Christian divorced man

[TheGloryLand]

As far as I remember, if a divorced man was a Christian, before coming to Christ or after, could not be a deacon, teacher, or preacher. Has this changed? and is it OK for divorce Preachers give marriage counseling classes to a family in need, of counseling.

Edited 22 hours ago by TheGloryLand

[HappyChristian]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

As far as I remember, if a divorced man was a Christian, before coming to Christ or after, could not be a deacon, teacher, or preacher. Has this changed? and is it OK for divorce Preachers give marriage counseling classes to a family in need, of counseling.

Biblically, my hubs and I believe it is still wrong. As to a divorced man giving counseling, well - if he has learned from what brought about the divorce and has grown spiritually, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't think the Bible addresses it, either, so there's nothing we could say is unbiblical about it. Now, if the man is an unrepentant adulterer, then no way (and believe me, there are far too many unrepentant adulterers in pulpits and/or involved in ministries).

[BrotherTony]

My ex BIL was a militant IFB pastor for many years. He and my sister had five daughters, two sets of twins and a single birth, and he was strongly against divorced men in the pulpit or even serving in the church. To my mother and fathers face he was "respectful", but in actions in front of his eife and kids at home he was a Pharisee making himself out to be far better than he was. After my sister divorced him for extreme mental cruelty towards her and the girls, he started using the verse about letting the unbeliever depart. After a couple of years working at Lowes he started working with the youth of the church he was attending and remarried. He later became the youth pastor. A couple of years later he threw ALL of his beliefs out the window to justify becoming a pastor again. He now pastors a church in S. Georgia. He councils others concerning divorce and consistently tries to relieve himself of any responsibility in his own. It's sad how many who are staunchly anti divorced men in the pastorate are for it once it's come to their doorstep. 

Edited 14 hours ago by BrotherTony

[Pastor Matt]

We have too many pastors out there with strong convictions, but when those convictions apply to themselves, they no longer hold to them. Didn't Jesus in Matthew condemned those who enforced standards on others while not adhering to them themselves? 

[Napsterdad]

I struggle with this one a bit. Mainly with regard to those who got married before they were saved. Then, after some years, one or the other gets saved, but the other refuses to accept the gift and continues on in a sinful lifestyle, sometimes even more so just to get under the skin of the newly saved spouse. This happened to my brother. He got saved and his wife threw down the gauntlet. When he then got baptized she went off the deep end. Had he stayed married to her she would not only have destroyed her own life, but his as well.

I know 1 Timothy 3 states that Pastors and Deacons should be the husband of one wife, but can someone affirm that doesn't just simply mean 'the husband of one wife', a previous unbiblical marriage not being part of the equation? What do you do with Ezra 10 where it was condoned that people not only put away their wives, but children as well, from marriages that were done outside the will of God?

I'm not saying that the prevailing opinion on 1 Timothy 3, that one must never have been divorced to be a pastor or deacon, is wrong; I am just stating that I am not convinced. My brother was never called to either office (rightly so for many other reasons), but I know a few others that if they believed they were called would probably make very good pastors or deacons.

Then, what do you do with the man whose only wife is a divorced woman? Is he disqualified? For the deacon 1 Timothy 3:11 states: Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

But no such requirement is listed under the pastor qualifications. And does this verse mean that she cannot be a divorcee? What if her previous husband was very abusive to the point her life (and that of her children) was in danger?

Once again, I am not stating that the prevailing IFB stance of no divorce for a pastor or deacon is wrong, I am just stating that I am not fully convinced. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Napsterdad

[TheGloryLand]

8 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Biblically, my hubs and I believe it is still wrong. As to a divorced man giving counseling, well - if he has learned from what brought about the divorce and has grown spiritually, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't think the Bible addresses it, either, so there's nothing we could say is unbiblical about it. Now, if the man is an unrepentant adulterer, then no way (and believe me, there are far too many unrepentant adulterers in pulpits and/or involved in ministries).

The Bible does set standards of dos and don’ts, and who can lead and who cannot lead. it seems to me, I could be wrong that churches today are letting their standards down. Example a couple not having sex before they get married. This Is on the back burner and not enforced like it was one time. This reminds me of the Ronald Reagan days, when he said, don’t ask don’t tell. I believe it was Ron Reagan that said this.

[BrotherTony]

1 minute ago, Pastor Matt said:

We have too many pastors out there with strong convictions, but when those convictions apply to themselves, they no longer hold to them. Didn't Jesus in Matthew condemned those who enforced standards on others while not adhering to them themselves? 

Yessir. Many of my pastor friends who were also friends with my ex BIL have sided with my sister in the divorce because her husband wouldn't do anything outside of the ministry. His income, or lack thereof caused my sister to go into several network marketing companies where she did quite well. He forced her to stop, and once they had moved back to Georgia to be closer to his family, he was overbearing with my sister and the girls ALWAYS attributing everything that happened to THEIR sin, ALWAYS excluding himself. After nearly suffering a nervous breakdown herself my sister kicked him out. He twisted scripture right and left, even in the separation and divorce proceedings pushed ALL of the blame on her. My sister was no angel in all of this, but she didn't endanger her kids health and lives. He did. Their friends, with the exception of one who is in the pastorate, have stated that Steve should not be in the pulpit. I agree. 

[HappyChristian]

3 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

The Bible does set standards of dos and don’ts, and who can lead and who cannot lead. it seems to me, I could be wrong that churches today are letting their standards down. Example a couple not having sex before they get married. This Is on the back burner and not enforced like it was one time. This reminds me of the Ronald Reagan days, when he said, don’t ask don’t tell. I believe it was Ron Reagan that said this.

Yes, the Bible does set standards. As I said, that is why hubs and I stand firmly on divorced men pastoring/deaconing. Your question about counseling, however, is not something the Bible speaks to. So in that case, it would depend on the spiritual growth of the person.  Just as a point of correction, Reagan did not coin that term. Not sure who actually did, but it became policy during Clinton's regime. It was not in play at all during Reagan's years. Nor even Bush's.

@Napsterdad - I truly get the conundrum. There are a number of folks I personally know who were divorced before salvation. There is, in fact (or was a few decades ago - I have no idea now if they still do this) a college where a professor claimed that God said, "you got a what?" when someone said he couldn't preach because he was divorced before salvation. Sadly, it came out that this man and his wife were child abusers...I know, different sin, but my point in it is that when someone is involved in what he was, it casts serious doubt on ALL of his teachings. There is nowhere in scripture that teaches God would say, "you got a what?"

Ezra 10 does indeed talk about the men putting away their wives and the children from those marriages. The reason was because they married outside of Israel, thus bringing pagan beliefs into the tribes. However, we have to realize that this bit of history is not instruction for us to follow in regards to marriage. This was OT economy not Church under grace actions. 

I do wrestle with this sometimes - even though I firmly believe it - because my mother heart hurts for my son, who had a bad first marriage. He can preach with the best of them, studies and learns his Bible, leads his family in the ways of the Lord, witnesses, etc. But...he is in agreement with us that he cannot pastor or deacon. God has most definitely forgiven him and restored what the locust ate. But actions have consequences even when we've been forgiven.

As to the husband of one wife instruction...it is commonly accepted that this was stated in allusion to the fact that polygamy was common and Paul was instructing Timothy that a pastor was not to have multiple wives. It has become very popular to say that a divorced man who has remarried only has one wife. I believe that is in response to the fact that so many pastors have been divorced and remarried as a way to put a stamp of approval on their remaining in the pulpit (or being "restored" after a certain time of repentance).

I know it's not a biblical "argument," but in reference to the idea that this passage is simply speaking of polygamy/polyandry (multiple husbands) it is interesting to note that divorce and remarriage is considered "serial polygamy." Which means having more than one wife, just not all at the same time.

Just some thoughts. Oh, and I want to add...neither my hubs nor myself look down on folks who have been divorced who remain in the pulpit. We have enough on our plates without trying to eat their food. 

[Napsterdad]

@HappyChristianThank you for the well-reasoned response. More grist for the mill. There is a good amount of gray area here. Perhaps this is one of those issue that we will never have a definitive answer to this side of Heaven. And when we are there it really won't matter anymore will it?