Youth Pastors

[OFIB Preacher]

No one is lumping everything wrong, only those things which are wrong, all we've spoken about is contained and taught within the pages of that old Black Book, that is where we got it from, and its in there for anyone who wants to dig for it and to follow God's truths.

There is only one way, 'Trust and OBey,'

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Sorry, but many want to do things there way, of which many of them go outside of the local church. It could be some of them are to lazy to study and dig into that old Black Book, either that are they just don't care.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Its true, to follow Jesus, we must do things God's way, if we don't we only fool our self, we are not following Jesus. And yes, thanks only to grace, yet we have not the right to abuse that grace offered and not to 'trust and OBey.'

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Sad, some people just cannot deny self, instead they only follow Jesus only from afar, and like Peter did, they to will run into troubles.

I will add, I've notice one thing that is very common, new converts that feel they know God's way without digging into that old Black Book, and are just follow what they hear the teacher, preacher, or pastor teach. I've seen several of these kind surrender to the ministry and put behind the pulpit as pastor, and or be ordained as a deacon.

AMEN, 100 percent!!!

[OFIB Preacher]

Talking about the one attracting the most attention.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It seems for sure, outside of the strait narrow gate there be few gathered around it, there is not much action taking place, yet at the broad wide gate there be lots of activities going on around it, many people gathered around to see what's its all about.

A person has to be very careful about just following the crowd, for the crowd will prOBably not be denying self and following Jesus.

You're exactly right!
AMEN!

[HappyChristian]

John, come visit our jr. church and you'll find one that's doing it right! We have a large bus ministry, and many children come without their parents. I realize that there are prOBably some on here that are against the bus ministry - after all, the Bible doesn't mention it any more than it does youth pastors, assistant pastors and jr. church. But the Bible does tell us to suffer the little children to come unto Him. And so we do...

Our jr. church is in two parts, actually. Kids whose parents are members go to jr. church until they are 4. Once they hit kindergarten, they come to the a.m. services (they are in the evening services when they turn 3). Kids who ride the bus go to jr. church through grade 6. And they have absolutely wonderful teachers. Several of the men on our pastoral staff teach the classes, as well as some of the deacons. And they preach. And it isn't watered down. But it is geared to their needs. When they hit 7th grade, they start coming to the main service.

In our church, a nursery is necessary. We have a GREAT number of wee ones at any given time...some more than others, but always a large amount. If a church body doesn't want a nursery, so be it. But the Bible doesn't direct exactly how everything is to go - no matter what anyone says about the Bible not being silent on some things - and so, the pastor and the church family make those decisions. (BTW - our nursery isn't just a time to play. Once they hit the one year old nursery, there is Bible time, song and memory verse time...in every service...and no-one just goes to work in the nursery. They are assigned. No teens work in the nursery during any regular church service)

When we get to the point where we disdain something that an independent local church is doing because "most" churches don't do it "right," we are lifting ourselves up and asserting that I know what's best for every single church, and there is no room for difference. That smacks of pride, to me...and, like BroMatt mentioned: it turns off those who don't know Christ, and even some babes in Christ will turn away. Sad.

[Anon]

HC if it makes them feel good to sit around criticizing other churches and believing that their church is the only one doing it right, just let them. haha. "I am of Paul; I am of Apollos; I am of Christ....."

[trc123]

HC if it makes them feel good to sit around criticizing other churches and believing that their church is the only one doing it right, just let them. haha. "I am of Paul; I am of Apollos; I am of Christ....."

Most generally, those types of people never get it. To try and persuade them is an exercise in futility, might as well just ignore them.

[HappyChristian]

Most generally, those types of people never get it. To try and persuade them is an exercise in futility, might as well just ignore them.

True posts, both of you. I just can't let go sometimes...

[PreacherE]

John, come visit our jr. church and you'll find one that's doing it right! We have a large bus ministry, and many children come without their parents. I realize that there are prOBably some on here that are against the bus ministry - after all, the Bible doesn't mention it any more than it does youth pastors, assistant pastors and jr. church. But the Bible does tell us to suffer the little children to come unto Him. And so we do...

Our jr. church is in two parts, actually. Kids whose parents are members go to jr. church until they are 4. Once they hit kindergarten, they come to the a.m. services (they are in the evening services when they turn 3). Kids who ride the bus go to jr. church through grade 6. And they have absolutely wonderful teachers. Several of the men on our pastoral staff teach the classes, as well as some of the deacons. And they preach. And it isn't watered down. But it is geared to their needs. When they hit 7th grade, they start coming to the main service.

In our church, a nursery is necessary. We have a GREAT number of wee ones at any given time...some more than others, but always a large amount. If a church body doesn't want a nursery, so be it. But the Bible doesn't direct exactly how everything is to go - no matter what anyone says about the Bible not being silent on some things - and so, the pastor and the church family make those decisions. (BTW - our nursery isn't just a time to play. Once they hit the one year old nursery, there is Bible time, song and memory verse time...in every service...and no-one just goes to work in the nursery. They are assigned. No teens work in the nursery during any regular church service)

When we get to the point where we disdain something that an independent local church is doing because "most" churches don't do it "right," we are lifting ourselves up and asserting that I know what's best for every single church, and there is no room for difference. That smacks of pride, to me...and, like BroMatt mentioned: it turns off those who don't know Christ, and even some babes in Christ will turn away. Sad.

Ours is one that does it right as well!

[OFIB Preacher]

Ours is one that does it right as well!

Back when I worked in radio in NC, one day I was bragging on myself a little bit and this is what one of the preachers on the station told me.
"Pat yourself on the back and break your arm, in the process!"

[HappyChristian]

Back when I worked in radio in NC, one day I was bragging on myself a little bit and this is what one of the preachers on the station told me.
"Pat yourself on the back and break your arm, in the process!"

That's quite enough, Josh! No-one was bragging on themselves. Why is it okay for YOU to be uber negative about anything that YOU think is unscriptural (without giving one single verse), but someone can't be positive about something without you accusing them of bragging? Stop, now.

[John81]

John, come visit our jr. church and you'll find one that's doing it right! We have a large bus ministry, and many children come without their parents. I realize that there are prOBably some on here that are against the bus ministry - after all, the Bible doesn't mention it any more than it does youth pastors, assistant pastors and jr. church. But the Bible does tell us to suffer the little children to come unto Him. And so we do...

Our jr. church is in two parts, actually. Kids whose parents are members go to jr. church until they are 4. Once they hit kindergarten, they come to the a.m. services (they are in the evening services when they turn 3). Kids who ride the bus go to jr. church through grade 6. And they have absolutely wonderful teachers. Several of the men on our pastoral staff teach the classes, as well as some of the deacons. And they preach. And it isn't watered down. But it is geared to their needs. When they hit 7th grade, they start coming to the main service.

In our church, a nursery is necessary. We have a GREAT number of wee ones at any given time...some more than others, but always a large amount. If a church body doesn't want a nursery, so be it. But the Bible doesn't direct exactly how everything is to go - no matter what anyone says about the Bible not being silent on some things - and so, the pastor and the church family make those decisions. (BTW - our nursery isn't just a time to play. Once they hit the one year old nursery, there is Bible time, song and memory verse time...in every service...and no-one just goes to work in the nursery. They are assigned. No teens work in the nursery during any regular church service)

When we get to the point where we disdain something that an independent local church is doing because "most" churches don't do it "right," we are lifting ourselves up and asserting that I know what's best for every single church, and there is no room for difference. That smacks of pride, to me...and, like BroMatt mentioned: it turns off those who don't know Christ, and even some babes in Christ will turn away. Sad.

I'm not sure how I get lumped in with some who say all of this is wrong or that it shouldn't be done because most don't do it right since I never said any such thing. I even commended those who do such right and praised God for the childrens church which helped Suzy come to Christ.

Now on to your church...it sounds as if your church has developed a well thought out means of reaching the very young and in integrating them into the church at large while yet at a young age. This is good. It also sounds as if this program isn't about babysitting but rather the time is being redeemed for the glory of God with the intent of bringing children to salvation in Christ. Again, this is good. It's also good that thought and planning is put ito who works the nursery rather than simply staffing it with available teens. It sounds as if this would be something other churches could learn from.

One of the prOBlems today is that most churches are just becoming way to watered down and they are usually at their worst with regards to children. The children are taught a few Bible stories, typically without any real context or with any intent of using the stories to lead children to Christ. This often effects not only childrens church, but the Sunday school and youth group programs as well. Eventualy the rot generally makes it's way into the pulpit.

Whereas your church seeks to biblically educate children with the intent of pointing them to Christ and bringing them into the church family at a young age, most churches perpetuate the separation of children from adults, often even through high school. This is among the reasons why many teens, once they graduate high school, leave the church. They grew up in entertainment oriented childrens/youth programs and then suddenly they are expected to just sit and listen to a sermon. They've been trained to expect entertainment and "fun" so sitting in a pew is something they are not used to and seems so boring as compared to the rest of their lives.

As I've indicated previously, our church has a nursery. Some use the nursery, some bring their babies and toddlers to the services. We have childrens church during the school year but not during the summer months. Ours is much smaller than yours but set up with the intent to bring children to Christ and get them into the church at large. Our children and youth programs are Christ centered so they are much smaller than the nearby church which has an entertainment centered children/youth program.

My main point all along has been that church should be family friendly and Christ centered. Most churches today wrongly divide the family, helping to create and perpetuate "generation gaps" and many of these keep this division up throughout a childs life up to graduation from high school. Along with the prOBlem of divided families, many of these churches also over-emphasis childrens/youth programs above other aspects of the church. The rest of the church is expect to cater to and give way for the childrens/youth programs. These are the programs I'm against.

Programs designed to bring children to Christ and incorporate them into the church family at a young age sound like a blessing for many. Amen! The only thing I would be against in this area would be if parents were forced to put their children in them. I don't know how common this is but I've noticed some churches today do demand that children up to a certain age attend the nursery/childrens programs; this I don't agree with.

[HappyChristian]

I'm not sure how I get lumped in with some who say all of this is wrong or that it shouldn't be done because most don't do it right since I never said any such thing. I even commended those who do such right and praised God for the childrens church which helped Suzy come to Christ.

Now on to your church...it sounds as if your church has developed a well thought out means of reaching the very young and in integrating them into the church at large while yet at a young age. This is good. It also sounds as if this program isn't about babysitting but rather the time is being redeemed for the glory of God with the intent of bringing children to salvation in Christ. Again, this is good. It's also good that thought and planning is put ito who works the nursery rather than simply staffing it with available teens. It sounds as if this would be something other churches could learn from.

One of the prOBlems today is that most churches are just becoming way to watered down and they are usually at their worst with regards to children. The children are taught a few Bible stories, typically without any real context or with any intent of using the stories to lead children to Christ. This often effects not only childrens church, but the Sunday school and youth group programs as well. Eventualy the rot generally makes it's way into the pulpit.

Whereas your church seeks to biblically educate children with the intent of pointing them to Christ and bringing them into the church family at a young age, most churches perpetuate the separation of children from adults, often even through high school. This is among the reasons why many teens, once they graduate high school, leave the church. They grew up in entertainment oriented childrens/youth programs and then suddenly they are expected to just sit and listen to a sermon. They've been trained to expect entertainment and "fun" so sitting in a pew is something they are not used to and seems so boring as compared to the rest of their lives.

As I've indicated previously, our church has a nursery. Some use the nursery, some bring their babies and toddlers to the services. We have childrens church during the school year but not during the summer months. Ours is much smaller than yours but set up with the intent to bring children to Christ and get them into the church at large. Our children and youth programs are Christ centered so they are much smaller than the nearby church which has an entertainment centered children/youth program.

My main point all along has been that church should be family friendly and Christ centered. Most churches today wrongly divide the family, helping to create and perpetuate "generation gaps" and many of these keep this division up throughout a childs life up to graduation from high school. Along with the prOBlem of divided families, many of these churches also over-emphasis childrens/youth programs above other aspects of the church. The rest of the church is expect to cater to and give way for the childrens/youth programs. These are the programs I'm against.

Programs designed to bring children to Christ and incorporate them into the church family at a young age sound like a blessing for many. Amen! The only thing I would be against in this area would be if parents were forced to put their children in them. I don't know how common this is but I've noticed some churches today do demand that children up to a certain age attend the nursery/childrens programs; this I don't agree with.

My apologies, John - I wasn't lumping you in...I just mentioned your name re: jr.church because you had said the churches you visited didn't do jr. church right.

[John81]

My apologies, John - I wasn't lumping you in...I just mentioned your name re: jr.church because you had said the churches you visited didn't do jr. church right.

Thank you. I would that more churches did have programs like your church, my church, and PreacherE's church. I'm thankful at least three churches in this day are seeking to lead children to Christ! (For everyone else, yes, I know some other churches do to)

It's such a shame to see the vast majority of churches misleading children, separating families and leading children, youth and oftentimes even adults, away from Christ rather than towards Christ.

I'm very saddened by our local situation where one watered down church has established a very popular entertainment centered children and youth program that draws a far larger number of children/youth than the other local churches combined. Being in a small town in a very rural area I know many of the families involved and over the years I've seen so many in that church/youth program involved in drunkenness, premarital sex, many unmarried pregnancies, several youth shacking up and various aspects of rebellion.

Our church certainly isn't perfect but the track record of the youth coming out of our childrens/youth programs isn't like that other church at all.

Even so, people continually sing the praises of the watered down, entertainment centered churches childrens/youth programs and they are continually trying to talk folks into taking their children out of the "boring" children/youth programs and put them in that churches.

Certainly many of these parents are lost themselves, but some of them are indeed Christians. It's so sad to see them choosing entertainment over eternity with Christ and trying to get others to join them.

Praise God for those churches still in the "business" of winning young and old alike to Christ!

[PreacherE]

Thank you. I would that more churches did have programs like your church, my church, and PreacherE's church. I'm thankful at least three churches in this day are seeking to lead children to Christ! (For everyone else, yes, I know some other churches do to)

It's such a shame to see the vast majority of churches misleading children, separating families and leading children, youth and oftentimes even adults, away from Christ rather than towards Christ.

I'm very saddened by our local situation where one watered down church has established a very popular entertainment centered children and youth program that draws a far larger number of children/youth than the other local churches combined. Being in a small town in a very rural area I know many of the families involved and over the years I've seen so many in that church/youth program involved in drunkenness, premarital sex, many unmarried pregnancies, several youth shacking up and various aspects of rebellion.

Our church certainly isn't perfect but the track record of the youth coming out of our childrens/youth programs isn't like that other church at all.

Even so, people continually sing the praises of the watered down, entertainment centered churches childrens/youth programs and they are continually trying to talk folks into taking their children out of the "boring" children/youth programs and put them in that churches.

Certainly many of these parents are lost themselves, but some of them are indeed Christians. It's so sad to see them choosing entertainment over eternity with Christ and trying to get others to join them.

Praise God for those churches still in the "business" of winning young and old alike to Christ!

It's sad that this is true. Most parents are looking for a babysitter rather than a church which will teach their children the truth. Also, if the children learn the truth that means the parents might would have to change some things at home.

[John81]

It's sad that this is true. Most parents are looking for a babysitter rather than a church which will teach their children the truth. Also, if the children learn the truth that means the parents might would have to change some things at home.

That is so true! Many of the parents in this area look for anything to involve their kids in so they're not at home. Not only do they look to church activities, school and other things as free babysitters but they actually expect them to make up for their failure to parent. I heard a mother recently talking about how she can't wait until she can get her kids in preschool so THEY can teach her children how to share, sit still, play nice with others and mind. Wow! I thought teaching children such things were a parents jOB!

I've also noticed that if some children do pick up on something at church parents are often quick to say such is just for church or to otherwise minimize it. Can't have their children messing up their lives with that "church stuff"! Unfortunately, my sister fits into this category.

One of the fastest growing and largest churches in a nearby college town doesn't even have a pastor! The church is a satelite of an actual church on the far west side of the state. The "services" amount mostly to a lot of rockin' "worship music", followed by a satelite feed on a big screen in the sanctuary of the preacher as he preaches a short sermon to his congregation in the church in that other city.

Churches where children and youth can "have fun" seem to be all the rage and it's spreading more and more so that even adults want to have "fun" church. Of course, this mostly means worldly fun with a covering of Christianity. Lot's of rockin' praise and worship music, lots of skits and plays, lots of videos, lots of games...add just a little Jesus who was all about fun and love and apparently lots of rockin' music and it's the "Christianity" they are lookin' for.

[OFIB Preacher]

That's quite enough, Josh! No-one was bragging on themselves. Why is it okay for YOU to be uber negative about anything that YOU think is unscriptural (without giving one single verse), but someone can't be positive about something without you accusing them of bragging? Stop, now.

1 Tim. 2:11-15
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shal be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety.