Hermeneutics

[Covenanter]

Yes, TRC. The principle there is: I, being in the way, the LORD led me.

Walking with God keeps us in the way.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Covenanter

[Covenanter]

COC:
The Hebrew writer used the example of Christ as the Christian's High Priest and His being from the tribe of Judah which Moses did not speak about or was silent on. Moses never said anything about the Tribe of Judah in relation to the priesthood but simple said that the Priesthood was to come from the tribe of Levi. God was silent when it came to Judah and He forbade it through His silence.

Hbr 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

God gave very specific commands concerning the Levitical/Aaronic priesthood, so that usurpers were fearfully punished. (e.g. Korah & Uzziah.) He further gave prophecy concerning Christ, after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron. Hebrews is not arguing from silence, but from the specific teaching of Scripture.

[coc333]

Hbr 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

God gave very specific commands concerning the Levitical/Aaronic priesthood, so that usurpers were fearfully punished. (e.g. Korah & Uzziah.) He further gave prophecy concerning Christ, after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron. Hebrews is not arguing from silence, but from the specific teaching of Scripture.

How can you say it doesn't speak from silence? "of which tribe Moses SPAKE NOTHING concerning priesthood" That is silence of the scripture. Now, you are correct as far as the Bible also looks at other specific statements/teachings such as the fact that He would be a priest after the order of Melchisedec.

[heartstrings]

"Silence of the scripture" - when the scripture is silent on a specific issue. For example....the New Testament (nor the Old for that matter) does not say "thou shalt not use mechanical instruments" but it does teach through silence of the scriptures that we are not to use them. Allow me to explain. Eph 5:19; Col 3:16 teach us that we are to sing. God tells us that we are to sing but does not speak specifically (in NT) about the use of mechanicle instruments. It is silent. Some argue that His silence allows us to then use them if we want. The Bible teaches that when scripture is silent, we are not free to decide. (Heb 7:12-14)

The Hebrew writer used the example of Christ as the Christian's High Priest and His being from the tribe of Judah which Moses did not speak about or was silent on. Moses never said anything about the Tribe of Judah in relation to the priesthood but simple said that the Priesthood was to come from the tribe of Levi. God was silent when it came to Judah and He forbade it through His silence.

I hope that I have answered your question.

I agree that it is dangerous to assume that silence of the scriptures allow one to teach whatever one wishes.

(nor the Old for that matter

Psalm 150
1Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

[coc333]

Heart,

Maybe you should go back and read what I actually said about the OT rather than take it out of context.

[Bro Jim]

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Takes care of any silence of the scriptures.

[Bro Jim]

Kinda simple for a simple guy like me, If I ain't sure then I will ask myself if it would be the holy thing that God would do.

You want to make it complicated then make it complicated.

[Covenanter]

How can you say it doesn't speak from silence? "of which tribe Moses SPAKE NOTHING concerning priesthood" That is silence of the scripture. Now, you are correct as far as the Bible also looks at other specific statements/teachings such as the fact that He would be a priest after the order of Melchisedec.

That is NOT Scripture being silent, it is Scripture being very specific about the priesthood, so that all the other tribes & Levite families are excluded. No-one could argue from such "silence" that therefore the other tribes could possibly serve as priests. Clear commands were given.

Now concerning your musical instruments, we are commanded to sing, Psalms, etc, but there is no mention of instruments in Christian worship during the Gospel age. We are not violating a specific command, nor is there an established principle. Melody in the heart is not violated by instrumental music.

Instruments were used in OC worship, & in the Psalms, & are used in heaven, though surely in heaven our voices will be perfected, so there is no need of instruments there.

You are being legalistic. Romans 14 applies.

[coc333]

That is NOT Scripture being silent, it is Scripture being very specific about the priesthood, so that all the other tribes & Levite families are excluded. No-one could argue from such "silence" that therefore the other tribes could possibly serve as priests. Clear commands were given.

Now concerning your musical instruments, we are commanded to sing, Psalms, etc, but there is no mention of instruments in Christian worship during the Gospel age. We are not violating a specific command, nor is there an established principle. Melody in the heart is not violated by instrumental music.

Instruments were used in OC worship, & in the Psalms, & are used in heaven, though surely in heaven our voices will be perfected, so there is no need of instruments there.

You are being legalistic. Romans 14 applies.

The scirpture is both silent and clear in this example. It was silent as to the tribe of Judah in reference to the priesthood. If you disagree with that your argument is with the Hebrew writer and specifically with God, not with me.

As to the issue of mechanicle instruments, as I stated, I used that as an example only; I was not attempting to begin a discussion of the subject. If you wish to start a thread on it, I am certainly glad to have a study on it in the proper place.

As to your claim of my being legalistic, you are no the first person to make such an attack. It is easy to throw attacks on someone. It is easier to do so than to simply look at the facts. I suppose I could call you a liberal or some other name.

[John81]

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Takes care of any silence of the scriptures.

We are to submit to the leading and teaching of the Holy Ghost, trusting and obeying the Word of God in all things. There is no need, or good, in trying to complicate the matter using our own understanding.

[John81]

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Takes care of any silence of the scriptures.

We are to submit to the leading and teaching of the Holy Ghost, trusting and obeying the Word of God in all things. There is no need, or good, in trying to complicate the matter using our own understanding.

[Covenanter]

COC:
The scirpture is both silent and clear in this example. It was silent as to the tribe of Judah in reference to the priesthood. If you disagree with that your argument is with the Hebrew writer and specifically with God, not with me.

As to the issue of mechanicle instruments, as I stated, I used that as an example only; I was not attempting to begin a discussion of the subject. If you wish to start a thread on it, I am certainly glad to have a study on it in the proper place.

As to your claim of my being legalistic, you are no the first person to make such an attack. It is easy to throw attacks on someone. It is easier to do so than to simply look at the facts. I suppose I could call you a liberal or some other name.

You started the thread to discuss hermeneutics. I have made posts giving general principles, as well as using those principles to consider your own examples.

You pretend that others are distracting your thread. Why don't you make your own contribution to the thread topic?

[heartstrings]

Heart,

Maybe you should go back and read what I actually said about the OT rather than take it out of context.

It may have not been "on topic", but you used your little example to propagate one of your church Church of Christ doctrines: That it's wrong to use "mechanical" instruments.
But I just gave you scripture (Psalm 150) which shows that "mechanical instruments" DO belong in worship. Psalm 150 DOES belong to present day believers, else it wouldn't be in our Bible. I don't see how your example of 'mechanical instruments' even fits with "silence of the scriptures" subject because the scripture very emphatically commands musical instruments to be used.

[JerryNumbers]

If one builds doctrine on silence, them they can nearly build whatever doctrine they wish.

Besides, we are servants of God, we are not to guess what God wants of us, we are to trust and obey.

Plus, the Holy Scriptures has everything we need in order to follow Jesus, we don't have to guess.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

[coc333]

It may have not been "on topic", but you used your little example to propagate one of your church Church of Christ doctrines: That it's wrong to use "mechanical" instruments.
But I just gave you scripture (Psalm 150) which shows that "mechanical instruments" DO belong in worship. Psalm 150 DOES belong to present day believers, else it wouldn't be in our Bible. I don't see how your example of 'mechanical instruments' even fits with "silence of the scriptures" subject because the scripture very emphatically commands musical instruments to be used.

Leviticus is also in our Bible today so that must mean that we are required to offer animal sacrifices today, right? Thoughout the OT many things, including musical instruments, animal sacrifices, Levitical priesthood, etc, are stated as acceptable to the LORD. Those things were nailed to the cross of Christ (Col 2:14).

That very argument is a reason man needs to have a proper hermenuetics. We are to rightly devide the Word (2 Tim 2:15).