"Misquoting Jesus" destroying the faith of Christians

[kevinmiller]

Kevin, I've done plenty of research and study. You don't grow up in a decent home with a decent pastor without learning WHY the Word of God is perfect. Either God has a perfect word out here somewhere, or He doesn't and He's a liar. Take your pick; it's actually a simple choice.

You are making an unfounded statement about all other versions collectively. That is where I'm having the problem with your lack of research, because you don't have the authority to say that there exists no other version that is on an equal plane with the KJV.

I do believe that God's Word is perfect. I am still undecided as to whether there can exist a translation that can fully embody and communicate the message of the originals, thus being perfect in every sense, though I am certain that a translation can be without error.

[Guest Guest]

You are making an unfounded statement about all other versions collectively. That is where I'm having the problem with your lack of research, because you don't have the authority to say that there exists no other version that is on an equal plane with the KJV.

I do believe that God's Word is perfect. I am still undecided as to whether there can exist a translation that can fully embody and communicate the message of the originals, thus being perfect in every sense, though I am certain that a translation can be without error.

Well, if there exists one that hasn't already been disproved by the hundreds of Bible Believers that have studied this subject, then please be so kind as to bring it to my attention.

Where are these originals, Kevin? God's Word is to endure forever and be pure; where is it?

[Psalms18_28]

I think we have a situation where the Gospel of Christ is not heard or the bible is not available..... like somewhere in Africa. No need to make up a little story about an island. It's God's will that his words will be available for those reject false religion and seek him.. Like if a plane crash really did happen, then someone is more likely to find them and give them the bible. You can't make the bible go away.

[Guest Guest]

I think we already have a situation where the Gospel of Christ is not heard..... like somewhere in Africa. No need to make up a little story about an island. It's God's wills that his words will be available for those reject false religion and seek him.. Like if a plane crash really did happen' date=' then someone is more likely to them and give them the bible. You can't make the bible go away.[/quote']

'Tis quite true. I've heard many stories about tracts randomly popping up in the strangest places. For instance, in Africa, a native found a tract out in the bush, miles from anyplace, and since he couldn't read it, he took it to a town where a man read it to him, even though he couldn't peak the black man's language very well. The native wrote to the church, telling them that he did what the tract said, and with his limited knowledge, but simple faith, accepted Christ as his saviour. He asked for more tracts so he could give them to his people, and with that he started an evangelistic outreach to the people of his tribe. God's power is amazing!

[Guest Guest]

The situation I was speaking of would be one where the people were stranded without a bible and no one knew they were stranded. Of course for hypothetical reasons only, just picture a situation where a group of people with knowledge of the bible had no bible, for what ever reason. They would have to pass down the gospel orally (again, assuming no one could verbatim quote the entire bible so they could make their own copy). The book would be about what type of christianity resulted from such a situation. It's hypothetical, so you kind of have to use your imagination.

[Psalms18_28]

The thing is, we don't use our imagination, we use situation that is real. And realistically, someone will noticed they are missing and search for them.

[kevinmiller]

Well, if there exists one that hasn't already been disproved by the hundreds of Bible Believers that have studied this subject, then please be so kind as to bring it to my attention.

Where are these originals, Kevin? God's Word is to endure forever and be pure; where is it?

You can't expect me to take the word of "hundreds of Bible believers" who's minds are already too clouded by error to make an unbiased judgment.

I really don't want to go down the silly "where are the originals" route. We've been there and done that before and it's proven to be totally fruitless. God's Word has and will endure forever. The manuscripts are not God's Word, the message contained therein is the Word of God. That's why the KJV is the Word of God and the Geneva Bible and even parts of modern versions, as well as numerous foreign translations.

[John the Baptist]

Hi John. Bart and many others got those liberal ideas about Genesis from men like Bruce Metzger, the ex-champion of modern textual criticism. Anybody who uses and believes in textual criticism will soon embrace the idea that there is no such thing as an inspired and infallible Bible in any language, including (or even, especially) "the" Hebrew and "the" Greek. It is my contention that if any English speaker is NOT a King James Bible onlyist, then he does not believe in an infallible Bible at all.

Will K

There are many scholars who believe, the Word of God. Daniel Wallace will debate Bart. Wallace does not believe like that As well as most the professors I had in College and Seminary. For you to make a blank statement like that, which has no factual basis, shows how bias you really are.

[Guest Guest]

You can't expect me to take the word of "hundreds of Bible believers" who's minds are already too clouded by error to make an unbiased judgment.

I really don't want to go down the silly "where are the originals" route. We've been there and done that before and it's proven to be totally fruitless. God's Word has and will endure forever. The manuscripts are not God's Word, the message contained therein is the Word of God. That's why the KJV is the Word of God and the Geneva Bible and even parts of modern versions, as well as numerous foreign translations.

You should read my blog entry titled "What is Truth?" It fits you quite well, I'm afraid to say.

God never said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the message that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Or "Sanctify them through thy truth; thy message is truth." Nor "Thy message is very pure."

It's about the WORDS, Kevin. If you don't have the WORDS of God, you have nothing.

[Guest Guest]

There are many scholars who believe, the Word of God. Daniel Wallace will debate Bart. Wallace does not believe like that As well as most the professors I had in College and Seminary. For you to make a blank statement like that, which has no factual basis, shows how bias you really are.

Please clarify which statement you are calling baseless; I'm a little confused as to the intent of your post.

[kevinmiller]

You should read my blog entry titled "What is Truth?" It fits you quite well, I'm afraid to say.

God never said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the message that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Or "Sanctify them through thy truth; thy message is truth." Nor "Thy message is very pure."

It's about the WORDS, Kevin. If you don't have the WORDS of God, you have nothing.

If that's the case, then you're in trouble because Christ didn't speak English...or Paul, or Peter, or Isaiah, or Moses.

[Guest Guest]

If that's the case' date=' then you're in trouble because Christ didn't speak English...or Paul, or Peter, or Isaiah, or Moses.[/quote']

I'm getting tired of people saying that. It's so blatantly obvious that you'd have to be completely daft to think anyone believes that they spoke English.

And no, you don't have those words in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Chaldean either. You have what is believed to be a close copy or true rendition thereof.

And if you don't like the "originals" argument, then why on God's earth do you persist in believing something so obviously foolish? There ARE NO ORIGINALS, so how do you expect to compare something to the "Originals"??? Come on pal, use that noggin.

[kevinmiller]

It's useless arguing with someone who chooses to yield logic and common sense to a wacky man-made belief system.
Outta here. :tip:

[Guest Guest]

It's useless arguing with someone who chooses to yield logic and common sense to a wacky man-made belief system.
Outta here. :tip:

Being that you fail to enlighten me as to which "man-made belief system" I'm supposedly a part of, I suppose I'll be left in the dark as to your implication. Oh well, I won't lose any sleep tonight.

[Jerry]

Wow, umm... I didn't think "rightly" or "wrongly" dividing the word of God had anything to do with word definitions.

This isn't a discussion about dispensationalism or "rightly dividing", here. It's about the Bible itself.

I am not arguing any definitions. Inspiration means "breathed into" - based on the two root words. My argument is that the passage in Job and the passage in 2 Timothy are not both referring to the Bible, just because they both use the same word. 2 Timothy is saying God breathed life into the Scriptures, He inspired them. Job is dealing with a completely different context - about giving man understanding, not about giving the Word of God.