Members kevinmiller Posted August 13, 2008 Members Posted August 13, 2008 First, you must prove that music is ungodly before you can go this direction. Thats wayyy easy. Un Godly Un being the prefix for no and Godly God like in nature. I believe there is nothing godly in rock music therefore all the CCM is ungodly, Jingle Bells a good song is also ungodly. God is not in this music. 1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil Um? :huh:
Members MilkmanDan Posted August 13, 2008 Members Posted August 13, 2008 Sure Kevin. Where in Rock n Roll is God?? If God in fact can be found in Rock n Roll (most CCM is), then why didn't Oliver B Greene or Bro Hyles use Elvis' Gospel songs as a part of their worship service. I think IMHO that they saw th need for sacred music to worship a sacred God and CCM is so far to the left of sacred that its not even in the same zip code. Why would you use something so bad (CCM) to worship God who is so good? Use it if you must under the banner of Christian Liberty. But, you wouldn't catch me using that garbage. :lol
Guest Guest Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 First, you must prove that music is ungodly before you can go this direction. Thats wayyy easy. Un Godly Un being the prefix for no and Godly God like in nature. I believe there is nothing godly in rock music therefore all the CCM is ungodly, Jingle Bells a good song is also ungodly. God is not in this music. 1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. This is so logical and makes much common sense....Bro. Dan. It aligns with God's Holy word in my eyes. :goodpost:
Guest Guest Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 Sure Kevin. Where in Rock n Roll is God?? If God in fact can be found in Rock n Roll (most CCM is), then why didn't Oliver B Greene or Bro Hyles use Elvis' Gospel songs as a part of their worship service. I think IMHO that they saw th need for sacred music to worship a sacred God and CCM is so far to the left of sacred that its not even in the same zip code. Why would you use something so bad (CCM) to worship God who is so good? Use it if you must under the banner of Christian Liberty. But, you wouldn't catch me using that garbage. :lol Wow, this is awesome. It is so sad, too...that Elvis started his youth in a Christian church. :sad So, he basically went from a good boy who sang Gospel...to the "King of Rock-n-Roll." :sad IMO, this was influenced by the world.
Members kevinmiller Posted August 13, 2008 Members Posted August 13, 2008 Where in Rock n Roll is God?? If you're referring to Christian rock, you'll find it in the lyrics. If you're referring to secular rock, you won't find God. You won't find God in a computer game or game of baseball, either. If God in fact can be found in Rock n Roll (most CCM is), then why didn't Oliver B Greene or Bro Hyles use Elvis' Gospel songs as a part of their worship service. That's something you'll have to ask them when you get to Heaven. As for me, what other men do is not my concern one way or the other. I will follow the Bible and God alone, what other men do has no influence on me. Sola Scriptura. :thumb Why would you use something so bad (CCM) to worship God who is so good? Can you show me from Scripture where it's bad?
Members MilkmanDan Posted August 13, 2008 Members Posted August 13, 2008 Deu 7:25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. Deu 7:26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing. First, thank you for responding Kevin. Even though I disagree with what I see as an embrace of liberalism ,on your part, at least you stand by what you say many Christians won't. Good for you Kev. I like what God instructs the Israelites in these passages. He commands the Israelites to take down the false Idols and not to covet the gold or silver in them. I take this as destroy the bad (idols) and forsake the good in them (gold and silver). Because taking the gold or silver would up ensnaring you. Now to use this as a parallel. Lets choose not too seek the good inside the bad. When bands like Jars Of Clay look up to popular secular artists like the Beatles and DC Talk openly slam Fundamentalists. I get sick. I really want to vomit. John Lennon openly denied God and Jesus. It breaks my heart. Why say, "Well you know this rock artist is singing about Jesus so lets just ignore the fact that they are playing rock or hip hop". 1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; I don't know about you Kev but I used to listen to this music. The flesh craves it. I craved it so much I wasted hundreds of dollars in the pursuit thereof. Now I realize I should abstain from it and I do. 1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. Abstain stay away from it. The whole medium of modern or contemporary worship and praise music is inherently evil. The rock and drum beats appeal to the flesh and its desires. Ask yourself am I walking in the lust of the flesh or walking in the Spirit? If were indeed walking in the Spirit why would we even desire to listen to anything other than the good old hymns? These hymns are sacred and set the tone for worship. This contemporary PW music again appeals to the flesh and affects our "feelings". Consider this for just a moment. In our Christian walk we should (IMHO) always place fact first then faith and feelings last. Fact being the word of God we should be a people rooted in the Word Of The Living and True God it should be our first always. Then Faith there are some things in the Bible we may not understand or like, but we must accept them by faith. Lastly, feelings, this should A L W A Y S come last (IMHO) because our heart as it is written:Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? our feelings can decieve us. If we put feelings in front then we can only go down from here. Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Could this be a spiritual death? Are feelings bad? No. But, they must be relegated to their proper place in ones walk. Lastly Sola Scriptura, good job Kev!! We shouldn't trust our preachers entirely. We should be as Bereans and search the scriptures and see for ourselves just what God has to say. Good on ya Kev.
Members kevinmiller Posted August 14, 2008 Members Posted August 14, 2008 I do agree with you that facts should come before feelings and emotions. Facts are unchangeable whereas feelings can change with a change in the situation. That is why we have God's Word to stand upon. But when we get down to the issue of rock music or any kind of music that has a drum beat in it, where do we derive these facts that say that this style is evil? I don't want to get hung up on any artists or bands but just get right to the issue of the music itself.
Members MilkmanDan Posted August 14, 2008 Members Posted August 14, 2008 That drum beat really has a huge effect on you H U G E!! It goes right to the heart and the mind. Best example I could give is this. I was big into NOFX, Slayer, Metallica and all their satanic ilk. I loved the way the drums really got you pumped up. If I heard Dead Skin Mask or War Ensemble by Slayer or Vincent By NOFX, I wanted naturally to wave my fist in the air and get angry with "The Man". I felt as though I could do anything. Guitars helped further cement the effect yes. But the drums were it. I thought Dave Lombardo from Slayer and Smelly from NOFX were 2 of the best drummers in the world. They really helped paint a picture and my feelings followed. Its almost hypnotic. You would want to beat people up and dance and uggghhhh........ I said all that to say this. I felt the same way when I listened to CCM. I tried to justify this feeling by using the old excuse of "Well they do say Jesus every now and then". I knew I had a veil over my eyes and I got rid of it A L L!! Now yes I do feel something when I do sing the hymns at Church. BUT, and this is the all important but, I feel this feelings when I read the scripturally accurate hymns. These old hymns honor and exalt Jesus and remind me of my pitiful state in light of the awesome God we serve. Most of that CCM garbage isn't even scripturally accurate and is in fact contrary to the Word of God!!
Guest Guest Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 BUT IS GOD PLEASED WITH A ZEAL THAT IS BASED ON DISOBEDIENCE, THAT IS FORMED FROM A LACK OF SEPARATION FROM THE WORLD? Wordliness does not please Him - God doesn't care about how much zeal you have if it isn't in line with His Word. So your theology is based on your experience (ie. subjective), rather than on God's Word (objective). It is based on your feelings - it feels good, must be right. Oh they are excited, must be totally devoted to God and close to Him. There are a lot of zealous people that are religious - that even proclaim to know and love Jesus, but this is what He says to some of them: Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Sorry, but once saved always saved is what I believe. Tank Did you see that last part? That is referring to those who profess to know Jesus BUT IGNORE HIS WORD, IGNORE HIS COMMANDS. Seems like God has a different view on this issue than you do. What pleases and impresses you does not please and impress Him. Once again should we stop shopping at Wal-Mart, wearing hats of anykind, dressing like a lawyer, buying gas, using the Internet, etc.... How come it is only music that people separate themselves from why not separate yourself from everything "worldly" if you take such a stance on CCM. There have been many false statements about CCM listed in many posts people assume they know but do not know only assume. I guess I am assuming some of you do the "worldly" activities listed in the first sentence. HMMMMM What to do The argument that CCM makes you fall down is no worse than the preacher preaching about beer with a former beer drinker in the pew. (Might make him want to go crack one open.)
Members Jerry Posted August 14, 2008 Members Posted August 14, 2008 Looks like you got some problems there, Tank. You can't define worldliness - YET God commands you not to be worldly. Hm, guess you don't have too much of a heart for obeying the Word of God if you are too busy trying to explain away His commands!Sorry, but once saved always saved is what I believe. So do I. My point was, just because someone says they are saved, that they love Jesus, and are serving Him/worshipping Him with all their heart - doesn't mean they are. Does their profession line up with the Word of God? Does their life?
Guest Guest Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 I think most of us can agree that the roots of the rock music are evil, but what about other genres like dance, pop, classical music? It's clear that other types are not associated with rock. And what sort of secular music would be acceptable for a born-again believer?
Members trc123 Posted August 14, 2008 Members Posted August 14, 2008 I think most of us can agree that the roots of the rock music are evil' date=' but what about other genres like dance, pop, classical music? It's clear that other types are not associated with rock. And what sort of secular music would be acceptable for a born-again believer?[/quote'] Many of those forms of music were the "music of the day" the same as our music of the day and did certainly have roots starting with non-believers as well. That is why this subject is difficult to nail down for many Christians. Some subscribe to the all or nothing approach, other's allow a Pastor to control their lives concerning these matters and still some look to the Scriptures and prayerfully seek God's face and the Holy Spirit's direction for his will in their lives. This will always be debated among the body of believers until the Lord Jesus Christ comes. I doubt it will be settled here. Each person will have to give that account to his own master.
Guest Guest Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Looks like you got some problems there, Tank. You can't define worldliness - YET God commands you not to be worldly. Hm, guess you don't have too much of a heart for obeying the Word of God if you are too busy trying to explain away His commands! So do I. My point was, just because someone says they are saved, that they love Jesus, and are serving Him/worshipping Him with all their heart - doesn't mean they are. Does their profession line up with the Word of God? Does their life? You can be born again and not Through you I will never learn or enjoy Gods word or debate things in an environment that is conducive to learning. Everything is constantly tore down by you Jerry and you find faults in what most everyone writes on these boards. You might have a lot of head knowledge but on these boards you show very little heart knowledge. Tank My point is it is not anyones place to say CCM is wrong for another Christian. If you do not want to listen to it then do not it is your choice. I believe in my heart spoken to and nudged by the Holy Spirit that it is not wrong. That is where I stand if you choose to not listen to it great I choose to. In turn, that does not mean I do not have a heart for obeying the Word of God it means the opposite because I have searched for his guidance in this matter in HIS word and HIS Spirit. Tank
Members bambohs Posted August 15, 2008 Members Posted August 15, 2008 Looks like you got some problems there, Tank. You can't define worldliness - YET God commands you not to be worldly. Hm, guess you don't have too much of a heart for obeying the Word of God if you are too busy trying to explain away His commands! So do I. My point was, just because someone says they are saved, that they love Jesus, and are serving Him/worshipping Him with all their heart - doesn't mean they are. Does their profession line up with the Word of God? Does their life? Now we're getting somewhere! Bro. Jerry, could you please go ahead and define worldliness for Tank and others? I do have a tough time delineating exactly which lyrics and instruments cross the line, and which articles of clothing, hair length, food, drinks, restaurants, retail stores, publishing companies, etc. are out of line with God's Word. It would be good if you can address one of Tank's questions about the day-to-day activities we engage in right along side the vilest of sinners, and how we should change that behavior. This isn't meant as a joke. This is a subject that I am trying to understand with an open mind. "I'll know sin when I see it" just doesn't seem to answer the question about living in the world, but not of the world. Blessings, Gary
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