STEADFASTNESS

[irishman]

STEADFASTNESS
The love we have for the Lord can only be measured by what it takes to pull us away from Him! Some of us are too easily offended, like the seed that takes root, and grows quickly, then withers when the storm comes. What would it take to separate a good man from his family? Sometimes not much, but there ought to be nothing that could rend us from them. It is the same with our God. What can separate us from the love of God? (Rom. 8:38,39) nothing can, we ought to exercise that same love toward Him. A mans strength is measured by the amount of resistance he can withstand, a true measure of love is the same. If our marriage can’t take a little straining, then we don’t love our mates enough! It is easy to see this when it comes to our marital relationship, but why can’t we see it with Christ?

[JerryNumbers]

Yes, many times we will sell out pretty cheap.

[John81]

Considering such a large percentage of professing Christians can't even stand up to sporting events schedualed during church time it's not likely there is much strength to stand steadfast against much else.

[trc123]

Considering such a large percentage of professing Christians can't even stand up to sporting events schedualed during church time it's not likely there is much strength to stand steadfast against much else.

With today's DVR technology there is not reason can not do both without a conflict in scheduling.

[John81]

With today's DVR technology there is not reason can not do both without a conflict in scheduling.

That's very true with regards to pro-sports on TV and such yet it's a sad fact that many professing Christians believe they "have to" watch it live.

Unfortunately, the DVR doesn't effect the local sporting events, banquets and award ceremonies which an increasingly number of school districts are hosting on Sundays.

What's really sad is that, in this area at least, the majority of players are from professing Christian families. If even half of these would refuse to participate during church time the school districts would stop having them on Sunday. Instead, these professing Christians proclaim they "hate to" miss church but "for the sake of their children they have to" go to these.

Who is first in this case, God or someone/something else?

[trc123]

That's very true with regards to pro-sports on TV and such yet it's a sad fact that many professing Christians believe they "have to" watch it live.

Unfortunately, the DVR doesn't effect the local sporting events, banquets and award ceremonies which an increasingly number of school districts are hosting on Sundays.

What's really sad is that, in this area at least, the majority of players are from professing Christian families. If even half of these would refuse to participate during church time the school districts would stop having them on Sunday. Instead, these professing Christians proclaim they "hate to" miss church but "for the sake of their children they have to" go to these.

Who is first in this case, God or someone/something else?

While I believe you make valid OBservations and it is sad; I also don't see that the precise time that the "gathering of yourselves together" is a commanded time frame. There are many examples of churches who have chosen to have multiple weekly services in order to be more effective in ministry. Some would say this is just capitulating to the current culture; some would say this is just ministering to the realities of a change in current culture; and yet others would say this is a marvelous opportunity to have even more times for believers to gather for worship and ministry. Some churches may even go to a multiple service format due to the explosive growth they are experiencing and they need to have multiple services.

While I don't believe in change just for change's sake; I also don't oppose change just because it is change either.

[John81]

While I believe you make valid OBservations and it is sad; I also don't see that the precise time that the "gathering of yourselves together" is a commanded time frame. There are many examples of churches who have chosen to have multiple weekly services in order to be more effective in ministry. Some would say this is just capitulating to the current culture; some would say this is just ministering to the realities of a change in current culture; and yet others would say this is a marvelous opportunity to have even more times for believers to gather for worship and ministry. Some churches may even go to a multiple service format due to the explosive growth they are experiencing and they need to have multiple services.

While I don't believe in change just for change's sake; I also don't oppose change just because it is change either.

There is Scriptural reason to hold to gathering on Sunday's. No specific time is set forth in Scripture. Other times of the week might be optional, but it should also be noted that from Scripture we see Believers were gathering anywhere from often to daily. These Believers may not had had to consider high school football, sports banquets and basketball season, but no doubt they had to set aside other things in order to meet as often as they did.

The most important issue is "where are our priorities"? It's not so much that "our church holds services Wednesday nights", but rather a matter of knowing that, will you make attendance a priority or will you give sports, movies, bowling, or something else the priority.

When I was a child most things in the area were set to the church schedual. Sundays were pretty much specifically for church. Most places were closed on Sunday and no events were held on Sundays. For the most part this also applied to Wednesday nights.

Then, over the course of time, events started being held on Wednesdays. Christians were fairly silent on this and eventually Wednesday nights was just another night for all sorts of non-church events. Not surprisingly things eventually started being set for Sundays, and not during afternoons, but during mornings mostly, when most churches hold services.

All this to say that at one time Christians set certain time aside for church and the community at large understood this and accomodated this. As Christians lost their steadfastness the community at large saw this too and they took advantage of it. Now the choice is set forth, choose church or choose sports. What message are we sending to the world by the choices being made?

[trc123]

There is Scriptural reason to hold to gathering on Sunday's. No specific time is set forth in Scripture. Other times of the week might be optional, but it should also be noted that from Scripture we see Believers were gathering anywhere from often to daily. These Believers may not had had to consider high school football, sports banquets and basketball season, but no doubt they had to set aside other things in order to meet as often as they did.

The most important issue is "where are our priorities"? It's not so much that "our church holds services Wednesday nights", but rather a matter of knowing that, will you make attendance a priority or will you give sports, movies, bowling, or something else the priority.

When I was a child most things in the area were set to the church schedual. Sundays were pretty much specifically for church. Most places were closed on Sunday and no events were held on Sundays. For the most part this also applied to Wednesday nights.

Then, over the course of time, events started being held on Wednesdays. Christians were fairly silent on this and eventually Wednesday nights was just another night for all sorts of non-church events. Not surprisingly things eventually started being set for Sundays, and not during afternoons, but during mornings mostly, when most churches hold services.

All this to say that at one time Christians set certain time aside for church and the community at large understood this and accomodated this. As Christians lost their steadfastness the community at large saw this too and they took advantage of it. Now the choice is set forth, choose church or choose sports. What message are we sending to the world by the choices being made?

Agreed.

[chev1958]

Actually, the example in the Gospels and in Acts is daily preaching and teaching in the temple. Boy, would that change our society!

[John81]

Actually, the example in the Gospels and in Acts is daily preaching and teaching in the temple. Boy, would that change our society!

Exactly, which is why I think we seriously need to consider our priorities any time we think there is "too much church" or "there's not time for church and sports (or whatever)...and sports wins their time.

The early Believers were gathering daily yet today there are those professing Believers who say going to church twice a week just takes too much time, they have other things they need to do instead. Worse yet is the number of professing Believers who find it a burden to attend church even once a week!

Scripture says as the end draws ever nearer we (true Believers) should want to gather together more often. It seems the opposite is occuring among professing Believers today.

[JerryNumbers]

Lu 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Jesus set the example of what we ought to do, we can't follow Jesus unless we attend our church services on Sunday's.

Also, we cannot OBey verses 23 & 24 if we don't heed verse 25.

Yet many find many different excuses for not attending, but I don't believe they will be accepted by Jesus.

[CPR]

I agree, regular church attendance should be a priority. I'll also add that some churches are expanding worship times to meet the needs of the community where they are located. For example, in the neighborhood where I live, there are several large universities as well as many young professionals. Many churches, including my own, have a Sunday evening service just like the one or two morning services. The evening services are usually well attended by a mix of people in the community, members and visitors, and are great for younger people. I think this is a wonderful way to reach more people.

[chev1958]

Jesus set the example of what we ought to do, we can't follow Jesus unless we attend our church services on Sunday's.

Just a minor point - the sabbath in the verse you quoted would be our Saturday. There are many Christians who cannot attend services on Sundays, such as military and emergency services personnel as well as shut-ins. They might be able to attend services on other days, if churches held them on other days. Or we might have to take services to them (not the entire church, but conduct a service where they are). To say those folks can't follow Jesus because they can't attend Sunday services is a bit strong, don't you think?

The New Testament doesn't command a particular day of worship. Because the tomb was found empty on "the first day of the week," Christians hold corporate worship services on Sundays to honor Christ's resurrection. I wholeheartedly agree with that. But we shouldn't restrict our formal worship to just Sundays, if some of our fellow Christians can't join us.

[trc123]

Just a minor point - the sabbath in the verse you quoted would be our Saturday. There are many Christians who cannot attend services on Sundays, such as military and emergency services personnel as well as shut-ins. They might be able to attend services on other days, if churches held them on other days. Or we might have to take services to them (not the entire church, but conduct a service where they are). To say those folks can't follow Jesus because they can't attend Sunday services is a bit strong, don't you think?

The New Testament doesn't command a particular day of worship. Because the tomb was found empty on "the first day of the week," Christians hold corporate worship services on Sundays to honor Christ's resurrection. I wholeheartedly agree with that. But we shouldn't restrict our formal worship to just Sundays, if some of our fellow Christians can't join us.

I totally agree! Thank you for articulating what is actually Scriptural and not just traditional or cultural.

[JerryNumbers]

No, we ought not restrict our worship of God to only Sunday, we ought to worship God every day of every week, them on Sunday we ought to attend Church. And if we keep getting stuck in a mud hole and cannot get to church, we ought to fix the mud hole.

Of course, in that day, the days of the early churches, many found excuses not to attend Sunday worship, just as they do today, that is why God saw fit to have Paul write, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;"

But again, we do not attend church services because we have to, only because we love Jesus.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And of course, there be some who can't, yet many excuses given for not attending Sunday Church services are only excuses that will not hold a single drop of water. And I will let everyone figure that out by their self.