The Talents

[HappyChristian]

What is your view on these verses? (especially verse 30)

Matthew 28:14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Brother Rick]

A Tribulation saint who lost his salvation.

Matthew 24:44-51, "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47) Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


***Runs for cover*** :runforhills:

Edited May 9, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[HappyChristian]

Um, were you serious? Sometimes I just don't know.... :icon_mrgreen:

[no name joe]

My view is that it is a parable about how we should spend our lives and time here on earth. God gives us all abilities, talents, gifts, responsibilities, communities, etc. God desires that we be engaged in our homes, churches, and communities, putting to use that which he has given to us. God will bless us with a rich and rewarding life if we put to use that which he has given to us. How are we to use our time, talents and money? Well, in a way that servies God, demonstrates our love for our neighbors, and in a way that will advance his kingdome. If we do not use what God has given to us, we have been unfaithful, and our lives will suffer. When we are engaged in the lives of those around us, God blesses us, and we are fulfilled. When we disengage and keep what we have to ourselves, we become subject to lonliness, longing, etc. I think this parable reflects that reality.

[HappyChristian]

My view is that it is a parable about how we should spend our lives and time here on earth. God gives us all abilities, talents, gifts, responsibilities, communities, etc. God desires that we be engaged in our homes, churches, and communities, putting to use that which he has given to us. God will bless us with a rich and rewarding life if we put to use that which he has given to us. How are we to use our time, talents and money? Well, in a way that servies God, demonstrates our love for our neighbors, and in a way that will advance his kingdome. If we do not use what God has given to us, we have been unfaithful, and our lives will suffer. When we are engaged in the lives of those around us, God blesses us, and we are fulfilled. When we disengage and keep what we have to ourselves, we become subject to lonliness, longing, etc. I think this parable reflects that reality.

Do you have any ideas of how you would present this concept to children?

[Covenanter]

I think the key to understanding Mat. 25 is the closing verses of Mat. 24, beginning with v. 35.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Jesus gave clearly the signs for the destruction, so that the Jerusalem Christians would know when to flee the city. Since then, we are watching & waiting for Jesus to return when Heaven and earth shall pass away, The command to us is to serve our Lord faithfully while he is "away." (Though, of course, he is with us always...)

Mat. 25 gives typical situations where his followers & pretended followers serve - keep our lights burning, use our talents faithfully, support needy believers for in so doing we serve their & our brother - Jesus himself.

Those who "sleep", those who waste their talents & reject the Lord's command, & those who despise needy believers show they are not true believers, not faithful Christians serving their Lord. They suffer the judgment of hell.

[Brother Rick]

My view is that it is a parable about how we should spend our lives and time here on earth. God gives us all abilities, talents, gifts, responsibilities, communities, etc. God desires that we be engaged in our homes, churches, and communities, putting to use that which he has given to us. God will bless us with a rich and rewarding life if we put to use that which he has given to us. How are we to use our time, talents and money? Well, in a way that servies God, demonstrates our love for our neighbors, and in a way that will advance his kingdome. If we do not use what God has given to us, we have been unfaithful, and our lives will suffer. When we are engaged in the lives of those around us, God blesses us, and we are fulfilled. When we disengage and keep what we have to ourselves, we become subject to lonliness, longing, etc. I think this parable reflects that reality.

Those are good principles for this age, and it's true that wasting our talents will cause us to suffer loss in this life and at the Judgment Seat of Christ, but where the difference is if we blow it here we're not thrown in Hell as this servant was.

Um, were you serious? Sometimes I just don't know....

Ha-ha, no problem. Yes, I was.

I believe Scriptures such as the one you provided show that a Tribulation Saint can lose his salvation. Someone there is a servant of the Lord, and then somehow he's not, and then he's cast into Hell. It's not a case of a Church Age saint simply missing out on rewards.

I believe if a Tribulation saint takes the mark it's over for him, there's no exception made in the Bible for anyone who takes the mark and there's no promise of Eternal Security for those in the Tribulation. They are not in the body of Christ, they are not sealed with the Holy Spirit, and they do not have the promises that God gave us.

I know these kind of worm-cans usually get me called a heretic, hyper-dispensationalist, or other things and that's why I put in the goofy emoticon. We're Baptists, and very hardnosed on the doctrines and promises that God gave us in this age. But the fact of the matter is that those promises may or may not be for people in other ages, and I think when it comes to the Tribulation that it's clear they're not. Edited May 9, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[Covenanter]

I posted without seeing the other replies. I agree with KOB & totally reject Rick's post. We need to keep the Scripture relevant to our present generation. Slotting prophecy into future dispensations is not helpful to us - he's saying "this Scripture is nothing to do with living, serving Christians in the present Gospel age."

Do you have any ideas of how you would present this concept to children?

Here is a dollar. I want you to do something for me with the money.

Should you:
1. Buy sweets for yourself?
2. Buy bread for the family?
3. Buy a bucket & sponge & wash people's cars at 50c a time & give 10$ back to Mum?
4. Hide it in your room & go & play?

[no name joe]

Do you have any ideas of how you would present this concept to children?

I think even children have talents, abilities, gifts, and responsibilitis. Of course, as adults, we are to help children find, discover and devlop those God given talents and gifts. It think, from a young age, we should give children appropriate responsibilities. We should encourage them to love their neighbors and serve others, in the ways that they can. We should teach them that being a follower of Christ means serving others in the ways that we can. It is never too early to begin. Of course, we should not give them so much responsibility that they feel burdened, but enough to feel useful, important and like they are contributing.

As the child grows and hopefully decides to follow Christ on his or her own, and as the child grows in stature, wisdom and experience, the hope is that they will begin looking after the needs of others. It is also important to teach children that isolating themselves and not engaging in community and serviing others leads to lonliness and despair.

I think of The Christmas Carol by Dickens, and Scrooge, who was unhappy when he hoarded his wealth. But when the spirit of Christmas invaded his heart, he became happy and could not help but give of hiimself to his community. That story is similar to this parable (I'm not saying the story is gospel truth, but that it contains an element of gospel truth). When the love of Christ invades our hearts, we must engage in our communities to serve others and spread that love.

Children should be encouragd to share what they like to do and are good at with other people. That is a good place to start.

[HappyChristian]

Good suggestions, Covenanter. I'm teaching this in a couple of weeks in Sunday School. I have some foil wrapped chocolate coins, and am going to have 3 of the kids to act out the parts of the servants. Your questions would be a good intro.

Rick - technically, this is about the talents, but I've got a question for you - if someone is a saint, how can they become an un-saint? Didn't know how else to phrase it.

[HappyChristian]

I think even children have talents, abilities, gifts, and responsibilitis. Of course, as adults, we are to help children find, discover and devlop those God given talents and gifts. It think, from a young age, we should give children appropriate responsibilities. We should encourage them to love their neighbors and serve others, in the ways that they can. We should teach them that being a follower of Christ means serving others in the ways that we can. It is never too early to begin. Of course, we should not give them so much responsibility that they feel burdened, but enough to feel useful, important and like they are contributing.

As the child grows and hopefully decides to follow Christ on his or her own, and as the child grows in stature, wisdom and experience, the hope is that they will begin looking after the needs of others. It is also important to teach children that isolating themselves and not engaging in community and serviing others leads to lonliness and despair.

I think of The Christmas Carol by Dickens, and Scrooge, who was unhappy when he hoarded his wealth. But when the spirit of Christmas invaded his heart, he became happy and could not help but give of hiimself to his community. That story is similar to this parable (I'm not saying the story is gospel truth, but that it contains an element of gospel truth). When the love of Christ invades our hearts, we must engage in our communities to serve others and spread that love.

Children should be encouragd to share what they like to do and are good at with other people. That is a good place to start.

Good thoughts, KOB. This is one of the things we strive to teach our Sunday School kids all year long. I think I'm going to print off these posts (and others that come along) and work them into my lesson.

[Brother Rick]

I posted without seeing the other replies. I agree with KOB & totally reject Rick's post. We need to keep the Scripture relevant to our present generation. Slotting prophecy into future dispensations is not helpful to us - he's saying "this Scripture is nothing to do with living, serving Christians in the present Gospel age."

Of course you don't, you don't even believe in a future Tribulation period.

As far as teaching this to kids, I would go to Luke 19 where you don't have the distraction of having to explain to the kids why one of Jesus' servants got thrown in Hell - which they'll ask for sure.

Luke 19:12-26, "He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13) And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14) But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15) And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16) Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17) And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18) And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19) And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20) And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21) For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22) And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23) Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24) And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25) (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26) For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him."

Rick - technically, this is about the talents, but I've got a question for you - if someone is a saint, how can they become an un-saint? Didn't know how else to phrase it.

Well, first of all I'd say I don't have to know how or why it can happen to simply believe the word of God when it says it can. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, or anything like that at all. I'm just saying that because so much of the time "if it doesn't make sense" or if it doesn't "fit" our Baptist system we don't believe it. In Matthew 24 and 28 it's very clear that a Tribulation saint CAN lose it.

How they lose it? I already said that, I believe it's by taking the mark. People have cracked and denied Christ all throughout history and to think that they won't during the Tribulation period is wishful thinking. Some Christians will tragically take the mark to feed their families. Edited May 9, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[John81]

Scripture is clear that one is either born again in Christ, and thus a child of God, forever...or they are not. Once born into the family of God, whether past, present or future, one cannot be "unborn" from the family of God.

In context, these verses are speaking to "us" and how we are to live today, all of our "todays", and is not speaking of a future time.

We all have talents, gifts from God, whether that be money, certain skills (manual skills, administrative skills, etc.), etc. What are we going to do with these? Will they be used for our own benefit alone? Wasted, left unused? Used for the benefit of others in the name of Jesus?

Scripture warns us to examine our salvation, to make sure we are born again in Christ. Among the ways we are to do this is by examining the fruit in our lives. What are we doing with our lives? Do we give of our time, talent, money, resources to the Lord and those in need in His name? Are we focused upon doing all we can for ourselves without concern for others? Do we give any more than token attention to the things of God? Do we share or do we hoard? Do we seek ways to help others or do we hide our eyes so we can claim we don't see anyone in need?

[John81]

Well, first of all I'd say I don't have to know how or why it can happen to simply believe the word of God when it says it can. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, or anything like that at all. I'm just saying that because so much of the time "if it doesn't make sense" or if it doesn't "fit" our Baptist system we don't believe it. In Matthew 24 and 28 it's very clear that a Tribulation saint CAN lose it.

How they lose it? I already said that, I believe it's by taking the mark. People have cracked and denied Christ all throughout history and to think that they won't during the Tribulation period is wishful thinking. Some Christians will tragically take the mark to feed their families.

A born again believer is sealed by the Holy Ghost and would be unable to take the mark. A false believer, even one who really thinks they are a Christian but who has never actually surrendered to Christ and been born again could indeed take the mark, but they would not be losing their salvation because they had never been in Christ.

The passage from the OP is, in part, a warning to professing Christians to be sure of their salvation because if they are not truly saved their lives will reflect this (giving them warning) and if they die in that condition they will be hell bound.

[Seth Doty]

Well, first of all I'd say I don't have to know how or why it can happen to simply believe the word of God when it says it can. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, or anything like that at all. I'm just saying that because so much of the time "if it doesn't make sense" or if it doesn't "fit" our Baptist system we don't believe it. In Matthew 24 and 28 it's very clear that a Tribulation saint CAN lose it.

How they lose it? I already said that, I believe it's by taking the mark. People have cracked and denied Christ all throughout history and to think that they won't during the Tribulation period is wishful thinking. Some Christians will tragically take the mark to feed their families.

I reject the view rick presents here as error. Nobody, at any time, in any dispensation, ever "lost" salvation. Nor will they. Salvation isn't ours to "lose". If salvation could ever be lost in any dispensation it is based on works and not on grace through faith. It is written: "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Edited May 10, 2011 by Seth-Doty