How long are your services?

[kevinmiller]

I wouldn't say that I attend a "mega-church." lol Some of my Korean students think that my church is small coming from churches that have 10 to 20,000 members. :frog

But yeah, there are unsaved people in the church. I believe it is often due more to easy-believism than anything else, but that's another topic. hehe As far as primary purposes go, our primary purpose as Christians is to please God and love Him with our whole heart, not to win souls. Yes, that is a command of God that we will follow when we love Him with our whole being, but it is not our primary purpose. Then the primary purpose of the church is something totally different. The primary purpose of the church is for edification and fellowship. It is to encourage and uplift the local body of Christ. I'm not against ever touching on salvation, that will be a part of a sermon, most likely, at some point if the pastor is preaching the entire Word of God. I'm just against having it as a part of nearly every service because it's not the primary purpose of the church, nor should it be the focus.

[chev1958]

One point that really hasn't been addressed here from either side is who provides the message that the preacher is giving? From the way the discussion is going, it seems all the responders believe the preacher is solely responsible for the message. Why are y'all discounting God's input and His leading in your preacher's messages?

You need to look at services practically. Sunday mornings, Easter, and Christmas are the main times you'll get visitors and nominal church members. Your pastor knows this, and guess what -- God knows it too. Many times, messages are targeted for that demographic. A good part of the Sunday morning crowd isn't interested nor mature enough for meat.

I would hope your church conducts other services and meetings that delve more deeply into Scripture, such as Sunday School, Sunday evenings, midweek, and maybe even small groups. If you're a church member wanting meat, those are the services where Scriptural "steak" is usually served. If you're serious about learning the higher principles of God's Word, attending only Sunday mornings won't cut it. Attend the other services, because your pastor knows those are the folks who are serious about God's Word.

That being said, as a church member, you should assume your pastor is seeking God's guidance for sermons. In all honesty, I think it's rather selfish to complain about any message that God has given your pastor. You're not the only one in the congregation. There may be something going on within your church that even your pastor doesn't know about, but God gives him a particular message anyway. Each sermon may not be aimed at you on a particular service, but someone else may need it. But if you keep you mind open, you'll still get something from the message. And how can anyone get tired of hearing about salvation? I'm amazed at that. Every salvation message I hear brings me back to the time when God reached down and touched my heart. It reminds me of God's goodness to me and keeps me humble.

There have been several times that I didn't understand why God was leading me toward a certain message. Sometimes I thought our folks were a little more mature than that, or the topic was way over their heads, or they already heard so much preaching about a particular topic they would be bored. However, when I quit "arguing" with God over those messages and let Him guide me, those messages always seemed to be right on target for someone's situation.

{misunderstood comment deleted by poster}

[John81]

One point that really hasn't been addressed here from either side is who provides the message that the preacher is giving? From the way the discussion is going, it seems all the responders believe the preacher is solely responsible for the message. Why are y'all discounting God's input and His leading in your preacher's messages?

You need to look at services practically. Sunday mornings, Easter, and Christmas are the main times you'll get visitors and nominal church members. Your pastor knows this, and guess what -- God knows it too. Many times, messages are targeted for that demographic. A good part of the Sunday morning crowd isn't interested nor mature enough for meat.

I would hope your church conducts other services and meetings that delve more deeply into Scripture, such as Sunday School, Sunday evenings, midweek, and maybe even small groups. If you're a church member wanting meat, those are the services where Scriptural "steak" is usually served. If you're serious about learning the higher principles of God's Word, attending only Sunday mornings won't cut it. Attend the other services, because your pastor knows those are the folks who are serious about God's Word.

That being said, as a church member, you should assume your pastor is seeking God's guidance for sermons. In all honesty, I think it's rather selfish to complain about any message that God has given your pastor. You're not the only one in the congregation. There may be something going on within your church that even your pastor doesn't know about, but God gives him a particular message anyway. Each sermon may not be aimed at you on a particular service, but someone else may need it. But if you keep you mind open, you'll still get something from the message. And how can anyone get tired of hearing about salvation? I'm amazed at that. Every salvation message I hear brings me back to the time when God reached down and touched my heart. It reminds me of God's goodness to me and keeps me humble.

There have been several times that I didn't understand why God was leading me toward a certain message. Sometimes I thought our folks were a little more mature than that, or the topic was way over their heads, or they already heard so much preaching about a particular topic they would be bored. However, when I quit "arguing" with God over those messages and let Him guide me, those messages always seemed to be right on target for someone's situation.

{misunderstood statement deleted}

Not a bad post until the last sentence.

[chev1958]

Sorry, John, that comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but since you didn't see it that way, I'll take it out.

[kevinmiller]

Saying that the pastor is led of God opens to door for a "the pastor is always right" mentality. I agree that they seek God for their sermons, but I do believe that they can be wrong in their understanding/interpretation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. A pastor could be preaching heresy and claiming that he is being "led of God." How is it that there are so many churches in this country with so many differing views and many of them are all praying that God will lead them in their preparing of the message? It's because, even when we try to be Spirit-led, we are still human and make mistakes of judgment or discernment. Plus, our vision is often clouded by bias either way, that's how preachers are "led" to speak on a passage of Scripture that we all might disagree on the interpretation of it.

[chev1958]

Saying that the pastor is led of God opens to door for a "the pastor is always right" mentality.

Either you've had a lot of bad experiences with pastors, or you simply don't trust anyone in authority. While I've never felt this way about any of the pastors I've sat under, I have heard of some who become dictators, and I would have a hard time under such leadership. But that's not the issue I was addressing. Yes, preachers can preach wrong interpretations. And your job as a congregant is to point it out. But I thought the issue was the difficulty you were having with your preacher's sermons. Unless I missed it, you didn't say he was preaching error. You were complaining about the topics of his sermons. That's what I was addressing.

[RayJr]

I wouldn't say that I attend a "mega-church." lol Some of my Korean students think that my church is small coming from churches that have 10 to 20,000 members. :frog

But yeah, there are unsaved people in the church. I believe it is often due more to easy-believism than anything else, but that's another topic. hehe As far as primary purposes go, our primary purpose as Christians is to please God and love Him with our whole heart, not to win souls. Yes, that is a command of God that we will follow when we love Him with our whole being, but it is not our primary purpose. Then the primary purpose of the church is something totally different. The primary purpose of the church is for edification and fellowship. It is to encourage and uplift the local body of Christ. I'm not against ever touching on salvation, that will be a part of a sermon, most likely, at some point if the pastor is preaching the entire Word of God. I'm just against having it as a part of nearly every service because it's not the primary purpose of the church, nor should it be the focus.

I want you to know because there has been a lot of talk around here about folks being a little snotty with each other that I did not intend it that way although it could have been taken that way, that being said. I believe that the term church does not refer to a building or a place, I know today the word is used to describe a place,but I believe the term church means body of believers, of which the bride of Christ is made up. I will respectfully disagree with you about the churches main goal not being to save the lost souls. We are to live as Christ, Christ came to seak and to save that which was lost, If that was His main goal, I believe it is mine as well, ofcourse I can't save anyone, but I can show them who can, I see nothing wrong with uplifting eachother, we need that from time to time, I believe we were instructed to teach people about Jesus and why He came.
(Matt 28:19 [KJV])
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

If not to seek out the lost what do you think our main goal as the church should be?

[kevinmiller]

I want you to know because there has been a lot of talk around here about folks being a little snotty with each other that I did not intend it that way although it could have been taken that way, that being said. I believe that the term church does not refer to a building or a place, I know today the word is used to describe a place,but I believe the term church means body of believers, of which the bride of Christ is made up. I will respectfully disagree with you about the churches main goal not being to save the lost souls. We are to live as Christ, Christ came to seak and to save that which was lost, If that was His main goal, I believe it is mine as well, ofcourse I can't save anyone, but I can show them who can, I see nothing wrong with uplifting eachother, we need that from time to time, I believe we were instructed to teach people about Jesus and why He came.
(Matt 28:19 [KJV])
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

If not to seek out the lost what do you think our main goal as the church should be?

First, we must determine our main purpose as Christians. I believe that Christ answered that when He told us what the greatest commandment in the Bible was.
Then, you have to determine what the purpose of the church was in Scripture. The great commission was given to Christians, or the Church of Christ, not the local church. The great commission is fulfilled as a by-product of our total love for God, since it will cause us to keep His commandments. The purpose of the local church in the Bible was for edification, fellowship, and growing together.

[HappyChristian]

Saying that the pastor is led of God opens to door for a "the pastor is always right" mentality.

:puzzled: :puzzled: Um, as Christians, we are all supposed to be led of God. And the pastor had better be led of God when he preaches. I understand what you are saying in the paragraph following this quote. And people going their own way while saying they are led of God does happen. But I wouldn't be part of a congregation where I couldn't be sure that my pastor was being led of God. No, the pastor is not always right; pastors at times will put their opinions into their sermons. And that is where our own personal study comes in, and our leading of the Spirit. But if the pastor is truly led of God, there will be no attempt to deify the pastor.

[bibletotingunslinger]

Let see?????
Make Coffee
Put a bowl of cereal with milk on counter
Pray for everything I can think of including the forum and Sisters kids in Florida.
Read chapter for Jr. Church
Wake up warden
Drive to Church @9:30AM
9:25 Run 3 bags of stuff into the door,
Unlock other doors,
Turn up all the heaters,
Set up the Audio System(As per musical numbers in bulletin)(Dress pastor with lapel mic (New Batteries)and fix his tie)
9:45 things start
Welcome
Mute Pastor, key in Piano,,, Sing
Mute Piano Key in Pastor,
Excuses to Sunday School(I go stand at the door and greet folks and hand out itinerary's.
10:30 Sunday School ends,, Mute all.
10:40 Key in piano
10:45 Service starts Key in Pastor
15 min of full scale audio system operation, mute all but pastor
Dismiss to Jr. Church,, I grab my books and they lock me in a cell with 8-10 year olds,
I barely have time to get my riot gear on before I pick up my Bible and begin to preach.
12:15 I jump on top of the filing cabinet (In hopes I don't get run over)as the door is opened.
I run shut down audio, take pastors lapel mic and put it all away.

And that s only if we don't have Baptism's,,, Then I am in charge of filling, heating and moving the tub. And cleaning it when done.