Can someone be saved by reading the NIV?

[chev1958]

[quote]
Get that railroad tie outta' your eye socket there Holmes.
[/quote]

Hey, watch it! I wasn't in this argument yet :lol:

Pastor Mitch [u]Holmes[/u]

[Guest Guest]

Sorry 'bout that! I was, once again, being utterly sarcastic, maybe even a little too much :( .

[Guest Guest]

[quote="dwayner79"]
I am not defending the ability to have more then one wife. I was only saying that putting your spouse above ministry is the proper thing to do.

The one verse quoted twice above are talkig about the kingdom... i.e. salvation. This was near and dear to the people of that time as they would litterly give up their family after proclaiming Christ. Funerals and the whole bit. This is not talking about serving God. This is why Paul says if the unbelieving wife leaves, let her go. But a saved man and woman are ultimately responsible to God for their marriage before their ministry. This is why the distinction is made if a man cannot lead his house, how will he lead the church. This is because the home is more important then the church. The home comes first. All through the NT passages dealing with husband and wife role, church leadership, etc. the theme is home first.

We will have to disagree on this one.
[/quote]


I inserted into my reply the comment that the doctrinal application of those Scriptures that I quoted was literal, for, like you said, Salvation itself. Now, today, we take only a Spiritual application, such as NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that we are to abandon the Ministry simply because the wife is a stinking rebel and refuses to submit to the husband, and ultimately, God. Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." No that I have personally embarked on a jourley that will eventually lead me to the mission field, I WILL NOT REPENT, regardless of what happens. Of course, if God shuts the door loud enough for me to get the picture, I won't go. But barring God's changes, I will end up in South America, and if I have a wife (hypothetical, of course) that refuses to go, she will stay behind. Find me a verse that clearly says otherwise, and I will change my mind. But until then, I hold that nothing in the whole world comes before God and His calling.

[pneu-engine]

PHEEEEEWWWWWWW, All that I can say is that I would surely pity your wife. :( :( :( :( :(

No good woman deserves to be treated like that. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

We had a really good evangelist come to our church that many on this board may know, [b]Chuck Cofty,[/b] who was a former (high ranking) USMC officer, who said that men who treat their wives like that [b]are nothing but pigs.[/b] :shock:

[Jerry]

MC, wouldn't it be prudent to make sure your potential wife shared your calling first before getting married - if you already know where you believe God wants you to go? I truly believe if both husband and wife (ie. when they are already married - or a couple that are seeking to be married) are seeking God's will, that God will guide them together. That means you would both be directed to the same place. In the case of courting, sometimes this comes into play as you court - you both may feel that God was individually leading you to different places, but as you seek the will of the Lord together, you find that He may have given you each a burden and concern for one place (ie. some place you pour more prayer into, follow up more on the missionaries and what is happening with that country, but it may not be where God is actually stating He wants you to live - or at least not where He wants you to be for the course of your life, maybe only short term) - but is actually leading you both to somewhere else where He is opening the door.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Hey I know Chuck Cofty. :D


At our church in NC, whenever he came for a week of meetings, he and our pastor would see who could praise their wife the most throughout the week. He certainly cherishes his wife!

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

When a man follows the teaching and example of Peter Ruckman instead of Paul, they are bound to see their wives as little more than excess baggage - to be left at home while they go off to a mission field. But it is probably much more convenient to just divorce them until you can find a woman that will "obey" them. Of course, it may take a few girls - but they will eventually get there.

That is the high cost of following men and looking to please the Doc.

[pneu-engine]

BBB wrote:::[quote]
When a man follows the teaching and example of Peter Ruckman instead of Paul, they are bound to see their wives as little more than excess baggage - to be left at home while they go off to a mission field. But it is probably much more convenient to just divorce them until you can find a woman that will "obey" them. Of course, it may take a few girls - but they will eventually get there.

That is the high cost of following men and looking to please the Doc.
[/quote]

Very sad,too. :( :( :(

Bakers-6 wrote:::
[quote]
Hey I know Chuck Cofty.


At our church in NC, whenever he came for a week of meetings, he and our pastor would see who could praise their wife the most throughout the week. He certainly cherishes his wife!
[/quote]

He did that very same thing at our church and it was one of the many things that endeared him to us so much. :D :D :D

[dwayner79]

[quote="MC1171611"]
Find me a verse that clearly says otherwise, and I will change my mind. But until then, I hold that nothing in the whole world comes before God and His calling.
[/quote]

"Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. Finally, [be ye] all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, [be] pitiful, [be] courteous:"

Dwell with your wives according to knowledge means learn your wife and live with her giving honour to her out of that knowledge. We have a clear directive to love, pity, be compassionate and courteous to our wives. Is this the man who tells his wife we are going to Africa wether you like it or not. Every time we as men take advantage of our "Chief Tiebreaker" right, we are not living with out wives in an understanding way. We are not loving, compassionate hunsbands. We are to shepherd our families. If I felt called to a certain ministry and my wife (who loves God and has a heart for Him) in not sure, then I would pray hard on my knees that he would show me where I was wrong. I trust my wife's judgment. She has the very same Holy Spirit I have and she is much stronger in areas like discernment then I am. God placed her in my life for a reason, to be a helpmate. If after praying and I am fully convinced that I am to go here, or do this, then I would shift my prayer to begging God to put the same burden of my wifes heart. There is nothing more important then the unity between a husband and a wife. The amazing thing is, and this has happened for us with a few serious issues, that after praying, my wife came around. She was seeking the Lord and he guided her into the same conclusion I had. Many more times, I find I was going on my own power and even other times, I did it anyway, and ended up taking much more time trying to tear down the walls I had built as a result.


IMHO, the biblical directives are to God, Family (wife, then children), Ministry, Occupation in that order.

[pneu-engine]

[quote]
If I felt called to a certain ministry and my wife (who loves God and has a heart for Him) in not sure, then I would pray hard on my knees that he would show me where I was wrong. I trust my wife's judgment. She has the very same Holy Spirit I have and she is much stronger in areas like discernment then I am. God placed her in my life for a reason, to be a help[b]meet[/b].
[/quote]

I agree DW. :)

Way, way back about three years ago or so, our church started a new church about half-way from us to our home church. Since the first word in Local Church is "Local", I just thought it a logical choice to go and help this new work. However, instead of just pulling up stakes and going to this new church, I asked my wife and daughter what the Holy Spirit was telling them. They said they would really prefer to stay put, as the H.S. didn't give them the go-ahead. That was enough for me. We stayed put. Here it is three years later, and I'm so glad that I listened to them. Yea verily, my wife is truly the most wonderful [b]helpmeet[/b] (i.e.[b] help-sufficient[/b]) for me. :D

[Tim]

:goodpost: Dwayne

[Bakershalfdozen]

dwayner79 wrote:

[quote]
If I felt called to a certain ministry and my wife (who loves God and has a heart for Him) in not sure, then I would pray hard on my knees that he would show me where I was wrong. I trust my wife's judgment. She has the very same Holy Spirit I have and she is much stronger in areas like discernment then I am. God placed her in my life for a reason, to be a helpmate. If after praying and I am fully convinced that I am to go here, or do this, then I would shift my prayer to begging God to put the same burden of my wifes heart. There is nothing more important then the unity between a husband and a wife. The amazing thing is, and this has happened for us with a few serious issues, that after praying, my wife came around. She was seeking the Lord and he guided her into the same conclusion I had.
[/quote]


Excellent post! In every major area of my husband's and my life together, we were both impressed as to the Lord's leading. This has happened over and over again without fail. I can't tell you how many times one of us has brought up a subject and the other one says, "I have been thinking about that too!" or "I was just thinking the exact same thing!" We believe that man and wife are to be one flesh in every aspect of their lives.

[Kubel]

If you are being called to the field but your wife is not, there is something wrong. It may be an excuse to postpone your work until your wife is willing to go, but it's absolutely no excuse to get divorced. When someone gets married, you become one with your wife by God.

If Ruckman was being called to be a Pastor, and his wife would not submit- he shouldn't have got a divorce. After the divorse he also shouldn't have remarried. But he did. He claims there's nothing wrong with divorce as long as you are only maried to one person at a time, but this is in clear contrary to the writings and commandments of Jesus and Paul.

What I don't understand is why a man with such fire for defending the KJV would not live by the truths and teachings in it. I also don't understand why people would choose Ruckman to be a leader for a particular doctrine when there are others that live a cleaner testimony. True, he has been forgiven by God and he can be forgiven by man- but he has lost the requirements for being a pastor.

Another thing I dont understand is if you are truely after the spreading of the truth, why do you copyright and enforce copyrights for the purpose of getting money (not just to protect and preserve your work)? This is the same tactic used by the NIV. It's not right.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Bro Kubel, Do you know Dr Ruckman personally? Have you ever discussed these issues with him?

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

[quote="My Saviour Leads Me"]
Bro Kubel, Do you know Dr Ruckman personally? Have you ever discussed these issues with him?
[/quote]

I haven't personally discussed with the Pope the errors of Rome - do you think I should repent and embrace Catholicism?

Do you think if Pope Ruckman sees me, I'll be convinced that the Bible is wrong and he is right? Was he ex cathedra also?