Origins of the Baptist Church

[ltl]

After looking at a few recent posts, I've got an interesting poll for y'all - what do you think of the origins of the BAPTIST church?

1) Unbroken Succession - The Baptist church was found by Jesus Christ in the NT times, and from then to now, there has always been an unbroken succession of Baptist churches that are related to each other not just by doctrine, but by contact as well. In other words, these churches have established relationships with each other all the time.
This view is held by a group of Baptists known as "Baptist briders".

2) Unbroken Heritage - The Baptist church was found by Jesus Christ in the NT times, and from then to now, there has always been an unbroken succession of Baptist churches that go under different names, have nothing to do with each other, but all share the same doctrine. The history of the Baptist church can be traced back to the times of the Waldernesians, Albigeneses and so on.
This is a view held by many IFBs, especially those who follow J.M. Carroll's "Trail of Blood" book.

3) Untraceable History - The Baptist church was found by Jesus Christ in the NT times, and from then to now, there has always been an unbroken succession of Baptist churches that go under different names, have nothing to do with each other, but all share the same doctrine. However, the history of the Baptist church can only be traced back to the Englishman, John Smyth, who was an early Baptist preacher.
This is a view held by many Baptists as well, in particular mainline and Reformed ones, who reject J.M. Carroll's "Trail of Blood" book.

4) Reformation Separatists - The Baptist church was found in the Reformation era by a Englishman named John Smyth, who broke away from the Anglican church after refusing to believe in infant baptism etc. Similar groups like Mennonites also sprang up at the same time. There is no evidence of any Baptist churches before the Reformation era.
This view is held by the majority of the secular world, as well as most of professing Christendom, except within the Baptists and some Reformed groups.

I adhere to #2.

[ltl]

Erm... 20+ views... 0 replies? :?

[Alen]

I don't think any church at anytime held 'perfect doctrine' Nor do I believe any church has held the exact same beliefs Baptists do, similar maybe, but not exactly the same.

[JerryNumbers]

Unbroken Succession, Unbroken Heritage, strange to me, for both groups to use J. M. Carroll's book to prove their point. But what his book proves is that there has always been a succession of those Churches that was started by Jesus when He started His earthly ministry.

But even stranger than that it seems that both mean nearly the same thing.

But Jesus told us this.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matt 16:18 (KJV)

So if any time in history of Jesus Churches it ceased to exist, no succession of them left on this earth, them that would prove that Jesus lied to us, which He did not. Why, because they have always been a succession of His Churches since He started His Church just as He claims in the Bible and J. M. Carroll's book is one of the proofs of this.

Of course its hard to prove. Why? Because the RCC did everything they could to stamp out Jesus' true Churches and burn everything these people had, even many of the true follows of Jesus Christ, J. M. Carroll's book tells of much of what the Catholics did to the true believers as well as the true churches, you can find this outside of the RCC history books, because one cannot trust nothing that comes out of the RCC history books, for they have been liars from the beginning, for their father was a liar from the beginning, and they have taken on their fathers ways, John 8:44.

I suppose anyone who has studied about the RCC knows they claim to be the succession of Jesus' true church, I say church, because they say their is no such a things as true churches, but they cannot get no closer to Jesus than about 312 when that a heretic group had been driven out from the true churches because of their false teachings and grew into the great false teaching RCC, which some call the great whore, I tend agree with them.

I am not going to get into a debate about this, I just expressed my opinion. Besides such a debate would get us know where and would not bring the least bit of glory to our Father. But I will read what others have to say about it.

I might add, I looked another message board who were debating this subject, their were numerous post on it, page after page of them, but no one was getting no where, that is why I will not debate the issue.

[Tim]

#3 Untraceable... but has always been there.

[ltl]

The purpose of this poll is not for debate but for finding out the views of fellow members on this forum.

[kevinmiller]

I also chose #3, untraceable history. I believe there has always been a remnant of Christ's church but they have not always called themselves Baptists. They were simply Christians.

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
(Acts 11:26)

[Anon]

#2 also states they were not always called Baptists...and that is what I believe.

[bibletotingunslinger]

Unbroken Succession, Unbroken Heritage, strange to me, for both groups to use J. M. Carroll's book to prove their point. But what his book proves is that there has always been a succession of those Churches that was started by Jesus when He started His earthly ministry.

:amen:

[Guest Guest]

I believe number 2, and history proves it.

Katy-Anne

[lettheredeemedsayso]

http://www.trailofblood.com/

This is the history of the Baptist church.


I previously posted the wrong link


http://www.siteone.com/religion/baptist ... Blood.html

[Kubel]

Are we talking about the name Baptist, or the group the most closely follows their beliefs.

I vote untraceable.

[Alen]

They're not talking about the Baptist name, rather has the Baptist doctrine existed since Christ's time, till now, but has undergone different names etc until this point in time.

-Alen

[IM4given]

I refrained from voting because I am not exactly sure what the votes mean...

I always thought that the words "Christian" and "Baptist" were words used by the world as terms of derision and jeering towards a certain group of people who believed that Jesus Christ was the Risen Savior and that only adults who had accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior could receive Baptism. As far as I know, they never called themselves anything except maybe "believers."

Some people think Baptists call themselves that after John the Baptist. However as I understand the term, he was called John the Baptist, just like Peter was called Fisherman, and Luke was called Physician. It was just a title that described what he did - not what denomination he belonged to.

I think the first century church was simply a group of Believers. There were no denominations and if they were "called" anything it was meant as derogatory terms.

I will find the link to the Trail of Blood that describes the early origins of the believers much better than I can, and it described the denominational splits that have occurred along the way.

http://www.trailofblood.com/

[Bakershalfdozen]

I can't vote* for any of those because I do not believe that Jesus founded the Baptist church. Jesus founded His Church and there have always been groups (churches) of believers since Jesus' Ascension. They went by various names: "The Way", "Christians" in Antioch, etc. Down through the centuries there were true believers and eventually some of them were called "Ana-Baptists" because they re-baptized their converts from the RCC.

John in the N.T. (Jesus' cousin) was John the baptizer, not John the first of the Baptist denomination.



*The reason I said I couldn't vote is because each choice states that Jesus founded the Baptist church. If there was an option that said something about true believers who eventually came to be known as Baptists.... then I would have voted for that one.