Hebrews 6:4-6

[deputydog530]

I havnt read all posts but there is the answer right ther "IF they shall fall away,to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

If they shall fall away, that is if it were possible to lose salvation you could never be renewed unless Christ returned to earth and you crucified Him again.

Saved people can backslide into sin but can never fall away (lose salvation).

[Wilchbla]

I havnt read all posts but there is the answer right ther "IF they shall fall away,to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

If they shall fall away, that is if it were possible to lose salvation you could never be renewed unless Christ returned to earth and you crucified Him again.

Saved people can backslide into sin but can never fall away (lose salvation).

Yes, this is the common explanation with the passage. My problem with that explanation is why waste time explaining what would happen if they could lose their salvation if it could never happen to begin with.

[deputydog530]

Hey Wilchbla, I believe it has to do with the audiance to whom it was written. He is teaching them true salvation and not that of works of the law, or loss of salvation for failure to keep the law.

Hebrews 6:1 sets the context...

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


dd

[heartstrings]

Was not Judas Iscariot "enlightened"....He heard Jesus preach. He heard the truth. And he never saw Jesus sin one single time. The light had "shone in darkness" for Judas Iscariot.

DId He walk with God and experience first hand the goodness of God? Did Judas "taste of the Heavenly gift"? [bible]Psalm 34:8[/bible]

What about witnessing the "powers of the world to come" when he saw Jesus heal the sick, cast out devils, raise the dead and control Nature? DId not Jesus manifest His Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Omnipresence to Judas Iscariot? When all of that, through the power of the Holy Ghost, gripped Judas Iscariot's heart and convicted him of his sin, Jesus' Righteousness, and the judgement to come, Judas rejected. Judas kissed the door to heaven and went to Hell.

Couldn't being a "partaker" of the Holy Ghost, be simply experiencing the convicting power of His love, and conviction in your heart? That is how he convicts, by gripping your heart with fear, manifesting His love, and showing you your need. But you can reject all that and go to Hell. Doesn't conviction take place in the heart? I'm just asking.

Let me say, when the Holy Ghost INDWELLS a person, that person cannot be lost ever again. So can that be the same as "partaking"?

[deputydog530]

heartstrings wrote:

Couldn't being a "partaker" of the Holy Ghost, be simply experiencing the convicting power of His love, and conviction in your heart? That is how he convicts, by gripping your heart with fear, manifesting His love, and showing you your need. But you can reject all that and go to Hell. Doesn't conviction take place in the heart? I'm just asking.

I agree heartstrings. I believe that the principles of these verses apply to saved and lost. Another example is the unsaved man married to a saved woman. He expiriences the blessings of heaven. (it rains on the just and unjust Matt 5:45) He may even go to Church with her sometimes. I believe this would make him a partaker and one who has tasted but not feasted on the gift of God.

dd

[Wilchbla]

Hey Wilchbla, I believe it has to do with the audiance to whom it was written. He is teaching them true salvation and not that of works of the law, or loss of salvation for failure to keep the law.

Hebrews 6:1 sets the context...

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


dd

Yes, but why mention what would happen to them IF they lost their salvation if it could never happen? That just doesn't make sense to me. Let me make it clear that I don't believe a Christian can lose their salvation but I also don't agree with the teaching that the writer was telling them what would happen IF they could lose it. There is something else in play here.

[deputydog530]

To teach them. 2 Tim 3:16

They were still tempted to follow under the law. If salvation comes by keeping the Law, then if one does not keep the Law, then they can be lost. He was teaching them that Christ paid it all once and for all.

dd

[robycop3]

As Baptists, we should believe God's word at FACE VALUE. God had told the writer of Hebrews what would happen IF ONE SHOULD FALL AWAY. Now, if that weren't possible, God wouldn'ta said it, now would He?

[deputydog530]

Then you cant believe John 10:28-29, Eph 1:13 and many other verses that teach eternal security. It appears to me your do not look at the context but rather isolate verses and make them say what YOU think.

Loss of salvation is false doctrine Eph 4:14

[robycop3]

It can't be both. Now, while GOD will never reject anyone, one can reject HIM. That's why Hebrews 6:4-6 is in Scripture. They weren't put there for filler.

[deputydog530]

robycop3 wrote:

Big difference in the saved backslider who's become indifferent towards God & the person who, after being saved, SPURNS Him, not believing in Jesus any more.

robycop3 wrote:

It can't be both. Now, while GOD will never reject anyone, one can reject HIM. That's why Hebrews 6:4-6 is in Scripture. They weren't put there for filler.

It seems your contradicting yourself. You say one can "spurn" Christ "not believing hin Jesus anymore".

Then you say a person can "reject HIM". Hence never saved?

So if a man can be saved and then remove himself from God John 10:28-29 is not true according to you.

It cant be both? What do you mean?

And as far as filler in the Word of God, why would you state that? Its clear from my posts on this board im one of those narrow minded folk that believe that the very words of God are preserved as scripture teaches.

[robycop3]

That's why the Scripture sez "fall away". It's a DELIBERATE turning of one's back on Christ, a cessation of believing in Him they're mentioning, not just growing complacent about Him & not thinking of Him nor praising/worshipping Him as often as one should.

[heartstrings]

Sir,
There are many scriptures in the Bible which affirm that believers are secure in their salvation.The Bible says we are kept by the power of God. [bible]1 Peter 1:5[/bible] A new creature [bible]2 Corinthians 5:17[/bible] We have everlasting life [bible]John 5:24[/bible] Shall not come into condemnation [bible]John 5:24[/bible] We are passed from death unto life [bible]John 5:24[/bible].

Has Jesus ever come into your heart?

[Guest Guest]

Sir,
If you think about it, if you can lose your salvation, you're overpowering God.
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

[Wilchbla]

All you folks are going to keep arguing this topic in circles because what you both are saying is half right/wrong. Those folks in Hebrews 6 can lose their salvation but those folks in Hebrews 6 are not part of the body of Christ. The whole book of Hebrews is primarily speaking to Jews waiting for the return of Christ during the "last days". Hebrews 1:2 tells you this. If they don't endure onto the end and fall back and take the mark of the beast they'll go to hell. This has nothing to do with the church in this age or prior to the rapture. A believe now is sealed unto the day of redemption but these folks in Hebrews are NOT.