If you could read Hebrew and Greek

[JJJ4given]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Given is the key word. It is inspired, or God-breathed, when it is given. After that it can only be preserved. God does not, nor does he need to, come down and breath it again.

I believe we are simply playing semantics. You say the inspiration is preserved. I say it is preservation by which we have God's inspiration. Same thing, just different wording. (Inspired only once.)

[Jerry]

Yes, inspired only once - but still inspired. Paul didn't say "was given by inspiration of God" but "is given." And all the times the Bible uses the word "scripture", it always referred to what they held in their hands - ie. copies or translations - not the originals (though of course, what was true of the copies was certainly true of the originals that were penned by the Bible writers: ie, true, holy, pure, sure, inspired, living (quick), etc.

[Will]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Given is the key word. It is inspired, or God-breathed, when it is given. After that it can only be preserved. God does not, nor does he need to, come down and breath it again.

I believe we are simply playing semantics. You say the inspiration is preserved. I say it is preservation by which we have God's inspiration. Same thing, just different wording. (Inspired only once.)

Well...yes. Inspiriation via preservation. Same thing. The thing to remember about a translation, is that it cannot be inspired in the same way as the originals...unless we choose to believe like the Charismatics do that God still directly inspires people in the same manner he did then. A translation is only inspired insofar as it is faithful to the copies of the inspired words of God.

[JJJ4given]

Since the word used in 2 Tim. 3 is actually a greek conjugation of "God" and "breathed" it would make sense that it could only have been "God breathed" when given. Since we have no documentation of any translator getting their translation spoken to them by God, we can conclude that translations are not God breathed, hence, not inspired. And it would be no translation if God came and spoke it again.

[Jerry]

You are making a distinction the Bible itself does not make. Surely Timothy did not have the originals - he only had either copies or translations (if he was reading the OT in Greek, then he had a translation); however, Paul stated what he had IS (not was) inspired by God. Paul was not even referring to the originals in 2 Timothy 3:15-17, but what Timothy currently had growing up and in his possession.

Since the word used in 2 Tim. 3 is actually a greek conjugation of "God" and "breathed" it would make sense that it could only have been "God breathed" when given.

Only? Hm, my Bible says the word of God IS quick and powerful - it was still living - still had God breathing spiritual life into it (in a manner of speaking).

[JJJ4given]

You are making a distinction the Bible itself does not make. Surely Timothy did not have the originals - he only had either copies or translations (if he was reading the OT in Greek, then he had a translation); however, Paul stated what he had IS (not was) inspired by God. Paul was not even referring to the originals in 2 Timothy 3:15-17, but what Timothy currently had growing up and in his possession.

Again you so conveniently remove the word "given". Please read it like it says it. Not just what you want it to say.

Only? Hm, my Bible says the word of God IS quick and powerful - it was still living - still had God breathing spiritual life into it (in a manner of speaking).

[kevinmiller]

I agree with JJ on this one.

[Jerry]

Paul didn't say "was given" nor was the passage referring to the originals - that is called eisegesis, reading into the passage what is not in there. Paul was referring to the Scriptures Timothy already had.

[JJJ4given]

Paul didn't say "was given"

Nor did I.

Jerry,
If the scriptures were still being written at that time(and they were) then it would be proper grammer to use the present tense form of the adjective. Paul was referring to ALL scripture. Not just what Timothy already had.

[Guest Guest]

I guess we should start saying that "all Hebrew, a little Aramaic, and Koine Greek Original Autographs were given by inspiration of God." :nutty

Wil

[Guest Guest]

Nor did I.

Jerry,
If the scriptures were still being written at that time(and they were) then it would be proper grammer to use the present tense form of the adjective. Paul was referring to ALL scripture. Not just what Timothy already had.

They guy is trying to say now that Paul wasn't using the proper grammar.

A... Excuse me Paul, but what you really meant was....

See what happens when you begin to mess with the Greek. No longer don't you
believe the English but you can't even focus on it anymore. You question it on every turn. All you see is Greek,or at least what some other guy says the Greek says. And they are always changing their minds on what is says . "Meddle not with him that is given to change."

Wil

[Guest Guest]

Nor did I.

Jerry,
If the scriptures were still being written at that time(and they were) then it would be proper grammer to use the present tense form of the adjective. Paul was referring to ALL scripture. Not just what Timothy already had.

I'm starting to get suspect of hearing that inspiration means "God breathed." If God wanted

it to say that wouldn't he have said it ? Or is it , as the Greek Scholars Union would say,

an "unfortunate rendering?"

By saying it's God breathed then when you say the AV 1611 is without error

the Greek Onlyism crowd can say you are teaching "re-revelation." Anotherwards, that

God would have revealed his word like he did to the original writers. Inspiration and

preservation cannot be seperated. You had God moving upon holy men as they SPOKE the

word of God (that's revelation) and then it was written down (that's inspiration) and then it's

given to the church to preserve by God's guidance. In the OT this would have been delivered

onto the Levites to preserve by God's guidance. I trust that God got to us exactly what he

wanted us to have. The pure word of God for the English speaking people of the world.

Any "errors" that the "Original Autograph Onlyism"

crowd says there is or any "differences" between the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts are

"errors" ( as the critics would say they are) and "differences" that God wanted us to have.

Wil PS.12:6,7

[kevinmiller]

They guy is trying to say now that Paul wasn't using the proper grammar.

A... Excuse me Paul, but what you really meant was....

See what happens when you begin to mess with the Greek. No longer don't you
believe the English but you can't even focus on it anymore. You question it on every turn. All you see is Greek,or at least what some other guy says the Greek says. And they are always changing their minds on what is says . "Meddle not with him that is given to change."

Wil

You are completely misconstruing his post. He wasn't correcting the Greek. He was pointing out that since a present tense was used, that it meant ALL Scripture. Seems plain enough to me...

I'm starting to get suspect of hearing that inspiration means "God breathed." If God wanted

it to say that wouldn't he have said it ? Or is it , as the Greek Scholars Union would say,

an "unfortunate rendering?"

By saying it's God breathed then when you say the AV 1611 is without error

the Greek Onlyism crowd can say you are teaching "re-revelation."

You need to go back and read JJ's posts. Never did he say that there was any error in the KJV. And the word inspiration does mean "God breathed." You can ask just about any man who has gone to Bible college(as long as it wasn't PBI) and they will tell you that that is what it means. It's just like looking up any other word in the dictionary. It's not "correcting" anything.

[JJJ4given]

I've misread my share of posts too.
Asongofdegrees,
Please reread what I said and you will see that it supports what Paul said. Not the other way around.

[Kubel]

If God wanted it to say that wouldn't he have said it?

...He did... :wink