What is your Millennial view?

[dblev]

What is everyones view on the Millennium?

dblev

[elijahruth]

what's the difference between historic and dispensational? I believe in pre millenial, but am not ignorant to the fact that their will be trials and martyrs before Jesus comes before the larger 7 year trib.

[dblev]

what's the difference between historic and dispensational? I believe in pre millenial' date=' but am not ignorant to the fact that their will be trials and martyrs before Jesus comes before the larger 7 year trib.[/quote']

The difference between historic pre-millenialist and dispensational premillenialist is how they view Israel. The dispensational pre-millennialist see the church and Israel as two separate entities, while the historical pre-millennialist see's the church as the fulfillment of Israel (Gal. 3:29), much like the the post and a-millennialist. Another difference between the two groups are were they place the rapture of the church. The dispensational pre-millennialist tends to place the rapture seven years prior to the second coming of Christ, while the historical pre-millennialist as does the post and a-millennialist place the rapture of the church at the second coming of Christ. Both historic and dispensational pre-millennialist place the second coming of Christ prior to the millennium.

dblev

[Guest Guest]

I'm a Historical Pre-Millinnialist.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[jeffrabc]

As a Christian when chapter 4 of Revelation starts I'm all ready in Heaven with Jesus.

[Hambone]

As a Christian when chapter 4 of Revelation starts I'm all ready in Heaven with Jesus.

Revelation 4:1 and its relation to the rapture is a theory. I'm assuming (you know what they say about assuming) that you are of the belief that after this the word "church" is not used, and that means something. In my opinion, it means no more than the fact that the word church isn't used in Rev 4-22. If you were to apply this 'theory' to the Gospel of John, I guess you could say that nothing in the Gospel of John applies to the Church.

[1Timothy115]

I never took the opportunity to see at what point in scripture the church would be called out. It was sufficient for me to know that it would. I'll have to study it and get back to you later...much later most likely :sad

[John81]

I never took the opportunity to see at what point in scripture the church would be called out. It was sufficient for me to know that it would. I'll have to study it and get back to you later...much later most likely :sad

The main thing is that we know that day is coming and Scripture says we are to be busy about the Father's work and ready when that day does arrive.

Knowing Christ is returning for us we are to be motivated to do the work He has prepared for us while we yet have time and to be ever growing in personal holiness. As long as were are doing these things it really doesn't matter when He actually comes for us.

[Hambone]

As long as were are doing these things it really doesn't matter when He actually comes for us.

[Madeline]

Why would the Church go through the Tribulation? The answer lies in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Jesus paid our sin debt in FULL, so there is no reason to believe that the church will go through the tribulation in any case.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Love,
Madeline

[candlelight]

Why would the Church go through the Tribulation? The answer lies in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Jesus paid our sin debt in FULL, so there is no reason to believe that the church will go through the tribulation in any case.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Love,
Madeline

I also look at it simply put: Why would Our Heavenly Father put His children through that? He wouldn't!

Revelation 3:10... Because thou has kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. "The Words of Jesus Christ" - "And to the Angel of the church in Philadelphia" - "Letters to the Seven Churches" King James Bible

In Christ Jesus ~

Molly

[Guest Guest]

I also look at it simply put: Why would Our Heavenly Father put His children through that? He wouldn't!

Revelation 3:10... Because thou has kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. "The Words of Jesus Christ" - "And to the Angel of the church in Philadelphia" - "Letters to the Seven Churches" King James Bible

In Christ Jesus ~

Molly

Excuse me, ma'am, but I am afraid that is not a valid argument. Using that, we must say Job must not be literal, as surely God would not put him through that.

Furthermore, Revelation 3:10 is not valid evidence either. He was speaking to the angel of the church in Philadelphia; not all believers in general.

Finally, ma'am, look at this:
(Matthew 24:4-31) - "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. {5} For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. {6} And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. {7} For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. {8} All these are the beginning of sorrows. {9} Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. {10} And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. {11} And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. {12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. {13} But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {14} And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. {15} When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) {16} Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {17} Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: {18} Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. {19} And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"

"{20} But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. {23} Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. {24} For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. {25} Behold, I have told you before. {26} Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. {27} For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. {28} For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. {29} Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The only mention of a rapture here is after the Tribulation.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[Revelation3:20]

Furthermore, Revelation 3:10 is not valid evidence either. He was speaking to the angel of the church in Philadelphia; not all believers in general.

Revelation 3:13 says: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." That is plural. Also in the gospels every time Jesus Christ uttered such a phrase he was teaching in a parable.

Finally, ma'am, look at this:
(Matthew 24:4-31) - "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. {5} For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. {6} And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. {7} For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. {8} All these are the beginning of sorrows. {9} Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. {10} And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. {11} And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. {12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. {13} But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {14} And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. {15} When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) {16} Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {17} Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: {18} Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. {19} And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"

"{20} But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. {23} Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. {24} For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. {25} Behold, I have told you before. {26} Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. {27} For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. {28} For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. {29} Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The only mention of a rapture here is after the Tribulation.

The book of Matthew was directed to a Jewish audience first and foremost, and the part of the passage you quote is dealing with the nation of Israel and the Jews that are saved during the tribulation. Where you left off, verse 36-51, is dealing with the rapture of believers. It would not make sense to tell us in verse 33 that when we see the verses you quote coming to pass we can know it is almost here, and then spend verses 36-51 telling us how unexpected it will be and how no one will see it coming. It is dealing with two different events. Pre-trib for believers, but yes, the Jews will suffer during the time of Jacobs trouble: till their mid-trib rapture which is found in [bible]Revelation 14:14-16/Bible]. The church is raptured between revelation 3 and 4. Otherwise we would have a reasonable idea of when Christ was coming by the events taking place and it would not be a big surprise when it happens.

[Guest Guest]

Revelation 3:13 says: "He that hath an ear' date=' let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." That is plural. Also in the gospels every time Jesus Christ uttered such a phrase he was teaching in a parable. [/quote']
Sir, if we used that as plausible evidence, that would mean everything the Spirit said to each individual church would apply to every church. That is simply not logical.

So, sir, you are saying there are two raptures?
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[no name joe]

My view is what will happen will happen. It is not in my control, and not for me to be concerned about. My concern is to follow Christ as best I know how. Everything else will work itself out.