Two Kingdoms?

[Invicta]

They think it is a roller coaster ride. Up to meet him in the air, and then right back down to the ground.

Jesus is returning. We will meet him in the air, that is what the scripture says, not that Jesus is coming to the air, as the Plymouth Brethren teach, that is false.

[Seth Doty]

Jesus is returning. We will meet him in the air, that is what the scripture says, not that Jesus is coming to the air, as the Plymouth Brethren teach, that is false.

Question. What in your opinion, or the opinion of those with views resembling your own, was the purpose of the OT "rapture" of Enoch and Elijah?

[dantheman2]

Well I agree that his kingdom is one kingdom in a sense, but there are two phases of it so sometimes it is spoken of as present and sometimes it is spoken of as future. The first phase is spiritual and the second physical as well as spiritual. Christs first coming he came as the lamb of God, at his second coming he is the Lion of the tribe of Judah who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron.

Is Christ now our High Priest?

[Brother Rick]

The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are very synonymous, but they are not exactly the same thing. Like a teacher and a professor, or a PC and a Mac. Very similar, but still different. They have overlapping definitions, but they are not identical.

The Kingdom of God is spiritual, it's not meat or drink, it is within you, and it is God's kingdom.

The Kingdom of Heaven is within the Kingdom of God, that's why they can be (and are) used interchangeably in the Gospels. The KoH is different, and it's hard to nail down. It's only used in the Gospel of Matthew, which is heavy Millennial kingdom gospel (Covenanter just checked out). It's the gospel that Christ sends His apostles to ignore the Gentiles and witness only to the Jews (Matthew 10) and it's the gospel that has the famous Judgment of the Nations in it. Matthew 11:12 talks about the Kingdom of Heaven being taken by force and violence. Matthew 8:11 talks about people travelling long distances to sit down and meet with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the KoH. Matthew 25 is all about the Second Coming, and it mentions the Kingdom of Heaven allot. My best estimation is that the KoH has to do with the Jewish Kingdom and the Millennial Kingdom.

Other intersting verses:

Mark 11:9-10, "And they that went before, and they that followed, cried saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
10) Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest."

II Sam. 16:1-3, "And when David was a little past the top of the hill, behold, Ziba the servant of Mephibosheth met him, with a couple of asses saddled, and upon them two hundred loaves of bread, and an hundred bunches of raisins, and an hundred of summer fruits, and a bottle of wine.
2) And the king said unto Ziba, What meanest thou by these? And Ziba said, The asses be for the king's household to ride on; and the bread and summer fruit for the young men to eat; and the wine, that such as be faint in the wilderness may drink.
3) And the king said, And where is thy master's son? And Ziba said unto the king, Behold, he abideth at Jerusalem: for he said, To day shall the house of Israel restore me the kingdom of my father."

Acts 1:6, "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

[Wilchbla]

The fact that Matthew's gospel focused in on the coming, literal, phyisical Davidic, Abrahamic kingdom promised to the Jews and that the term "kingdom of heaven" is used exclusively in Matthews gospel then I would say there is a difference between the two. Although in some sense they are overlapping. You can't get into the kingdom of heaven(physical) without getting into the kingdom of God (spiritual) first.

[dantheman2]

The fact that Matthew's gospel focused in on the coming, literal, phyisical Davidic, Abrahamic kingdom promised to the Jews and that the term "kingdom of heaven" is used exclusively in Matthews gospel then I would say there is a difference between the two. Although in some sense they are overlapping. You can't get into the kingdom of heaven(physical) without getting into the kingdom of God (spiritual) first.

Does Christ now sit on the throne of David?

[dantheman2]

Does Christ now sit on the throne of David? And I renew my question, Is Christ now our High Priest?

[Seth Doty]

Yes Christ is the high priest, no he is not on the throne of David at this time. He is seated at the right hand of God till the proper time comes for him to take the throne of his father David.

[Wilchbla]

Yes Christ is the high priest, no he is not on the throne of David at this time. He is seated at the right hand of God till the proper time comes for him to take the throne of his father David.

This above. The throne of David will be on the earth.

[Covenanter]

Let us try to look at the question through the primary "filter" - Scripture itself, without using a theological system.

In the Gospels, Jesus was giving instructions to his disciples to preach to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. Rick states:

The KoH is different, and it's hard to nail down. It's only used in the Gospel of Matthew, which is heavy Millennial kingdom gospel (Covenanter just checked out). It's the gospel that Christ sends His apostles to ignore the Gentiles and witness only to the Jews (Matthew 10) and it's the gospel that has the famous Judgment of the Nations in it.

That, of course, does NOT mean that God's intended purpose excluded the Gentiles. Jesus saving work had to be finished before the Gospel was sent out to all nations.

Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The Apostles preached to the Jews first, & were led into preaching the same Gospel tothe Gentiles.

Matthew 8:11 talks about people travelling long distances to sit down and meet with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the KoH. Matthew 25 is all about the Second Coming, and it mentions the Kingdom of Heaven allot. My best estimation is that the KoH has to do with the Jewish Kingdom and the Millennial Kingdom.

Mat. 8:11 - Have you read the next verse, since you claim it's "to do with the Jewish Kingdom and the Millennial Kingdom."

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus does NOT say "people travelling long distances." And there is a severe warning for the Jews.

Interpreters looking for a "Jewish Kingdom and the Millennial Kingdom" make much of Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Jesus dismisses the question by repeating the great commission. The "kingdom of Israel" is NEVER mentioned again in the NT.

During the 40 days, Jesus was speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. It seems that the Apostles saw an omission in Jesus' teaching. When the Holy Spirit inspired their preaching, there was no mention of the kingdom of Israel.

When did Jesus ascend to David's throne? Peter declares:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Is David's throne on earth, & will Jesus one day sit on it, 2000 or more years after the ascension? What does Scripture say? The prophecies given to David are prophecies of Jesus.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

2Sa 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

1Ch 29:11 Thine, O LORD, [is] the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all [that is] in the heaven and in the earth [is thine]; thine [is] the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
.....
23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.

The prophets agree:

Jer 23:5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set [them] upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name [is] The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Hebrews writes of Jesus, quoting Psalm 45:

Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Jesus has the promised eternal throne. He is the only one in all Scripture holding the combined office of Priest & King.

[dantheman2]

Yes Christ is the high priest, no he is not on the throne of David at this time. He is seated at the right hand of God till the proper time comes for him to take the throne of his father David.

You can't have it both ways; Zech 6:13 states that He will be priest while on His throne. He is now HP and He is now reigning upon His throne, the throne of David which is of course in Heaven.

[Brother Rick]

Right, Satan is bound in chains today and Jesus is ruling the world - yet evil and wickedness grows and grows and truth is tranpled in the streets.

I don't think so.

[dantheman2]

Right, Satan is bound in chains today and Jesus is ruling the world - yet evil and wickedness grows and grows and truth is tranpled in the streets.

I don't think so.

You have that much right....you "don't think".... or maybe you just think too much.

You want to argue with what the Bible has to say, you can take that up with God.

Zech 6:13 states that He will be both King and Priest (HP) at the same time. He is now High Priest. He must therefore be King NOW!

Why do People continue to think in the physical? The Jews did it in Christ day and now people continue to do so.

[Brother Rick]

You have that much right....you "don't think".... or maybe you just think too much.

You want to argue with what the Bible has to say, you can take that up with God.

In the words of Charlie Brown, "Good grief."

I Cor. 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is the god of this world, right now. That's why it's so messed up. When Jesus rules the world, it will be allot better, spiritually and physically.

Christ is High Priest now, and in the future He will be High Priest and King - that's where Zech. 6:13 comes in.

[dantheman2]

In the words of Charlie Brown, "Good grief."

I Cor. 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is the god of this world, right now. That's why it's so messed up. When Jesus rules the world, it will be allot better, spiritually and physically.

Christ is High Priest now, and in the future He will be High Priest and King - that's where Zech. 6:13 comes in.

How sad...as I have said before....none are so blind as those who will not see.

Not much use in me arguing with someone who refuses to see.