Is such applied today

[John81]

"One could not teach in our Sunday School without having a very high standard of godly living. One who attended the movies or danced or played bridge or used tobacco was not, we thought, a good enough Christian to be a teacher and example to young people."

John R. Rice

[Invicta]

"One could not teach in our Sunday School without having a very high standard of godly living. One who attended the movies or danced or played bridge or used tobacco was not, we thought, a good enough Christian to be a teacher and example to young people."

John R. Rice

It should be, but I doubt it in many cases. In some churches, I believe that much worse is allowed.

[revivedbygrace]

Going to the movies and dancing? Really? I give you tobacco and will concede playing some card games. But I dont see just going to the movies as a problem. Now if you were seen coming out of Hack and Slash 5 that would be a problem. But there are some good movies out there although I concede they are getting fewer and farther between. I also dont see dancing as a problem depending on the setting and who is involved. I see nothing wrong with a husband and wife dancing. I am sure many danced at their weddings even if they haven't done it since And David danced before the Lord as a symbol of worship and praise. If you are going to go that far you might as well ban yourself from your computer because it "might" lead to sin.

[brosmith]

If you are going to go that far you might as well ...

Let's see where God draws the line:

Matthew 5:48 - "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

2 Timothy 2:19 - "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

Titus 2:11,12 - "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"

1 Peter 1:15,16 - "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."

Now, where do you draw the line?

[brosmith]

But I don't see ... I also don't see ... I see nothing wrong with ...

2 Peter 1:9 - "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." Edited May 18, 2011 by brosmith

[revivedbygrace]

Look I am not here to argue. And I am definately not here to have my faith questioned by someone who knows nothing about me. I am not blind brosmith. I know what the bible says about being perfect and holy. The point I was trying to make is some of the things mentioned by the original poster are not necessarily wrong in every instance of their existance. David DID dance before the Lord. Was he wrong for doing so? Just because Paul never danced doesn't mean its wrong in every instance. There have been good movies produce that are not evil in nature and believe it or not some even come close to glorifying God. I know we are to Flee the very appearance of evil. And I admitted in my last post that alot of movies and dancing is just that or I was trying to.
Is it wrong for a husband to dance with his wife? If it is explain to me how it is wrong based on the scriptures you so freely shared. Dancing with your wife wont lead to adultery or fornication she is your wife. How then does it make you less holy or less perfect.
Please explain it to me without implying that I am blind and bound for hell.
I do not want to argue. If my original post was seen as argumentative I did not intend it that way. I did not intend it as an attack on the original poster either. I will leave the forum altogether and not return rather than feud with someone over a difference of opinion. I know my heart and I know my God. This is where I draw the Line.

Edited May 18, 2011 by revivedbygrace

[JerryNumbers]

Wow, and the pastor of the largest SBC Church in town, attends movies, and even suggested from the pulpit R-rated movies the members ought to be sure to attend.

Not many churches there be that holds godly standards.

[revivedbygrace]

Wow, and the pastor of the largest SBC Church in town, attends movies, and even suggested from the pulpit R-rated movies the members ought to be sure to attend.

Not many churches there be that holds godly standards.

Forget it yall obviously havent heard a word I said. And since you havent you can't explain it either.

[DennisD]

"One could not teach in our Sunday School without having a very high standard of godly living. One who attended the movies or danced or played bridge or used tobacco was not, we thought, a good enough Christian to be a teacher and example to young people."

John R. Rice

It is in our church. Our Pastor went so far as to say his standards are the male teachers would wear pants at all times (when outside your house) and the women would wear skirts at all times (while outside the house).

[DennisD]

Forget it yall obviously havent heard a word I said. And since you havent you can't explain it either.

I see what you are saying but I think it's good if a church holds teachers to a higher standard. Our Pastor would never tell someone you can't be a member of this church if you go to movies, he wouldn't say you can't be a good Christian if you go to movies. But, I'm sure he would say to be careful because perception of others and perspective really can hurt a Christians testimony.

Would it be wrong for a Christian to drink non-alcoholic beer? Probably not, but if someone sees you drinking it they'll probably think it's real beer and it might hurt your testimony for Christ (if someone sees you coming out of the movie theater how do they know which movie you went to see?). It's the same thing with teachers and holding them to higher standards. I believe it helps those that are in those particular positions to live a holier life.

Not all Christians agree with women wearing skirts or men wearing pants (and not shorts) but our Pastor felt that was a stipulation he wanted for those that taught children in his church. I love wearing shorts but when I started teaching Jr. Church and Contenders of the Faith...I gladly followed the rules put into place (one of which was wearing pants always - our Pastor gave us leeway in wearing our military physical training uniform though).

[revivedbygrace]

DenisD Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say. And believe me I understand and do believe that teachers should be held to a higher standard, but I don't believe we should generalize and say all of something is bad. I never disagreed or meant to disagree with the original poster, I was just seeking clarification as I can see instances where somethings would be acceptable. Maybe I didn't relay that thought well. I have good thoughts but sometimes have trouble getting them to come out right. Just because a frog hops doesn't mean its green. Anyway like i said I'm not here to argue or post bash with people. I am here for fellowship, to learn when I don't understand something. and to help if i do. Bless you all and sorry if i was disrespectful or contrary in any way. I have my bad moments too.

[DennisD]

No worries, we are all human. I get frustrated just as much as anyone else when I feel I can't get my point across the right way.

[John81]

Was listenting to another Vance Havner sermon this morning. He talked about how today most sin no longer shocks us. In fact, we have become so used to sin that we find ourselves entertained by it and even participating in it. What Christians wouldn't look upon 20 years ago, today they sit and watch on TV.

It's too common for Christians to think in terms of "what's the least I can give up and still be a Christian"; wanting to be as close to certain sins as possible rather than seeking to stay as far from that line where sin begins as possible.

Christians are called to forsake all and follow Christ. We are told that if we love Jesus we will keep His commandments.

Most churches today follow the way of the world, not the path of righteousness. Most churches today would not allow Vance Havner, John R. Rice, Billy Sunday or many of the past men of God to preach from their pulpits.

What is more common today, high standards for those who serve in the church or for the doors being open to almost anyone willing to serve?

[Salyan]

In general churches or in IFB?

In every church, even good IFB ones, I think there can be a temptation to let someone help that does not meet a high standard - just because they are so desparately in need of workers!

[John81]

In general churches or in IFB?

In every church, even good IFB ones, I think there can be a temptation to let someone help that does not meet a high standard - just because they are so desparately in need of workers!

Any churches we are familiar with. Any church which calls itself Christian should be expected to abide by Scripture.

That's a good point with regard to being desperate for workers. It's a shame so many in the church are unwilling to get involved. That would seem to indicate other problems that need to be addressed. Will the pastor attempt to address these problems? Some pastors are too fearful of losing members, of upsetting someone, to even address such matters.

If a church is facing the situation where not enough people are volunteering to work (Sunday school, VBS, nursery, deacons, boards, etc.), how should the pastor and church leadership deal with such a situation? Is it acceptable to lower standards in order to fill positions? If yes, just how much lower will the new line be drawn? Will that new line then be drawn even lower the next time there is a need?

Should the pastor call the congregation to task for their lack of service? Should there be direct efforts to get particular members to step forward in service?

There are many churches today which are basically ran by women because it was decided to lower standards in order to fill positions. This continued until eventually there were women deacons, women running the church boards, and in some cases even having women associate pastors or even pastors. In the churches even more far removed from Scripture, they have even been willing to accept homosexuals in all these positions.

How many churches today take such issues to the Lord and await His working in the situation, even if that means putting some things on hold or even shutting some things down for a time until the Lord provides?