Gasoline grumbling thread

[Guest Guest]

Since when are "spoils of war" stealing? Does that mean that although God said "thou shalt not steal" that he made His people steal when He told them to take the spoils of war?

[Anon]

Since when are "spoils of war" stealing? Does that mean that although God said "thou shalt not steal" that he made His people steal when He told them to take the spoils of war?

There were times He gave them permission, and other times He did not. To say the Bible is a pattern to follow of taking spoils of war is to seriously take it out of context, especially here in the age of NT Christianity.

[JerryNumbers]

Since when are "spoils of war" stealing? Does that mean that although God said "thou shalt not steal" that he made His people steal when He told them to take the spoils of war?

Remember, "GRACE."

Do unto others as you which them to do unto you.

Love your enemies.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matt 5:44-48 (KJV)

If you conquer them, them take everything they have, is that really being loving towards them.

I don't feel the least bit that what Abraham did in the old days is the proper example for us to follow under grace. And I am not saying that Abram did the wrong thing.


14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:14-19 (KJV)

[HappyChristian]

Okay. I remember everything that you mentioned, except the idea of lower gas prices (I heard it mentioned by news people and others, but don't remember it coming from the administration, that's why I was wondering!)

I don't think we can claim spoils of war from Iraq - we werent' going in to subjugate them, which is usually what is required for spoils. Remember Jericho - no spoils were allowed, and Israel was cursed because Achan saw, coveted and took.

We are not at war with the Iraqui people, per se. And if we were to take spoils from them, it would be exactly the opposite of what we are trying to do there - rid them of a common enemy and help them to rebuild (which, by the way, is happening well...isn't it interesting that the news media isn't talking about it?).

[JerryNumbers]

They do not want to say one good thing about our president. In fact they would rather things go very bad in Iraq.

[HappyChristian]

In fact they would rather things go very bad in Iraq.

Makes for more sensational news that way.

[Palatka51]

Everybody should just take a 3 day sick day on the same day. Stay off the highways, stay away from the supermarkets and malls then sit back and see just how quickly we get the attention of the movers and shakers of our society. Think of it, three days of no factory running, no store selling and no gasoline being bought. Somebody would get the message that we have had enough.

Well hey, these tactics worked for MLK,Jr.

[Anon]

Honestly if we could arrange it, it would work. You can't get fired for taking three days off if everyone else in the country does it, too!

[IM4given]

why not find alternative transportation to get to work?

[John81]

why not find alternative transportation to get to work?

There is no alternative transporation in this rural area.

[tired]

I was watching the news today and some foundation had some contest to make the best car that could get the best gas miliage and here it is...http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1033/69/. I bet the oil companies have already sent hitmen to take these guys out. :lol

[IM4given]

Beyond gasoline: Prices surge for oil-based goods
By Ron Scherer
Thu Jun 5, 4:00 AM ET

New York - Besides gasoline, the Department of Energy calculates, there are 57 major uses of petroleum ? everything from cosmetics to ballpoint pens, nylons, and even the waxes in chewing gum.

That is why the effect of high oil prices is now spreading well beyond the pump, where gasoline hit another record price of $3.98 a gallon on Wednesday. Now, consumers will have to brace themselves for other higher costs, since businesses such as Kimberly-Clark, Procter & Gamble, and Colgate-Palmolive are raising prices on their products to recoup energy costs.

In brief, this means less money in consumers' pockets in the months ahead. But it also goes beyond consumers. For example, the price of asphalt is up 65 percent so far this year ? and municipalities' and states' road departments are cutting back. This may mean bumpier roads ahead.

"Not quite half of what we consume is energy, food, and other commodities that are significantly affected by the rising cost of petroleum," says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com.

On a year-over-year basis, energy prices are up 15.5 percent. Much of the most recent surge in oil prices has yet to be factored into consumer prices. But anecdotal signs are emerging that companies can no longer absorb the higher energy costs.

Last week, for example, Dow Chemical announced a 20 percent across-the-board price increase on its products, which range from antifreeze to cleaning fluids to pharmaceuticals.

Similar moves are expected. "It's just the tip of the iceberg," says Ann Paulins, director of the School of Human and Consumer Sciences at Ohio University in Athens. "The retailers can't absorb it all."

Groceries
That sentiment is echoed by Wegmans, a grocery chain based in Rochester, N.Y., that normally tries to keep price increases to a minimum. Now, however, prices are rising on nearly every shelf.

"We're talking increased raw materials, packaging, transportation, the whole ball of wax," says Jo Natale, a spokeswoman. "We have tried to absorb as many increases as possible to remain competitive, but we have reached the point where retail prices have to go up."

Late this spring, the CEOs of some major consumer-products companies also said they had to start to recoup higher energy costs.

"Through the retailer, they have to pass on to consumers their higher costs," says Ali Dibadj, a securities analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein and Co. in New York. "The price increases are ranging from 4 to 6 to 10 percent."

On April 30, Clayton Daley, chief financial officer of Procter & Gamble, told securities analysts that the company expects to incur about $1.4 billion in higher energy costs this year.

Between May and August, he said, the company would raise prices 4.5 percent on Always and Tampax products, 7 percent on Crest Pro-Health Rinse, 6 percent on Dawn, 8 percent on Swiffer refills, and 11 percent on Oral-B power brushes and refills.

One day later, Larry Peiros, chief operating officer of Clorox, told securities analysts that the company had already raised prices on a number of brands. It had already announced a 13 percent price increase in May on Pine-Sol cleaner.

Later in May, Kimberly-Clark, which makes diapers under the brand name Huggies, said it is increasing prices by 6 to 8 percent from mid-July to late August. The company already increased prices by 4 to 7 percent in February.

On the streets of New York, a mother, Rachel, pushes her two children Daisy and Dillon in a tandem stroller. She thinks some of the companies are reducing the number of diapers in each box, even if the price is not rising. "Everything is going up," she moans.

Even if the prices are not up now, some consumers expect them to rise soon. That's the case with Marc and Silke Lugert of Ottawa, as they push 1-year-old Marla in her stroller around Columbus Circle in New York. "In the next six months, prices will rise," says Mr. Lugert as he holds the hand of his other daughter, 4-year-old Paula.

It's not just the grocery shelves being affected by rising energy costs. To find other price hikes, one need look no further than the road.

Asphalt
The price of asphalt, according to contractors, is up about 65 percent so far this year. Another 10 percent price increase is expected in the next two to three weeks.

The paving material is rising in price in large part because liquid asphalt comes directly from crude oil that's been refined. Asphalt is what is left over after the refiners have made gasoline, kerosene, and other products. It is dense and dirty.

The asphalt business has undergone some changes as the price of oil, as well as diesel, has increased. A growing number of refiners are adding special units that can refine this dense oil into diesel and jet fuel. At the same time, refiners are selling more low-grade oil to ocean freight companies, whose business is booming as US exports rise. The end result: more competition for less supply.

"They are talking shortages in Minnesota," says Steve Hall, CEO of Hardrives Inc., a contractor in Minneapolis. The situation has become so uncertain that asphalt suppliers won't quote prices yet for next year.

State contracts
States are reacting to the higher prices, highway contractors say, by reducing the number of jobs that had been planned. "They are trying to stretch their dollars as much as they can," says Patrick Nelson, special projects manager at Lehman-Roberts Co. in Memphis, Tenn.

Mr. Nelson's company has only one state job to bid on in Tennessee as its Department of Transportation has cut back, he says. If his company bids on the project, he says, it will include an escalation clause to pass on the rising prices.

To stretch dollars, Nelson says, states are resorting to thinner pothole patches and "micro-seals" that wear out faster. "It will catch up with the states," he says.

[5dumplings@home]

I just paid $4.21 a gallon for regular...ethanol added gas. Therefore, I get about 16 miles per gallon if I'm lucky.

Grrr....I told the attendant to stop filling my tank when it hit $70!!

[John81]

Gas dropped 10 cents here yesterday; it's now $3.99. That probably means a big jump is coming because for the past couple of years any time they lower prices, especially more than just a penny or two, a sizable jump occurs.

[JerryNumbers]

I just paid $4.21 a gallon for regular...ethanol added gas. Therefore, I get about 16 miles per gallon if I'm lucky.

Grrr....I told the attendant to stop filling my tank when it hit $70!!

The most expensive vehicle to operate, per mile, is the shopping cart.