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What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

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During my Bible reading this morining, I came across these verses and thought,"How fitting."

Matthew 7:20-23 (Jesus speaking):

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What is the biggest argument in support of CCM? Christian words. "We put the name of Jesus in our songs...." ...AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?

I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

This line of reasoning only works under the assumption that CCM is bad to begin with. Just like if I though that John R. Rice was an ungodly man, I could say the same thing. "Just because he claimed the name of Christ in his sermons doesn't mean that he was saved."

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Most of your other posts were just stabbing in the wind. It's typical anti-CCM rhetoric, singling out a few not-very-Christian artists(Michael W. Smith and Amy Grant are always used as examples) and pretending like they represent all CCM. It focuses on the fact that these artists don't really care about a ministry and don't truly praise God in their lyrics. They never address the music itself, not in Scriptural terms, anyway. They just make a vague connection between the music and those artists who are in it for the fame and money. That's leaving out good artists like Michael Card and Casting Crowns and even many MercyMe songs where the entire focus of every song is to praise God and talk about His character. Artists who see their music as a ministry are completely ignored.

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Again we come back to the problem of too much being broadly labeled as CCM. Is a Christian song that's been written in the last 100 years automatically CCM? Do songs by the Getty's really belong in the same category as songs by Toby Mac?

CCM, as an industry, has been taken over by profiteers just like Southern Gospel and Country music have been. In each of these cases (not saying all of these were once perfect and wholesome) once the outsiders took over major changes occured and all for the sake of money.

Some artists in each of these categories have willingly sold out to the new handlers in those industries. Some have fought this and unless they already had a sizable fan base they have been squeezed out of the "mainstream" of these industries. Naturally, under such conditions many who otherwise wouldn't even be considered in these categories come running for the sake of money. Groups that once wouldn't have been considered country or Southern Gospel (for example) are now welcomed with open arms because they can draw crowds and generate money.

All that said, there are still contemporary artists and groups out there who put forth Christ honoring music regardless of what category their music gets lumped into.

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Do songs by the Getty's really belong in the same category as songs by Toby Mac?


No, sir. Toby Mac is a premier recording artist. I love his latest, though...

*I don't wanna gain the whole world and lose my soul...* :thumb

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This line of reasoning only works under the assumption that CCM is bad to begin with. Just like if I though that John R. Rice was an ungodly man' date=' I could say the same thing. "Just because he claimed the name of Christ in his sermons doesn't mean that he was saved."[/quote']

Your line of reasoning works except for "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Shall we compare the fruits of John R. Rice and ANY CCM artists of today? No comparison.


Another thing that bothers me about "Christian" rock is the origin of rock music. Rock music didn't originate in the church. Rock musicians didn't take Christian music and tweak it into a new style of music. Rock is wholly and completely a product of the world: the same world we are COMMANDED to be separated from.
Rock music targets the physical man, the flesh. Christians are supposed to resist the urges of the flesh. We are at war with it continually. Why would someone fighting a war provide ammunition to their enemy?

When someone is truly born again, the Bible says the Lord puts a NEW song in their mouth. Not the same song with different words.

The fact of the matter is Rock music is FLESH. You can label it "Christian" all you want to, but that doesn't change its nature--it is still flesh. It's like taking strychnine (rock music) and adding sweet chocolate (Christian words, Jesus) to it. You can eat if you want to, but I'll just take the chocolate I know to be pure.

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If rock music was NOT fleshly ? the lost world would not "love" it! The Bible is very clear ? the "natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God. . . neither can he know them." ! If rock music was SPIRITUAL ? the world would "hate" it! If Jars of Clay, Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, dc Talk, et al had any real spiritual message, MTV, Billboard, VH-1, would NOT "receive" their songs and videos! They would NOT praise and play their music! Not according to God in 1 Corinthians 2:14!

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

As I said before, if it is attractive to the world, it is probably not God pleasing. The Gospel is not pleasing to the world. Who wants to give up living however they want to? Who wants to repent from their worldly ways. Where in the Bible did Jesus, the Apostles, or even the prophets of old water down the message of God to be more suitable to the world in order to attract the world? If a person doesn't want to accept God for who He is, God isn't going to change for that person. God and His message won't become world-like to attract the sons of the devil.

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Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "Amazing Grace" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "Love Lifted Me" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "Victory in Jesus" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "He Lives" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "It Is Well With My Sould" is pleasing to God?


Why is there no thread titled "What's wrong with the songs in the Hymn book?"

The fact that CCM is even questionable is enough for me to stick to the tried and true music of our ancestors. We sang a sond written by Martin Luther in 1524 this Sunday in Church. While the IFBC doesn't promote all Martin Luther stood for, I can guarantee you that the songs he wrote from his experiences under true persecution are more pleasing to God than any CCM artists' songs.

Music is Satan's specialty. If someone started singing "All Praise to Thee Eternal God" acapella at an MTV Awards show, or singing "The Altar and the Door"--which one would get the crowd going? To be honest, I don't know much about Casting Crowns. My brother in law says some of their music sounds like a rock band he used to listen to called Nickleback (with Christian words, of course).

In my opinion, if you want to listen to Rock music, listen to the real thing. Don't drag the name of my Lord and Saviour through the worldly mud of rock music. If you're going to be semi-worldly, you might as well go all the way without blaspheming the name of Christ by speaking (or singing) His name with rock music as the backdrop.

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God is a SPIRIT.

"God is a SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in SPIRIT and in truth." John 4:24

"Now the Lord is that SPIRIT:. . ." 2 Cor 3:17

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the FLESH, but after the SPIRIT." Romans 8:1

God's salvation and methods are SPIRIT.

"It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the FLESH profiteth nothing:. . ." John 6:64

"Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his SPIRIT." 1 John 4:13

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5

"But God hath revealed them unto us by his SPIRIT:. . ." 1 Cor. 2:10

God's music is spiritual not fleshly.

". . . I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."(1 Cor. 14:15)
" . . . be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-19
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." Colossians 3:16
The SPIRIT and the FLESH are contrary, opposite, enemies.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:5-8

"For the FLESH lusteth against the SPIRIT, and the SPIRIT against the FLESH: and these are contrary the one to the other:. . ." Galatians 5: 16

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the FLESH." Philippians 3:3

God is against the FLESH.

Not only is the SPIRIT contrary to the FLESH, but God is AGAINST the FLESH.

"So then they that are in the FLESH cannot please God." Romans 8:8

"That no FLESH should glory in his presence." 1 Cor. 1:29

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the FLESH with the affections and lusts." Galatians 5:24

So let's add this up . . .

Rock music (any rock music) is FLESH
God is SPIRIT.
God's salvation and methods are SPIRIT.
The SPIRIT and the FLESH are contrary, opposite.
God is against the FLESH.
How can anyone, who understands simple Bible verses, honestly "justify" rock music as a "tool for reaching people" for Jesus Christ? How can the "seeds" of FLESH grow "fruits" of the SPIRIT?

THEY CANNOT . . . IT IS NOT POSSIBLE!

Here's the testimony of Lowell Hart, a former rock musician:

"Rock, rhythm and blues, jazz, pop tunes, Bossa Nova, etc. are all products of the world. These [CCM] musicians are taking the fleshly and are saying, in effect, 'We are going to appeal to the spiritual.' It cannot be done. It is neither logical nor scriptural. This is typical of the contemporary Christian music approach today."

And ANYONE who thinks they can "sow" to the FLESH and "reap" SPIRITUAL fruits according to God - they are DECEIVED! According to God ? a Christian who claims they are using "flesh" [rock music] to bring forth "spiritual" [new birth, salvation] ? they are "MOCKING GOD" ? and calling God a LIAR, according to Galatians 6:7.8! Read it!

Be not DECEIVED God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his FLESH of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the SPIRIT of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Galatians 6:7,8
Could God possibly make it plainer? Only a disobedient, carnal, backslidde, Christian who will NOT submit to the word of God would justify fleshly, rock music as a "tool" to bring forth the spiritual, new-birth! It is NOT possible!

And ANYONE who thinks they can "sow" to the FLESH and "reap" SPIRITUAL fruits according to God - they are deceived!

"Be not DECEIVED God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his FLESH of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the SPIRIT of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Galatians 6:7,8

The Lord says in Romans 13:14 - "make not provision for the flesh".

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." Romans 13:14

And yet, CCM takes just the opposite approach! They "parade" and "flaunt" the flesh ? and "make not provision for the Lord Jesus Christ". Their dress, their long hair, their earrings on males, their "hip" speech, their album covers, their videos ? nearly everything about CCM ? copies, imitates and glorifies the FLESH.

The apostle Paul, addresses this "FLESH = SPIRITUAL" error in Galatians:

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the SPIRIT, are ye now made perfect by the FLESH?" Galatians 3:3

2 Peter 2 warns against "false prophets . . .who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even DENYING THE LORD [as CCM does] that bought them" ? and verse 18 gives their "bait" ? EXACTLY AS CCM ? "they allure through the LUSTS of the FLESH"!

For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the FLESH, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 2 Peter 2:18


I AM BACKING MY VIEWS WITH THE WORD OF GOD. IF ANYONE CAN SHOW ME IN THE WORD OF GOD, SCRIPTURES PLEASE, THAT ROCK MUSIC IS SOMEHOW PLEASING TO GOD AND THE FLESH PLEASE DO.

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No, sir. Toby Mac is a premier recording artist. I love his latest, though...

*I don't wanna gain the whole world and lose my soul...* :thumb


Well, the actual point being that their styles and music is so very different yet these and so many other varied artists are lumped together under this huge umbrella known as CCM.

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Just because the world loves some aspect of something doesn't mean it's automatically something evil.

Much of the world loves Amazing Grace even while there is much of the world that doesn't like rock style music. Many Christians love classical music and so does much of the world. Many Christians love piano music and so does much of the world.

There are many arguments about the songs in hymnals...which is why there are so many different hymnals with so many different hymns.

With many CCM groups/artists, there are many obviously biblical points to bring up against them (covered in "Christian" tattoos, body piercings, immodest dress, unbiblical hair, displaying rebellious attitudes, lack of walking in the Spirit, etc.) why weaken ones position by tossing in attacks that can't stand up to scrutiny?

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2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.



Classical music isn't Christian either but I'm sure you wouldn't condemn it.

What is the origin of so called "Christian" music? It has it's origins in many different styles of music that developed over time. Music cannot be Christian or non Christian based simply on the melody, harmony or rhythm.


How is rock music a lust of the flesh?

Singing a "new" song had nothing to do with a new style of music and is an absurd way to misinterpret the verse.

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If rock music was NOT fleshly ? the lost world would not "love" it! The Bible is very clear ? the "natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God. . . neither can he know them." ! If rock music was SPIRITUAL ? the world would "hate" it! If Jars of Clay, Amy Grant, Michael W. Smith, dc Talk, et al had any real spiritual message, MTV, Billboard, VH-1, would NOT "receive" their songs and videos! They would NOT praise and play their music! Not according to God in 1 Corinthians 2:14!

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

As I said before, if it is attractive to the world, it is probably not God pleasing. The Gospel is not pleasing to the world. Who wants to give up living however they want to? Who wants to repent from their worldly ways. Where in the Bible did Jesus, the Apostles, or even the prophets of old water down the message of God to be more suitable to the world in order to attract the world? If a person doesn't want to accept God for who He is, God isn't going to change for that person. God and His message won't become world-like to attract the sons of the devil.

There are a bunch of people that love the sweater I'm wearing. Yikes, better throw it out! :eek

Read some Casting Crowns lyrics, it's not geared towards the world and their lyrics aren't watered down. Casting Crown music is designed for Christians, not the unsaved.

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Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "Amazing Grace" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "Love Lifted Me" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "Victory in Jesus" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "He Lives" is pleasing to God?

Why aren't we arguing over whether or not "It Is Well With My Sould" is pleasing to God?


Why is there no thread titled "What's wrong with the songs in the Hymn book?"

The fact that CCM is even questionable is enough for me to stick to the tried and true music of our ancestors. We sang a sond written by Martin Luther in 1524 this Sunday in Church. While the IFBC doesn't promote all Martin Luther stood for, I can guarantee you that the songs he wrote from his experiences under true persecution are more pleasing to God than any CCM artists' songs.

Music is Satan's specialty. If someone started singing "All Praise to Thee Eternal God" acapella at an MTV Awards show, or singing "The Altar and the Door"--which one would get the crowd going? To be honest, I don't know much about Casting Crowns. My brother in law says some of their music sounds like a rock band he used to listen to called Nickleback (with Christian words, of course).

In my opinion, if you want to listen to Rock music, listen to the real thing. Don't drag the name of my Lord and Saviour through the worldly mud of rock music. If you're going to be semi-worldly, you might as well go all the way without blaspheming the name of Christ by speaking (or singing) His name with rock music as the backdrop.

There is a lot of debate about the KJV, a LOT. Therefore, according to your reasoning, there must be something wrong with that stand.

Casting Crowns would not be invited, nor would they accept to sing at the MTV awards so it's a moot point. I listen to secular music if the lyrics are not offensive. Not everything has to be Christian. We watch secular movies and I think few here would argue that watching a clean familiy film is wrong, despite having nothing to do with Christianity.

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Your last post was completely based on two things: (1)Rock music is fleshly(a lust of the flesh), which you still need to prove and (2) music is only ever used to worship God, when it's not. It can also be used to praise God or just for enjoyment.

You also make the claim that rock music can never produce fruit when used as a witnessing tool, implying that non-rock music can. The fact is, the Bible never mentions music as a tool for ministry at all. To use it as a primary worship tool is extra-Biblical to begin with(not that that makes it wrong) but it can't be used as an argument against rock music.


And yet, CCM takes just the opposite approach! They "parade" and "flaunt" the flesh ? and "make not provision for the Lord Jesus Christ". Their dress, their long hair, their earrings on males, their "hip" speech, their album covers, their videos ? nearly everything about CCM ? copies, imitates and glorifies the FLESH.
casting-crowns.jpg
Can you tell me what's wrong with their dress and appearance?

I AM BACKING MY VIEWS WITH THE WORD OF GOD. IF ANYONE CAN SHOW ME IN THE WORD OF GOD, SCRIPTURES PLEASE, THAT ROCK MUSIC IS SOMEHOW PLEASING TO GOD AND THE FLESH PLEASE DO.

You posted verses about the flesh and being deceived by false prophets. Those are all based on the assumption that your position is right to begin with and is totally irrlelevant for proving that there is something wrong with CCM since you can't find a verse in Scripture that says so. I don't need to show that rock music pleases God because music is a medium as much as videos and movies are. The Bible doesn't mention either. Since you are saying it's wrong, you are the one who has to show me where the Bible says that a drum beat in music is wrong.

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Kevin, you honestly don't see rock music as fleshly? The term itself was popularized by DJ Alan Freed and it was coined in the Jazz and Blues genre in 1922 by Trixie Smith in the song "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll". Oh, and the word "Jazz" is an African word for sexual intercourse.

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Kevin, you honestly don't see rock music as fleshly? The term itself was popularized by DJ Alan Freed and it was coined in the Jazz and Blues genre in 1922 by Trixie Smith in the song "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll". Oh, and the word "Jazz" is an African word for sexual intercourse.

Since no one has defined what is fleshly, Biblically, I can't say one way or the other. If you mean it makes your body feel good, then yeah it's fleshly, but so is a hot shower.

I'm afraid you are only repeating what the anti-CCM people have twisted to give themselves an argument to stand on. Take a look at the actual origins of the names here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_rock_and_roll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_(word)

Wow, the term "rock and roll" originated in a Christian song? That means we can all sing rock and roll because it originated amongst Christians, right? That makes about as much sense as saying that, since it means having sex, we should listen to anything with drums, doesn't it?

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Kevin' date=' you honestly don't see rock music as fleshly? The term itself was popularized by DJ Alan Freed and it was coined in the Jazz and Blues genre in 1922 by Trixie Smith in the song "My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll". Oh, and the word "Jazz" is an African word for sexual intercourse.[/quote']

That's it! Blame the Africans! Them and their evil witch-doctor ways. The whole continent of black drummers exists only for the ruin of our great, White Christian nation.

Give me a break.

What does the word "Roger" mean in England? Guess my friend will have to change his name, or I'll no longer be able to associate with him since I want to avoid the appearance of evil.

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Wow' date=' the term "rock and roll" originated in a Christian song? That means we can all sing rock and roll because it originated amongst Christians, right?[/quote']

If anything your comment is an argument that all songs labeled as "Christian" songs are not pleasing to God.


And your not repeating what the CCM people have said and twisted? Maybe you should be a little more open minded about other peoples views. :lol:

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Either way, it doesn't make sense. :wink

I'm not repeating anything from anyone. I've only ever heard arguments against CCM growing up. I've heard very very few arguments pushing CCM. I'm just pointing out the clear weaknesses in the arguments. :smile

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Either way' date=' it doesn't make sense.[/quote']

Your an honest man, you admitted that your argument does not make any sense either. :lol:

I guess there is no point in continuing a thread where the posters are posting arguments that does not make sense to them.

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