative churches with questions, sometimes find it hard to penetrate an accusatory mentality.

Frankly, farouk, your comments no longer feel like honest questions. If they did, you wouldn't be experiencing such an 'accusatory mentality.' You've pushed a number of issues on and on and it feels like you've ignored all Biblical responses given. There have also been a number of 'jabs' (that's what I call them) - throwing a gratutious reference to a controversial topic into a place where they really didn't need to be. How did you intent us to take such baiting?

I've only been IFB for 5 years. When I first came - you bet I had a lot of questions!! I actually had a lot of preferences already that matched a lot of IFB standards, but I knew I really didn't have Biblical bases for them. I also didn't want to just take people's word for what they believed - they had to definitely, absolutely prove them without a shadow of a doubt from the Bible (I can be quite stubborn & argumentative when I'm discussing doctrine. ). But I was honestly asking - not just arguing something I had no intent of adopting - and the people at my church could tell that. They must have talked to me for HOURS, all told. And I learned the Biblical bases, and my preferences became convictions.

If you are truly seeking, like I was, then I apologize for taking you the wrong way. But if you are truly seeking, you need to be aware that your style of commenting is helping to create the response you are getting. Maybe it'd be better to listen for a time?

[farouk]

Just taking a stab here, but I'm betting it's 'cause we're ignoring it.

Okay, fine, but you were the one that quoted at me the next verse. So I asked, how do you handle the previous verse?

If this kind of question is somehow unreasonable to ask, then words just don't mean much any more. With me it doesn't matter but there are going to be Bible reading people with questions coming among the places where you guys congregate and presumably they don't want to get the impression that it's even pointless to ask questions about the Bible.

Anyway, to 'help' you, I am wondering if the immediate context of the passage is Old Testament Jews in the land, under the law?

Blessings.

[farouk]

Maybe they're tired of the subject.



Frankly, farouk, your comments no longer feel like honest questions. If they did, you wouldn't be experiencing such an 'accusatory mentality.' You've pushed a number of issues on and on and it feels like you've ignored all Biblical responses given. There have also been a number of 'jabs' (that's what I call them) - throwing a gratutious reference to a controversial topic into a place where they really didn't need to be. How did you intent us to take such baiting?

I've only been IFB for 5 years. When I first came - you bet I had a lot of questions!! I actually had a lot of preferences already that matched a lot of IFB standards, but I knew I really didn't have Biblical bases for them. I also didn't want to just take people's word for what they believed - they had to definitely, absolutely prove them without a shadow of a doubt from the Bible (I can be quite stubborn & argumentative when I'm discussing doctrine. ). But I was honestly asking - not just arguing something I had no intent of adopting - and the people at my church could tell that. They must have talked to me for HOURS, all told. And I learned the Biblical bases, and my preferences became convictions.

If you are truly seeking, like I was, then I apologize for taking you the wrong way. But if you are truly seeking, you need to be aware that your style of commenting is helping to create the response you are getting. Maybe it'd be better to listen for a time?

salyan:

Okay, apologies in case some of my questions were phrased ungraciously.

Currently I'm asking how to handle the Leviticus passage and if you have any wisdom about it, I'd be interested to hear.

I'm really glad to know that you have evidently found a spiritual home, which is what we all need. It's great that where you have gone you've had lots of answers to your questions.

I hope that I'll not stop seeking answers from God's Word, and His people, too, as they read it.

Blessings.

[HappyChristian]

PS: after all the to and fro of the past few hours, no-one seems to have answered this point yet....

(Just wondered..)

Blessings.

Um, I guess you didn't read this:

Those verses are dealing with NOT following the fads and practices of the pagans with whom Israel was surrounded. Our application? Not following the fads of the world, not being swayed by the philosophy of the world, as per instruction in the NT to be separate from the world, to God.

[farouk]

Um, I guess you didn't read this:

HappyChristian:

I saw it but it doesn't answer the question, if verse 28 directly applies, then why doesn't verse 27, apply, too? Plenty of preachers shave, after all.

I'm getting the impression that no-one wants to address this actual question. Well, fine.

Politicians evade questions as a matter of habit, but I like you guys a lot better than politicians. :)

[HappyChristian]

Yes, it does answer the question. The principles behind the verses apply. Nowhere in the Bible does it say men shouldn't shave. Not even in that verse. That verse is simply discussing the pagan STYLE of beard that God didn't want the Israelites to emulate. He didn't want the Israelites to emulate the cutting pagans did (and still do...), either. He doesn't want Christians to look like the world. He doesn't want us to have the philosophy and mindset of the world. Because the world is at enmity with God. And there is plenty of scripture to back that up - verses in that vein have already been quoted.

[Salyan]

We already covered this exact topic here:

[farouk]

Yes, it does answer the question. The principles behind the verses apply. Nowhere in the Bible does it say men shouldn't shave. Not even in that verse. That verse is simply discussing the pagan STYLE of beard that God didn't want the Israelites to emulate. He didn't want the Israelites to emulate the cutting pagans did (and still do...), either. He doesn't want Christians to look like the world. He doesn't want us to have the philosophy and mindset of the world. Because the world is at enmity with God. And there is plenty of scripture to back that up - verses in that vein have already been quoted.

HappyChristian:

Oh, I hadn't thought of that.

Well, thank-you, anyway.

It strikes me that orthodox Jews don't read it like that, though; many of them wear their beards bushy because they think they must not shave or trim the beards. There is a sense in which they see themselves as under the Old Testament law still.

Blessings.

[farouk]

We already covered this exact topic here:

salyan:

I pulled it up and saw what someone posted (not me):

"If we follow the Old Covenant law, then we must not shave either, especially if we're shaping it into a goatee or something. If we are no longer under the law, then the next verse does not apply to us in the New Covenant either. Under the New Covenant, are we under the laws which weren't explicitly done away with from the Old Covenant, or are we under the law of Christ which is explicitly stated in the New Covenant?"

But maybe we are starting to go round in circles.

Blessings.

(PS: I don't want a tattoo any more than you do. It's the exegesis that I am think about.) Edited July 29, 2011 by farouk

[HappyChristian]

I agree, Orthodox Jews do wear their beards like that. And it is precisely what you say: they see themselves still under the OT law. They don't understand that, under Christ, we are free from the written law...and are to obey the principles as found in the NT (that does not negate the OT from being important to us...)