R. C. Sproul Jr.

[Invicta]

My dad used to say "Many"  referred to the Jews, but I am not sure he was right.

[Invicta]

Lu 22:19  And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:24  And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Mt 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mr 14:24  And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

So you, doesn't mean his disciples, it means everybody?

And many doesn't mean many but  everybody?

We should believe all the scriptures, not pick and choose which ones we believe as does Heartstrings.

[No Nicolaitans]

Lu 22:19  And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:24  And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Mt 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mr 14:24  And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

So you, doesn't mean his disciples, it means everybody?

And many doesn't mean many but  everybody?

We should believe all the scriptures, not pick and choose which ones we believe as does Heartstrings.

Pick and choose?

 

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

 

[Invicta]

Pick and choose?

 

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

 

Touché

[John81]

Thank you to those who have attempted to address my question above.

[No Nicolaitans]

Thank you to those who have attempted to address my question above.

John, I'll be the first to admit that there are still things in the Bible that are confusing and hard to be understood. Though I don't subscribe to Calvinism, and though I don't see a dilemma, I can see the possible dilemma when one considers "many" vs. "all". 

We often forget that our beloved Bible was written hundreds of years ago. What did "many" mean when the King James was written? "Many" isn't listed in the 1604 dictionary that I sometimes consult; the closest to the date of the King James that I could find was from 1768. In it, the adjective "many" is defined as...

Constituting a great number; numerous. Marking number indefinite.

Also, in the same dictionary, the adjective "all" is defined as...

The whole number; every one. The whole quantity; every part.

So, as a "marking number", the word "many" is indefinite. Wouldn't this indefinite number be "all"?

Now, look at our modern-day definition of "many"...

Constituting a great number; numerous. Noting each one of a large number (usually followed by a or an).

Very similar, but see what has been left off? "Marking number indefinite" is now gone...in 200+ years, an important part of its definition has disappeared and has been replaced with a definition that makes it definitive rather than indefinite.

Who did Christ die for? He died for indefinite many...he died for all. 

 

[John81]

John, I'll be the first to admit that there are still things in the Bible that are confusing and hard to be understood. Though I don't subscribe to Calvinism, and though I don't see a dilemma, I can see the possible dilemma when one considers "many" vs. "all". 

We often forget that our beloved Bible was written hundreds of years ago. What did "many" mean when the King James was written? "Many" isn't listed in the 1604 dictionary that I sometimes consult; the closest to the date of the King James that I could find was from 1768. In it, the adjective "many" is defined as...

Constituting a great number; numerous. Marking number indefinite.

Also, in the same dictionary, the adjective "all" is defined as...

The whole number; every one. The whole quantity; every part.

So, as a "marking number", the word "many" is indefinite. Wouldn't this indefinite number be "all"?

Now, look at our modern-day definition of "many"...

Constituting a great number; numerous. Noting each one of a large number (usually followed by a or an).

Very similar, but see what has been left off? "Marking number indefinite" is now gone...in 200+ years, an important part of its definition has disappeared and has been replaced with a definition that makes it definitive rather than indefinite.

Who did Christ die for? He died for indefinite many...he died for all. 

 

Now my brains itchy!

[No Nicolaitans]

Now my brains itchy!

Take some Benadryl. 

[heartstrings]

....or brain-a-dryl?

[Leonard Sylvia]

Pick and choose?

 

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

 

you have to remember who Paul is writing to in Timothy. The context of Timothy is Paul writing to his protege, so in essence he is writing to believers. So "all" would make more sense that all would mean believers here.

[No Nicolaitans]

you have to remember who Paul is writing to in Timothy. The context of Timothy is Paul writing to his protege, so in essence he is writing to believers. So "all" would make more sense that all would mean believers here.

The previous verses of 1 Timothy 2 makes it clear that Paul isn't referring to believers only.

[heartstrings]

1 Timothy 2King James Version (KJV) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Looks pretty plain to me: "all" means all. Why do the Calvinists or "reformed" keep insisting otherwise? I don't understand that.

[Invicta]

1 Timothy 2King James Version (KJV) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Looks pretty plain to me: "all" means all. Why do the Calvinists or "reformed" keep insisting otherwise? I don't understand that.

 13  Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14  And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15  For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 

Why did Jesus speak in parables so they shouldn't believe and be converted?

[Leonard Sylvia]

The previous verses of 1 Timothy 2 makes it clear that Paul isn't referring to believers only.

so you believe in Universalism then?

i don't think you do. "All" that Paul is referring to is the elect that God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Refer to Romans 9 for reference.

when you are leaving on a trip and you ask your family," are we all buckled in?" You are not asking if the whole world is buckled, but only your family to whom you are speaking 

Edited July 29, 2015 by Leonard Sylvia
Fix

[No Nicolaitans]

so you believe in Universalism then?

i don't think you do. "All" that Paul is referring to is the elect that God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Refer to Romans 9 for reference.

when you are leaving on a trip and you ask your family," are we all buckled in?" You are not asking if the whole world is buckled, but only your family to whom you are speaking 

I could answer you here Leonard, but to be honest...I'm tired of the constant back-and-forth here on Online Baptist about Calvinism. Sometimes, it subsides for a while, but it doesn't take long before it rears its head again. Same arguments, same responses, same results...it never ends. I've had my fill.