STEADFASTNESS

[irishman]

Just for the record, the word "forsake" means "abandon altogether", and not just a hit and miss thing. In Hebrews 13:5 the last part of the verse, we read "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee", do you think the Lord repeats Himslef like a child? No! he says he won't leave us for a moment, nor abandon us altogether. What a blessed promise!

Forsake
FORSA'KE, v.t. pret. forsook; pp. forsaken. See Seek .]

1. To quit or leave entirely; to desert; to abandon; to depart from. Friends and flatterers forsake us in adversity.

Forsake the foolish, and live. Prov 9.

2. To abandon; to renounce; to reject.

Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English

These are the first two meanings, but it gives greater meaning to the words of Christ on the cross too. God forsook Christ because of the sin of the world,and it gives greater meaning to the Hebrews text.

I came back to say that I do believe in regularly attending church on Sundays, but not necessarily because of Heb. 10:25. Many things took place on the first day of the week, and I believe that Jesus ordained that for the church. Look up "first day", it is a great study.

Edited August 19, 2010 by irishman

[JerryNumbers]

<br />Just for the record, the word &quot;forsake&quot; means &quot;abandon altogether&quot;, and not just a hit and miss thing.  In Hebrews 13:5 the last part of the verse, we read &quot;I will never leave thee nor forsake thee&quot;, do you think the Lord repeats Himslef like a child?  No!  he says he won't leave us for a moment, nor abandon us altogether.  What a blessed promise!<br /><br />Forsake<br />FORSA'KE, v.t. pret. forsook; pp. forsaken. See Seek .]<br /><br />1. To quit or leave entirely; to desert; to abandon; to depart from. Friends and flatterers forsake us in adversity.<br /><br />Forsake the foolish, and live. Prov 9.<br /><br />2. To abandon; to renounce; to reject.<br /><br />Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English<br /><br />These are the first two meanings, but it gives greater meaning to the words of Christ on the cross too.  God forsook Christ because of the sin of the world,and it gives greater meaning to the Hebrews text.<br /><br />I came back to say that I do believe in regularly attending church on Sundays, but not necessarily because of Heb. 10:25.  Many things took place on the first day of the week, and I believe that Jesus ordained that for the church.  Look up &quot;first day&quot;, it is a great study.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yet many times we forsake Him, knowing that He promised and will not forsake us. And at times we forsake Him while leading others to do the same.

Heb 13:5 "...for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

Thanks for His grace and mercy.

[chev1958]

No, we ought not restrict our worship of God to only Sunday, we ought to worship God every day of every week, then on Sunday we ought to attend Church. And if we keep getting stuck in a mud hole and cannot get to church, we ought to fix the mud hole.

Amen, Bro Jerry, that'll preach.

[CPR]

I was thinking about this topic, and to be sure sometimes there are reasons that people do not go to church that aren't good excuses. They just want to watch the ball game or go shopping or something like that. However, perhaps we should be more compassionate to people who don't have exactly the same life and schedule that we do. Some people legitimately can't get to church on Sunday mornings and I think it's more people than we think sometimes. Instead of condemning and saying that they should change whatever is keeping them out of church, maybe we should, as the Body of Christ, look at their situation and how we can help those who really desire to be involved in worship and the church. Maybe we can expand service times. Many churches offer services on Sunday evenings and even Saturday evenings. Sometimes evening services during the week in urban areas allow people to come to worship after work. These options would not work for every church and would not appropriately serve every congregation, but sometimes, before we assume that people are making excuses, we might should look at their struggles and their situations and see how church can be a blessing in their lives instead of another stressor.

[trc123]

I was thinking about this topic, and to be sure sometimes there are reasons that people do not go to church that aren't good excuses. They just want to watch the ball game or go shopping or something like that. However, perhaps we should be more compassionate to people who don't have exactly the same life and schedule that we do. Some people legitimately can't get to church on Sunday mornings and I think it's more people than we think sometimes. Instead of condemning and saying that they should change whatever is keeping them out of church, maybe we should, as the Body of Christ, look at their situation and how we can help those who really desire to be involved in worship and the church. Maybe we can expand service times. Many churches offer services on Sunday evenings and even Saturday evenings. Sometimes evening services during the week in urban areas allow people to come to worship after work. These options would not work for every church and would not appropriately serve every congregation, but sometimes, before we assume that people are making excuses, we might should look at their struggles and their situations and see how church can be a blessing in their lives instead of another stressor.

Personally, it's the principle of the thing. We shouldn't have to "cater" to people, after all, just because we are called Ministers doesn't mean we have take into consideration our congregation's needs in this area. I think it is more in keeping with our traditional role to stay with the old tried and true; the things that worked 200 years ago are certainly good enough for today. But, you say, "there is no Scriptural mandate or prohibition for doing it our way" and I would counter that it doesn't matter. Some things are just a matter of the leading of the Holy Spirit. Besides, keeping things the same in this changing culture proves to the world that we are true Christians. It shows everyone who are the true separated and committed believers. Remember, Mt 7:20 - "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."


{Yes, I have put on my flame retardant helmet as this was sarcasm}

[JerryNumbers]

I was thinking about this topic, and to be sure sometimes there are reasons that people do not go to church that aren't good excuses. They just want to watch the ball game or go shopping or something like that. However, perhaps we should be more compassionate to people who don't have exactly the same life and schedule that we do. Some people legitimately can't get to church on Sunday mornings and I think it's more people than we think sometimes. Instead of condemning and saying that they should change whatever is keeping them out of church, maybe we should, as the Body of Christ, look at their situation and how we can help those who really desire to be involved in worship and the church. Maybe we can expand service times. Many churches offer services on Sunday evenings and even Saturday evenings. Sometimes evening services during the week in urban areas allow people to come to worship after work. These options would not work for every church and would not appropriately serve every congregation, but sometimes, before we assume that people are making excuses, we might should look at their struggles and their situations and see how church can be a blessing in their lives instead of another stressor.

For most, its all about choices made, and how much one's faith in God impacts the choices made. Some make choices never considering God, only self, and the amount of money one can make.

I know of many that consider God, Jesus, in every choice they made, and never would take a jOB that would take them away from church attendance, they felt OBeying God, not forsaking the assembling of them self together as some do, of grave importance, they be the ones who made sacrifices for their Lord, not the ones who chose jOBs that prevented them from attending church services.

Really now, the topic is 'Steadfastness,' the one who chooses Sunday work and skipping church, are not steadfast at all, they place importance on things that will separate them from Jesus and Jesus' Churches. The ones who are steadfast are the one who let nothing come between them and their church attendance.

No, those who are in church on Sunday, because they made the right choices for the right reason, they be the steadfast ones, the others, they prove God is of less importance to them than other things. Putting worldly thing in the position of more importance than church attendance is teaching your children that they be things of more importance to you than God, that is wrong.

Now, I will add, those who are working in the health care, taking care of people who really needs taking care of, hospital, nursing homes, and such, I think they will be excused, that is if they did so for the right reason, and yes, motive does mean a lot.

I having been called by God to preach the Gospel, I have to look at it from the Bibles perspective, and refuse to ease the conscience of those who CHOSE not to put God 1st as many do. Its not me not being compassionate, its their lack of compassion for the Lord their God when making choices.

[chev1958]

We shouldn't have to "cater" to people, after all, just because we are called Ministers doesn't mean we have take into consideration our congregation's needs in this area.

I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly. "Minister" means "servant," which means "a person who voluntarily serves another or acts as his minister." A church "minister" who doesn't consider his congregation's needs doesn't have a servant's heart.

Now, needs can be confused with desires. If you meant desires rather than needs, I would agree with that. But if your church had 100 members and 99 couldn't meet on Wednesday nights, but could on Thursday nights, wouldn't you move your service to Thursday nights? Maybe half could meet on Wednesday nights and the other half on Thursday nights, then how about services on both nights? I think a servant-minded minister would consider various options to meet the needs of his congregation.

The chaplains aboard my ship held services at different times of the week to ensure every Sailor had the opportunity to worship. Those chaplains were ministering to the needs of the Sailors who couldn't attend the regular Sunday service. If they didn't, a lot of Sailors wouldn't get to attend worship services.

For most, its all about choices made, and how much one's faith in God impacts the choices made. Some make choices never considering God, only self, and the amount of money one can make.

I agree with this. I'm surprised when someone tells me of a new jOB they're considering. They talk about the quiet neighborhoods, the low cost of living, the good public schools, the cultural scene. When I ask about the churches in the area, they give me the deer-in-the-headlights look. And a lot of times, those people are church-goers. They never even consider their church life in the new town. I think that should be the first consideration.

[trc123]

I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly. "Minister" means "servant," which means "a person who voluntarily serves another or acts as his minister." A church "minister" who doesn't consider his congregation's needs doesn't have a servant's heart.

Now, needs can be confused with desires. If you meant desires rather than needs, I would agree with that. But if your church had 100 members and 99 couldn't meet on Wednesday nights, but could on Thursday nights, wouldn't you move your service to Thursday nights? Maybe half could meet on Wednesday nights and the other half on Thursday nights, then how about services on both nights? I think a servant-minded minister would consider various options to meet the needs of his congregation.

The chaplains aboard my ship held services at different times of the week to ensure every Sailor had the opportunity to worship. Those chaplains were ministering to the needs of the Sailors who couldn't attend the regular Sunday service. If they didn't, a lot of Sailors wouldn't get to attend worship services.

I'm glad you asked. Go back and re-read my original post (not a quoted version). Does the post seem too ridiculous (even for an IFBer) to be "for real?" I would answer yes. If yes, it is too ridiculous to be for real, why would I post it? You might call it satire or sarcasm in an attempt to show the absurdity of a specific idea or philosophical opinion. The idea that we should never consider the needs of our congregation while doing only what we know traditionally to do, not necessarily what the Scriptures actually teach us to do.

For further proof that was my intention, go back again to the original post (not a quoted version) and highlight the entire contents of the post, even down to the small print. You will see a secret message embedded. Edited August 20, 2010 by trc123

[chev1958]

That's why I said, "I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly." As I get older, the connections aren't as smooth as they used to be.

[CPR]

For most, its all about choices made, and how much one's faith in God impacts the choices made. Some make choices never considering God, only self, and the amount of money one can make.

I know of many that consider God, Jesus, in every choice they made, and never would take a jOB that would take them away from church attendance, they felt OBeying God, not forsaking the assembling of them self together as some do, of grave importance, they be the ones who made sacrifices for their Lord, not the ones who chose jOBs that prevented them from attending church services.

Really now, the topic is 'Steadfastness,' the one who chooses Sunday work and skipping church, are not steadfast at all, they place importance on things that will separate them from Jesus and Jesus' Churches. The ones who are steadfast are the one who let nothing come between them and their church attendance.

No, those who are in church on Sunday, because they made the right choices for the right reason, they be the steadfast ones, the others, they prove God is of less importance to them than other things. Putting worldly thing in the position of more importance than church attendance is teaching your children that they be things of more importance to you than God, that is wrong.

Now, I will add, those who are working in the health care, taking care of people who really needs taking care of, hospital, nursing homes, and such, I think they will be excused, that is if they did so for the right reason, and yes, motive does mean a lot.

I having been called by God to preach the Gospel, I have to look at it from the Bibles perspective, and refuse to ease the conscience of those who CHOSE not to put God 1st as many do. Its not me not being compassionate, its their lack of compassion for the Lord their God when making choices.

Are people really steadfast if they've never had to turn down a jOB that required work that would take them away from church? You mention people in healthcare. I agree with your exception there, we certainly need them at all times. But what about others? What motives are okay? Is taking care of your family in the only jOB you could find in this terrible economy not an okay motive?

I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly. "Minister" means "servant," which means "a person who voluntarily serves another or acts as his minister." A church "minister" who doesn't consider his congregation's needs doesn't have a servant's heart.

Now, needs can be confused with desires. If you meant desires rather than needs, I would agree with that. But if your church had 100 members and 99 couldn't meet on Wednesday nights, but could on Thursday nights, wouldn't you move your service to Thursday nights? Maybe half could meet on Wednesday nights and the other half on Thursday nights, then how about services on both nights? I think a servant-minded minister would consider various options to meet the needs of his congregation.

The chaplains aboard my ship held services at different times of the week to ensure every Sailor had the opportunity to worship. Those chaplains were ministering to the needs of the Sailors who couldn't attend the regular Sunday service. If they didn't, a lot of Sailors wouldn't get to attend worship services.

I agree with this and it was what I was trying to convey with my post. All Christians and church members, but especially ministers, should be sensitive to the needs of the community that they serve.

[JerryNumbers]

Are people really steadfast if they've never had to turn down a jOB that required work that would take them away from church? You mention people in healthcare. I agree with your exception there, we certainly need them at all times. But what about others? What motives are okay? Is taking care of your family in the only jOB you could find in this terrible economy not an okay motive?



I agree with this and it was what I was trying to convey with my post. All Christians and church members, but especially ministers, should be sensitive to the needs of the community that they serve.

No, I did not say that, I did not mention motives. Why. For the ones I spoke of where making the choice while considering God and what it will do to their witness, their motive was to be sure nothing got between them and God, also to keep a good Christians witness, put God before money, put God before lust, before wants, especially their witness towards their children.


To many are sacrificing their children for money, without even considering God.


Living for God is about more than money, more than fulfilling our wants, its about more than having material possessions. That is if one loves truly God with all their soul, their might, their life.

The choices we make depends on our love for God, but I don't expect everyone to accept that or believe it. Mitch covered that pretty good.


How much would you sell out for? We know how much Judas sold out for. If the price is right, will we all sell out? Many already have.

[John81]

As Jerry has alluded to, many Christians go about their lives in their own power, using their own reasoning, rather than relying upon God.

Whether it be seeking a jOB or a school, a place to live, a church to attend, friends to have, or whatever, our first endeavor should be to take it to the Lord in prayer. Then await His answer. Keep praying and listening until God gives the answer.

Instead of this, folks will see a jOB which pays a lot but requires working hours that would prevent church attendance and much time with family and they see another jOB which would pay less but afford them the opportunity to attend church and have more time with family and rather than taking it to God in prayer, they jump at the jOB which pays more.

Many Christian families send the wife off into the workforce for the sake of some "extra" money, to the detriment of the children, church time and family as a whole.

Christians will search and search for that big money jOB while putting any consideration of church so far down the list they don't even think about until after they have the jOB.

We are to put Christ first in all things. We are to seek the will of God, not follow our own desires.

[JerryNumbers]

The American way seems to be trumping God's way, in fact most professing Christians thinks that the America way is God's way. I might add, the America way is to fulfill every lust possible, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, which is not of the Father, but of the world.

No doubt our past generations of children that is what they have been taught to do.

Few there be who have OBeyed this.

De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Yet most have taught thier children the ways of the world.

[John81]

The American way seems to be trumping God's way, in fact most professing Christians thinks that the America way is God's way. I might add, the America way is to fulfill every lust possible, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, which is not of the Father, but of the world.

No doubt our past generations of children that is what they have been taught to do.

Few there be who have OBeyed this.

De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Yet most have taught thier children the ways of the world.

You hit the nail on the head!

I know of so many churches that preach an Americanized Christianity rather than the Christianity of the Bible.

So many children of church going parents are influenced much more by the world than they are by the Bible. Their parents not only allow this but in most cases they promote this. Very sad.

[heartstrings]

For most, its all about choices made, and how much one's faith in God impacts the choices made. Some make choices never considering God, only self, and the amount of money one can make.

I know of many that consider God, Jesus, in every choice they made, and never would take a jOB that would take them away from church attendance, they felt OBeying God, not forsaking the assembling of them self together as some do, of grave importance, they be the ones who made sacrifices for their Lord, not the ones who chose jOBs that prevented them from attending church services.

Really now, the topic is 'Steadfastness,' the one who chooses Sunday work and skipping church, are not steadfast at all, they place importance on things that will separate them from Jesus and Jesus' Churches. The ones who are steadfast are the one who let nothing come between them and their church attendance.

No, those who are in church on Sunday, because they made the right choices for the right reason, they be the steadfast ones, the others, they prove God is of less importance to them than other things. Putting worldly thing in the position of more importance than church attendance is teaching your children that they be things of more importance to you than God, that is wrong.[/font]

Now, I will add, those who are working in the health care, taking care of people who really needs taking care of, hospital, nursing homes, and such, I think they will be excused, that is if they did so for the right reason, and yes, motive does mean a lot.

I having been called by God to preach the Gospel, I have to look at it from the Bibles perspective, and refuse to ease the conscience of those who CHOSE not to put God 1st as many do. Its not me not being compassionate, its their lack of compassion for the Lord their God when making choices.

My Dad had a jOB with WinnDixie for over 30 years. Dad was in his late 50's and getting closer to retirement and even though he had been a faithful employee for years, they began to put him on irregular work schedules which included sometimes working on Sundays. Dad was a meat cutter, which was the only trade he had ever known, so changing jOBs was not much of an option.

We had this know-it-all Sundayschool teacher who loved to amen real loud at everything the preacher said except when he got on divorce; then he got mad. Anyway he loved to ramble on about what was wrong with the world and talk about fantastic things like the Masons,the NWO conspiracy, the Catholic Church, the wickedness of Southern Gospel singers, angels cohabiting with humans, etc. So one Sunday Morning during on of his ramblings, he just spoke out and said my Dad wasn't right with God because he worked on Sunday...and Dad was sitting right there! Well, typically, Dad said nothing and I don't recall him ever mentioning it to me either. I was young and, going on the "rebuke not an elder" verse, I was shy about saying anything to the Sunday School teacher as well.

Dad was a quiet man. He was a Christian outside the churchhouse but didn't make any show about it at church, unlike the Sunday School teacher who loved to amen real loud at every opportunity. Dad witnessed to people, genuinely loved them and brought many to church. But to make a long story short, when my Dad died of cancer at age 59, our church was packed out. People were having to stand out in the foyer. When the Sunday School teacher, who had given EVERY pastor trouble for years, got "churched" by our last pastor, I don't recall anyone mourning his abscence. And to top it off; my Dad's children are both in church today. To my knowledge, his are not. So, I think it's important to be faithful to church. But how you treat your brothers and sisters in Christ and how you live outside the church is more important.