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  1. Whether you believe the NT and the NC are or are not the same thing is irrelevant. According to the writer of Hebrews we are now living under the New Covenant, the Covenant of Grace. Please go back and read my prior posts, I never said Christ confirmed the Old Covenant for seven years. And I agree He fulfilled the ceremonial Law, we (the church) are continuing to fulfill the moral law. One thing I wanted to ask you about your post, how do you know Christ's ministry lasted 3.5 years? dblev
  2. Please pay careful attention to what the passage says. Verse 26 says the Messiah will be cut off after the 69th week, it does not say He will be cut off at the end of the 69th week. As for the church in the OT, it is referenced many times. One example of which can be found in Jer. 31:31-34. Fellow Baptist John Gill recognizes this passage references the church as he says, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,.... This refers to Gospel times, as is clear from the quotation and application by the apostle, Hebrews 8:8." When the writer of Hebrews quoted Jer. 31:31-34 he summed it up by saying, "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Heb. 8:13), thus recognizing that the New Covenant the Church is under is the covenant spoken of in Jer. 31. The writer of Hebrews once again hammers home the point that Jer. 31:31-34 is referencing the church in Heb. 10:11-17 when he explains that the New Covenant (spoken of in Jer.) is ratified by Christ's offering for all sins. Yes the church is mentioned in the OT, its just not nessisarily referred to as "the church". Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. dblev
  3. The dispensational interpretation of the seventy weeks of Daniel has problems grammatically. First, we must look at the subjects of the sentences in the final paragraph. In the first sentence in verse 26, the subject is the "Messiah". In the next sentence the subject is the "people"; the "prince" is not the subject, but rather it is the object of the prepositional phrase ?the prince that shall come?. Since ?He? in verse 27 is the subject, ?He? could only be referencing back to one of the subjects mentioned earlier in the paragraph, which would be either ?people? or ?Messiah?. Seeing how "He" is singular, not plural, it would be unlikely that it would be referencing the plural subject which is "people"; furthermore, ?people? is not the main subject talked about in this passage. "He" in verse 27 is no doubt referencing the "Messiah"; they are both singular for one, and for two the ?Messiah? is the main subject being spoken about in this passage. Grammatically it?s impossible that "He" is referencing the "prince", because a subject can never be referencing the object of a prepositional phrase. This means it was Christ who established a covenant at the beginning of His ministry, the New Covenant, and in the middle of the final week He put an end to the Old Covenant with His death on the cross. As for the people of the prince in verse 26, they would be the Romans; the prince would be the leader of the people (the Romans) which would have been Titus who lead the Romans to conquer Jerusalem in 70 AD. This sentence seems to be looking forward past the 490 years, to the same time period as the second sentence in verse 27, 70 AD. When all the evidence is considered from this passage it is clear that the 490 years extends from the time Jerusalem was rebuilt until three and a half years following Christ?s death and resurrection, which is about the time of the first martyr of the faith (Stephen) and the beginning of Paul?s ministry to the gentiles. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah (S)be cut off, but not for himself: and the people (S)of the prince (O) that shall come(PP) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.(Where?s the mention of a plain literal 2000+ year gap?) 27 And he (S) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. darras
  4. My first question is; if the New Testament and the New Covenant are not the same thing then please explain to me the difference? Neither of your explinations quite match my view. The covenant Christ established in His ministry was the New Covenant; however, the covenant He put an end to was the Old Covenant. No longer are we bound by the rites and rituals of the Old Covenant because Christ put an end to it, and replaced it with a better covenant. As for which decree did the 70 weeks start counting from, in my view it was Artaxerxes. Cyrus' decree happened way to early. Artaxerxes decree allowed Ezra to take some of the Jews back to Jerusalem from Babylon and institute some reforms. If you measure from 457 BC forward you come to 33 AD which would affirm the seventy sevens would be fulfilled at the time of Christ. dblev
  5. Actually Rev. 1:19 is speaking about the content that will be revealed in this Book and has nothing to do with revealing who the audience is. The intended audience for this Book is introduced in John 1:4 were John announces his audience by saying "John to the seven churches which are in Asia". He never identifies any other audience after that. dblev
  6. Explain this? If the mark of the beast is to be taken in a wooden literal sense, then how would Johns intended audience (seven churches of Asia) be able to identify the beast as Rev. 13:18 says they would be able to if the beast is some antichrist who will appear 1940+ years later. Remember, John told them (not us) that with understanding they would be able to identify the beast by calculating his number, if this were to be some man who lived after the year 2000 then John would have been lying to the seven churches. Rev. 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. dblev
  7. What do you mean "There is no common sense that tells you that Revelation MUST be taken symbolically"? Revelation is Apocalyptic literature, and this style of literature is know for its symbolic elements. In fact we see this style of literature being used in the book of Daniel, and even dispensationalist have no problem taking many of Daniel's prophecies symbolically. dblev
  8. Baker You must remember that Revelation is Apocalyptic literature, and thus much of it is to be taken symbolically. It is very possible that not being able to buy or sell without the mark could indicate that those who do not conform to the ways and ideas of the beast could experiance economic hardships. This view is by no means a stretch. dblev
  9. We must be carful before we start turning the mark of the beast into a physical sign; when we do this we risk falling into the same trap the Pharisees fell into by misinterpret Biblical symbolism as literal. In Deut. 11:18 God tells the people of Israel to tie His Words on their hands and foreheads, and that?s exactly what the Pharisees did. The Pharisees took this passage literal wearing phylacteries, and in Mat. 23:5 Jesus criticized them because they missed the whole point of what the Scripture was communication. God did not intent for them to literally tie His Words on their hands and forehead, rather His intent was that they know His Word (represented by the forehead), and do His Word (represented by the hand). The two marks in Revelation, the Seal of God (Rev. 7:3) and the Mark of the beast, have the same symbolism as Deut 11:18; they symbolize a persons world view and actions, and by their world view and actions we can tell whether one identifies with the beast, or with the Lamb. The question often arises what does the number 666 mean? In verse 18 John informs the 7 churches that with wisdom they can calculate the number of the beast, his number is 666. There is only one first century candidate that would clearly stand out to the 7 churches as the personification of the beast, and that would be Nero Caesar. Using the alpha-numeric system John would have been able to convey to the early church the identity of the beast without the beast being aware of it. When the first century Jewish Christian would transliterated Nero Caesar into Hebrew his name is nrwn qsr; the numeric value of each letter is n-50, r-200, w-6, n-50, q-100, s-60, r-200 and when you add each of these letters together the sum total comes out to 666, the number of the beast. With this evidence in mind it seems quite clear that the seven churches would have seen Nero Caesar as the first century manifestation of the beast. dblev

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