Questioning anothers Salvation

[John81]

I've been thinking about some of the ways Christians respond to differing views, thoughts and beliefs and the following quote from CPR reminded me so I though I would start a topic on this.

*I notice that Christians sometimes tend to think, "If you don't agree with me, then you must not be a Christian." We need to be very careful because more often than not this is not Biblical, is unnecessarily divisive and drives people away from Christ.* (Credit to CPR)

Why does this seem to be becoming the default reaction/reply among many Christians today?

Is this a dangerous trend? Do we risk offending God?

On what grounds does Scripture say we may determine whether one is a Christian or not?

[ThomasCooper]

Scripture demands that we judge others. How do we judge others? Scripturally, of course.

There is no such thing as "agreeing" or "disagreeing" with any person. That's liberalism. One either agrees with the scripture, in which case he's a Christian, or disagrees with the scripture, in which case he's a satanist.

[John81]

Scripture demands that we judge others. How do we judge others? Scripturally, of course.

There is no such thing as "agreeing" or "disagreeing" with any person. That's liberalism. One either agrees with the scripture, in which case he's a Christian, or disagrees with the scripture, in which case he's a satanist.

Could you please post Scripture which supports this for the benefit of all?

[ThomasCooper]

Could you please post Scripture which supports this for the benefit of all?

Lev 19:15 tells us to judge. Matt 12:30 clearly insinuates that rejectors are satanists. There are many other scriptures to support this, but these are two come to mind.

[amblivion]

When it comes to judging salvation, I am very careful because it is not my place to judge a person's salvation. Only Jesus will be sitting on the White Throne judgment. There are people who OBviously aren't saved. Those are the people who claim to have never put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone. I can OBviously tell someone is not saved if I have asked them if they put their trust in Jesus Christ and their answer is no. These are the people I have no prOBlem calling lost.

Now on the other hand there are other people who claim to have put their trust in Jesus Christ but are not living it. These are the people I do not call Christians, but I believe can be saved. A Christian is someone who is actively following Christ. A saved person is someone who has put their faith in Jesus Christ. I may wonder if the wayward person is really saved, but I can not know whether they truely are or not, only God knows. If I suspect someone is not saved, I may ask them questions to find out a little more. I might ask what their testimony is or find out what they believe the Gospel message is. The only time I can truely know if someone is not saved is if they believe in the wrong gospel.

I do have a quesiton for you Thomas. If I disagree with Scripture unknowingly, does that make me a satanist? I am curious as to what doctrines you believe makes a person a satanist.

[ThomasCooper]

I do have a quesiton for you Thomas. If I disagree with Scripture unknowingly, does that make me a satanist? I am curious as to what doctrines you believe makes a person a satanist.

In teaching us to judge Bible also demands action. Romans 16:17-18 give us a good command in this regard:

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

OBviously, the true believers have a responsibility to rebuke those who deviate from the sound doctrine. Lev 19:17 teaches us proper expression of Christian love in this regard: "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."

However, if you disagree with the scripture unknowingly, I would question your faith in the Lord.

[CPR]

I've been thinking about some of the ways Christians respond to differing views, thoughts and beliefs and the following quote from CPR reminded me so I though I would start a topic on this.

*I notice that Christians sometimes tend to think, "If you don't agree with me, then you must not be a Christian." We need to be very careful because more often than not this is not Biblical, is unnecessarily divisive and drives people away from Christ.* (Credit to CPR)

Why does this seem to be becoming the default reaction/reply among many Christians today?

Is this a dangerous trend? Do we risk offending God?

On what grounds does Scripture say we may determine whether one is a Christian or not?

Hey, I inspired a thread!

The Bible says that we are saved by grace through faith. If we are unsure of someone's faith, before we start to point fingers, I think the best thing to do is start a dialogue. I don't think many Christians have a prOBlem discussing what they believe with other Christians. It's one thing to point out incorrect beliefs, but it's quite another thing to do it in a hostile manner and label someone a "satanist", etc. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

We will always disagree on things that are matters of interpretation. Some Christians believe it is fine to have a drink, others think it is best to abstain. Some prefer church services that are formal and more ritualistic, others do not. These things have nothing to do with salvation, they are merely preferences.

[Annie]

If I "judged" others on Thomas's basis (total agreement on all things Scriptural), then I'd have to come to the conclusion that I'm the only person in the world who is saved. (And each of you, in your own minds, would come to the same conclusion about yourselves.) Glad we've gotten this settled!

[amblivion]

Well, I am right don't you know it? I am always right!!

[John81]

If I "judged" others on Thomas's basis (total agreement on all things Scriptural), then I'd have to come to the conclusion that I'm the only person in the world who is saved. (And each of you, in your own minds, would come to the same conclusion about yourselves.) Glad we've gotten this settled!

To an extent this is what we are seeing a great deal of. Naturally a person believes their view is correct or they wouldn't hold to it. However, with so many differing views about a variety of things everyone can't be right and everyone else wrong at the same time.

There also seems to be an unwillingness among many to accept the fact that everyone isn't at the same maturity level in Chirst. We all grow at different rates. Even in our own lives, especially those of us who have been in Christ for many years, we should be able to look back and see how we have grown over the years. What we believe on some issues today is likely different than some of what we once believed.

Some will proclaim if you are "Arminian" or "Calvinist" or Presbyterian or non-denominational that you are not a Christian (Just a few examples, there are many more).

What does Scripture say is the proof of our salvation? How can we and others "see" this proof?

[Bro K]

We all have OUR checklist as to what fellow christians should be (how they act, talk, dress, pray, etc etc). PrOBlems arise when (1): OUR checklist is not in tune with God's checklist (Bible) and (2): we opening condemn others through a "holier than thou" attitude. What creates more friction within the Family is not what is said, but how it is said. What creates most friction without the Family is not what is said, but how it is said. I try to treat a lost person with the same respect as I would want to be treated with. Ever wonder why its so hard to get a lost person to come to church!!!!!!!!

[amblivion]

To an extent this is what we are seeing a great deal of. Naturally a person believes their view is correct or they wouldn't hold to it. However, with so many differing views about a variety of things everyone can't be right and everyone else wrong at the same time.

There also seems to be an unwillingness among many to accept the fact that everyone isn't at the same maturity level in Chirst. We all grow at different rates. Even in our own lives, especially those of us who have been in Christ for many years, we should be able to look back and see how we have grown over the years. What we believe on some issues today is likely different than some of what we once believed.

Some will proclaim if you are "Arminian" or "Calvinist" or Presbyterian or non-denominational that you are not a Christian (Just a few examples, there are many more).

What does Scripture say is the proof of our salvation? How can we and others "see" this proof?

Matthew 7:15-23

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


1 John 2:1-6
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

James 2:17-22

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

All these verses show that works is an evidence of salvation. When someone is putting forth good fruit, I have absolutely no reason to doubt their salvation. It is when someone is putting forth bad fruit that I may wonder if they are saved or not. Since eternal security is true, I can not know for sure if someone has truely come to Christ even if they are living in sin.

2 Peter 2:1-3

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


In these verses what are damnable heresies? I believe them to be another gospel. Edited July 29, 2010 by amblivion

[HappyChristian]

If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment

John 7:23,24

Yes, we are to judge. In fact, we all judge every day. Decisions that are made are based on judgments - from what to eat and why, what to wear and why, what to say and why, to what we believe about others and why. BUT!!!!

When we pridefully proclaim that someone is not saved because they aren't doing what WE think they should (even when we try to force scripture to fit our pet beliefs), then WE are the ones in sin. There is no righteousness in OBnoxiousness. There is no righteousness in spiritual snOBbery, which can result very quickly when we think we have all the answers.

Yes, we do have the Bible, and we do have the Holy Spirit. And they do guide us. But we are also human, and tend to think things in human ways (remember, God Himself told us our thoughts are not His, nor our ways His...). If we never made mistakes (or sinned - sometimes the mistake comes from lack of knowledge due to either our newness in Christ or our wrongfully dividing the Word of God), then God wouldn't have put 1 John 1:7 in the Bible. Nor would He have told us that "ye that are spiritual, restore such an one..." That was written to the Christians at Galatia...so that means, there were some Christians that were not likely spiritual enough to help someone who has sinned...oops. Maybe that sinner wasn't saved? Nah - read the whole verse:

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Several things in that verse:
1. It's written to Christians (brethren....and it's not just addressing men there)
2. It's adjuring those who are spiritual
3. It's speaking of restoration, so the one caught in a fault (read:sin) is saved, just not right with the Lord.
4. It adjures the spirit of meekness - the opposite of the prideful attitude that we know all...
5. It warns: the prideful person who seeks to restore someone could quite possibly be tempted in that sin as well.

The principles in that verse hold well even when we are dealing with those who are truly lost. No one who is lost is in the least bit interested in a Saviour who has snOBs as disciples. No one who is backslidden is interested in returning to the fold if a snOB is the returner.

Judge righteous judgment. Can't be done when we don't have the spirit of meekness and we don't divide the Word of God rightly.

That same spirit of meekness needs to be present when we are "judging" another person's salvation or lack thereof. Simple disagreement is not a basis for assuming someone is not saved: unless the person with whom we are disagreeing claims salvation in any other way other than through the shed blood of Christ.

[John81]

Good posts Amblivion and LuAnne!

Our basis for judgeing our own or anothers salvation is whether or not we hold to the Gospel (trusting in Christ alone we are saved by grace through faith) and the fruit we bear.

Why is it then that some are quick to declare a professing Christian who affirms the Gospel and is bearing good fruit to not be a Christian because they attend a Methodist church or call themselves (or are perceived to be) a Calvinist, or because of how they dress (just three examples), etc?

Are such declarations Scriptural or could they be an afront to God? Is declaring that a "Calvinist" is serving a "little g god" an attack upon God if that "Calvinist" is a true believer (same for all the other areas this applies)?

Could it be we are stepping on dangerous ground by declaring brothers and sisters in Christ to be non-Christians? To be declaring they serve a false "god" when they have been born again in Christ?

[HappyChristian]

Good posts Amblivion and LuAnne!

Our basis for judgeing our own or anothers salvation is whether or not we hold to the Gospel (trusting in Christ alone we are saved by grace through faith) and the fruit we bear.

Why is it then that some are quick to declare a professing Christian who affirms the Gospel and is bearing good fruit to not be a Christian because they attend a Methodist church or call themselves (or are perceived to be) a Calvinist, or because of how they dress (just three examples), etc?

Are such declarations Scriptural or could they be an afront to God? Is declaring that a "Calvinist" is serving a "little g god" an attack upon God if that "Calvinist" is a true believer (same for all the other areas this applies)?

Could it be we are stepping on dangerous ground by declaring brothers and sisters in Christ to be non-Christians? To be declaring they serve a false "god" when they have been born again in Christ?

God tells us in His Word that man looks on the outward appearance. I don't necessarily think this is an indictment so much as a statement of fact. And so our apprearances (whether it be dress or church attendance) do send a message. So, it's important that it is Biblical.

However, to declare someone lost on the basis of an outward manifestation (like dress, church attendance) is a leap that shouldn't be made. It is something, again, that people do. And so it is important for each of us to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.