Leaving the IFB

[Pastor Matt]

Is the title click bate?

Hey everyone, I'm curious about something and wanted to get your thoughts. In your part of the world, do you often see non-independent Baptist churches celebrating new members who have recently left the IFB? Here it almost seems like a goal for them, and I find it intriguing. Personally, I've never made a big deal about a non-IB member joining our church, but I'm interested in hearing about different experiences. Is it a common practice or more of a rare occurrence?

 I'm only asking because over here when that happens some churches just put them on a pedestal and brag that he/she just left a independent Baptist Church. 

[BrotherTony]

Here in our area many people are leaving IFB churches. What precipitates this event is usually abuse of members, misuse of power in these churches, or plain neglect of a certain sect of the church. Msny of the smaller SBC associated churches celebrate this type of event because of the person realizing that there are a lot of man-made traditions being held up as settled Bible doctrine. In fact many of the pastors in the SBC associated churches, large and small, have IFB backgrounds. They are always ready to point out that the IFB churches have the "big 'I', little you." I thoroughly understand that line of thought as in many of (not ALL) the IFB churches I was a member of, or helped plant, ended up having pastors who started out well but ended up being DICTATORS, or had the mind set that they were totally independent enough, saying that they didn't associate or cooperate with any other church when it was so very clear that they did, that other churches, such as the ones who associated with the SBC, weren't independent, but were wrong in doctrine and practice because they associated/cooperated in their missions programs.  Even many of the IFB churches are leaving the "denomination" and becoming Community Churches, SBC churches, or other. 

Edited February 1 by BrotherTony

[R Sauter]

I believe it is always a good thing when genuine believers leave their apostate churches (that have all the external pinnings of "orthodoxy") and are able to find healthy, bible-based, bible-believing churches! There are a good number of IFB Churches that are apostate as there are SBC Churches. Neither has a corner on the market regarding biblical soundness or total depravity. IFB pastors cry about everyone "Painting with a Broad Brush" but if they were truly "Independent," should it truly bother them? I would challenge both IFB and SBC pastors to perhaps just turn off the social media, focus upon the flock that God gave you, and be the pastor you yourself would like to sit under!

Sometimes it is a good thing when people leave your Church! Where I would place my focus is upon whether the ones who are leaving are the ones who OUGHT to leave and that genuine believers find reason to stay because they are among "God's People" and are being spiritually fed and encouraged! Do not waste your time on the goats and when they leave, be thankful to God for his culling of the herd! If you are faithful to the teaching and preaching of the Word of God, may the Lord direct those who are fleeing all the apostate churches to your doorsteps! Now, if it is the other way around and it is the "Goats" who are sticking around, you would probably want to take some time for self-examination of your ministry focus and direction.

But yeah, I would not celebrate anyone "Leaving the IFB." For what reason would you do so? I am all for people leaving bad churches but I grieve over the fact that they must do so and I pray for these scattered sheep to find a good church home where they may thrive once again.

[HappyChristian]

In our area, people just leave churches of all stripes. lol. Cuz the mountains and the trees are enough "church" for them.  (a wee bit of sarcasm there, but based in complete truth). I've not heard of any celebrating going on when folks leave.

[SureWord]

10 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

In our area, people just leave churches of all stripes. lol. Cuz the mountains and the trees are enough "church" for them.  (a wee bit of sarcasm there, but based in complete truth). I've not heard of any celebrating going on when folks leave.

Yeah, people leave all sorts of churches but for some reason leaving an IFB church gets extra publicity. A lot of times it's like you said they can worship God while hunting, fishing or going to the football game which, of course they never do.

[R Sauter]

11 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

In our area, people just leave churches of all stripes. lol. Cuz the mountains and the trees are enough "church" for them.  (a wee bit of sarcasm there, but based in complete truth). I've not heard of any celebrating going on when folks leave.

I believe the OP is in context with people like Eric Skwarczynski and his "Preacher Boys" podcast which focus their attention upon abuse that takes place in certain IFB Churches. I would say that even he does not take direct hostility towards IFB in general - just towards those who practice abuse and for which I believe the majority of those here would agree with him regarding this.

When I left the IFB movement in 2003, I went to a non-denominational "Bible Church" for a few years where I was welcomed but was also warned not to spread any discontent or express any excessive "vitriol" towards the Church I had left. I was most definitely NOT some "trophy" to this congregation!

I have spoken to countless number of Jehovah False Witnesses who would brag about all of the former Baptists (IFB or otherwise) who had joined the "Kingdom Hall." The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church also love to celebrate the conversion of Evangelical Christians (Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Etc.) into their fold. Same goes for the "Skeptic Crowd" who would most certainly celebrate and parade about former "Christians" who renounce Christ and become atheists.

In such a light, I would never want to be affiliated with those who would celebrate new members who had left the IFB movement. Our Church has several who were formally affiliated with the IFB movement including our Senior Pastor and one of the Elders. Believe me when I say we are all quite "Independent" in our thinking, "Fundamental" in our doctrine and practice, and very much Baptist (with a Capital 'B') in our ecclesiology and polity.

[heartstrings]

Ezekiel 34 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

² Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

³ Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.

⁴ The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

⁵ And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

I can remember one sermon, from a young visiting preacher during the last camp meeting which was held before we left, preaching on giving to people in need outside the church setting, and I thought it was remarkable. Because. 99% of "giving" messages had always seemed to have been about giving to the pastor, or a visiting speaker, or a missionary when one was present. I personally was verbally abused, slandered and even struck on the face by a pastor. The last pastor and pastor's wife tried to set their son up with my daughter. I had already seen how that could turn out so I was cautious. I approved of the young man at first, but I told the pastor, from the beginning, that his son could visit our daughter at our home but she wasn't to visit their son at his. You know, like, the boy is supposed to court the girl? Anyway, they would have nothing of it and tried to bully and manipulate me over this one thing. The pastor finally had his son write my daughter a letter "breaking up" with her. He did so, which told me that the young man wasn't really interested her anyway.

I finally had enough of it and left the church. We visited two churches and the second one we visited, we stayed. l felt the Spirit of the Lord there and sensed we were at the right place. (where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty). No one at that church has mentioned anything about why we left or said anything about it. We had one man who called himself a preacher, visit our new SBC briefly, and confronted me in the foyer one Sunday night about my former church and told me he thought they were "too legalistic". I heard what he said and answered him NOT ONE WORD. I figured he was fishing for more information but he got none from me. I don't think that guy ever came back; proably to sow discord somewhere else.. Still to this day, no one at my church, other than that brief visitor, has enquired to me or mentioned about our leaving the other church. No one has abused us there either. The verses I posted here are concerning Israel, but can apply to God's people in general. . People are people and the principle is the same.  Where we are now, our pastor preaches the word and there is a spirit of love. (he preaches about Hell too)  But no, no celebrating about our leaving, at least not that I have been aware.

 

 

¹⁷ And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

¹⁸ Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?

¹⁹ And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.

²⁰ Therefore thus saith the Lord God unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.

²¹ Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:39 PM by heartstrings

[MikeWatson1]

I think a big thing is people thinking they can have 'church' anyway they like.  So they might leave an IFB church and then join an online ministry and call it their 'church'. 

IFB churches are usually very sure of what a church should be and maybe the person leaving wants to have it their own way.

I cant imagine leaving IFB churches myself.. I dont know of any other kind of church that is as clear about what they believe and why, but I also have never been sure of KJVO.

[heartstrings]

We once had an "Independent Baptist Tabernacle" here not far from where I live. My wife and brotherinlaw visited it once, years ago, and the folks were dancing around, babbling in "tongues" and all that nonsense. Then you have some with Calvinistic doctrine and other various things. I tried to find a good IFB church in my area but was unsuccessful. One of them even had a "pastor" who was divorced and remarried. Our SBC pastor is the "husband of one wife" and his 5 grown and married kids are active in church. He preaches the Gospel/word of God with no Calvinism or any other false doctrine that I've heard. I think I'll stick with that.

[BrotherTony]

4 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

I think a big thing is people thinking they can have 'church' anyway they like.  So they might leave an IFB church and then join an online ministry and call it their 'church'. 

IFB churches are usually very sure of what a church should be and maybe the person leaving wants to have it their own way.

I cant imagine leaving IFB churches myself.. I dont know of any other kind of church that is as clear about what they believe and why, but I also have never been sure of KJVO.

Unless you have ever been in an abusive IFB church or churches you will NEVER understand why someone would leave. I grew up in an abusive IFB church. I loved my pastor and his son, who was my youth pastor for a time. The Gospel was preached, and people were saved on a regular basis, but many things were covered up, especially if it was of a sexual nature. When offences were brought to the pastors attention they were dismissed or passed on to some other church. That was until several people, myself included, told the pastor that we were going to make public the dangers in the church. It was brought to a head when a youth worker and a school teacher were grooming girls, and boys, for sexual liaisons. One of those involved was my high school sweetheart. She finally confided in me. I also had been physically punched by my youth pastor. He grabbed me with one hand around my throat and moved me up the wall and punched me. He told my parents that I deserved it. The reason he did it? I had questioned some of the things going on in the youth group. I wasn't the only one who suffered such things. The school teacher was fired, but the incident was NEVER brought before the church. Neither was the youth worker. 

Thank the Heavenly Father that you've NEVER experienced unchecked pastoral power and abuse.

[Pastor Matt]

Here’s a plot twist to this story. The church that prompted this thread recently had their pastor resign. They have a building but no pastor, and we have a pastor who needs a bigger building. They approached me to ask if we could merge congregations. It's amazing how God works.

[MikeWatson1]

5 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Unless you have ever been in an abusive IFB church or churches you will NEVER understand why someone would leave. I grew up in an abusive IFB church. I loved my pastor and his son, who was my youth pastor for a time. The Gospel was preached, and people were saved on a regular basis, but many things were covered up, especially if it was of a sexual nature. When offences were brought to the pastors attention they were dismissed or passed on to some other church. That was until several people, myself included, told the pastor that we were going to make public the dangers in the church. It was brought to a head when a youth worker and a school teacher were grooming girls, and boys, for sexual liaisons. One of those involved was my high school sweetheart. She finally confided in me. I also had been physically punched by my youth pastor. He grabbed me with one hand around my throat and moved me up the wall and punched me. He told my parents that I deserved it. The reason he did it? I had questioned some of the things going on in the youth group. I wasn't the only one who suffered such things. The school teacher was fired, but the incident was NEVER brought before the church. Neither was the youth worker. 

Thank the Heavenly Father that you've NEVER experienced unchecked pastoral power and abuse.

Yeah, that's real abuse of power. Its true I haven't experienced that kind. What I have seen is when the pastor meets with people during the week to disciple and they get dependent on the pastor.. rather than relying on the Word themselves..so the pastor may go overseas for training..or plant another church.. and those people leave or flounder. 

Sort of like youth going to a big christian conference.. getting hyped... 

They go home buzzed...buzz wears off and they were relying on the feelings rather than the key learning from the conference.