Holy Spirit baptism

[Napsterdad]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

Excuse me, Tony, but I was very curtious, unlike you, once again, with your judgmental spirit. I said, "You might have made a typo" and then took the time to show the difference in case he had no idea what I had been on about. After all, Jim had said "Secessionism has nothing to do with it," when successionism has much to do with the topic.

You may have made a typo, but there is no such word as curtious. However, assuming this may not be the case here is a 'cut & paste' from Merriam-Webster

Courteous - Adjective

cour·te-ous - ˈkər-tē-əs

1. marked by polished manners, gallantry, or ceremonial usage of a court

2. marked by respect for and consideration of others

courteously - adverb

courteousness – noun

Synonyms

• civil

• genteel

• gracious

• mannerly

• polite

• well-bred

Choose the Right Synonym for courteous

CIVIL, POLITE, COURTEOUS, GALLANT, CHIVALROUS mean observant of the forms required by good breeding.

CIVIL often suggests little more than the avoidance of overt rudeness.

owed the questioner a civil reply

POLITE commonly implies polish of speech and manners and sometimes suggests an absence of cordiality.

if you can't be pleasant, at least be polite

COURTEOUS implies more actively considerate or dignified politeness.

clerks who were unfailingly courteous to customers

GALLANT and CHIVALROUS imply courteous attentiveness especially to women.

GALLANT suggests spirited and dashing behavior and ornate expressions of courtesy.

a gallant suitor of the old school

CHIVALROUS suggests high-minded and self-sacrificing behavior.

a chivalrous display of duty

Example Sentences

There was no doubt that his stubbornly held and trenchantly expressed views—his trenchancy always tempered, however, by his gently courteous manner—contributed significantly to his unpopularity …—Simon Winchester, The Man Who Loved China, 2008

… she has seen generations of boys come and go, some well groomed and courteous, others rough and uppity …—Julian Barnes, New Yorker, 5 Mar. 1990

He joined us in the Yellow Room with … his son, a thoughtful, courteous, nice doctor …—Lady Bird Johnson 27 May 1964, in A White House Diary,  1970

The clerks were helpful and courteous.their customer service department always gives courteous responses, even to rude people

 

You're welcome! 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Napsterdad

[BrotherTony]

52 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

Excuse me, Tony, but I was very curtious, unlike you, once again, with your judgmental spirit. I said, "You might have made a typo" and then took the time to show the difference in case he had no idea what I had been on about. After all, Jim had said "Secessionism has nothing to do with it," when successionism has much to do with the topic.

Your are constantly trying to play the victim. All I asked about was why all the bloviating over a typo. You're still bloviating. And just like trying to correct an administrator over a typo, which is "judgemental" in and of itself, you're being judgemental of me and are trying to come off looking like a poor, wounded soul. People here aren't buying your act... this dishing it out and not being able to take it..

[Jim_Alaska]

Just for clarification, my usage of this phrase: "Secessionism has nothing to do with it," Was meant in the context of having nothing to do with my personal beliefs, not that it may have credence with others.

I believe what I believe because of biblically example and scriptural truth, which many Baptists have also held to for centuries.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

7 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

 

You are reading your view of church authority into the text, which simply says Jesus addressed "the eleven disciples." The author, Matthew, who was one of the eleven, did not write that Jesus addressed His "apostles," though they were that too, and, as such, would spearhead church growth, or that He addressed them as the leaders if the church, which they were, but simply "the eleven disciples." Furthermore, in the capacity of disciples, they were given a command that did not require new disciples be connected to them, or their church, even though though they would inevitably be connected to both, but solely to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Consider also that the individuals Peter and Philip had baptized were not baptized into the Jerusalem church, or any local church for that matter. The eunuch went on his way to Ethiopia as a member of the entire church that Jesus had instituted and was building. 

It's not a false assumption to say, "Most commands given in a group context are intended for the individuals in the group to be obedient to. The command to baptize is no different." Nor does it "indicate that Jesus never gave any commands to individuals in church capacity" as you say. 

[TheGloryLand]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

You are reading your view of church authority into the text, which simply says Jesus addressed "the eleven disciples." The author, Matthew, who was one of the eleven, did not write that Jesus addressed His "apostles," though they were that too, and, as such, would spearhead church growth, or that He addressed them as the leaders if the church, which they were, but simply "the eleven disciples." Furthermore, in the capacity of disciples, they were given a command that did not require new disciples be connected to them, or their church, even though though they would inevitably be connected to both, but solely to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Consider also that the individuals Peter and Philip had baptized were not baptized into the Jerusalem church, or any local church for that matter. The eunuch went on his way to Ethiopia as a member of the entire church that Jesus had instituted and was building. 

It's not a false assumption to say, "Most commands given in a group context are intended for the individuals in the group to be obedient to. The command to baptize is no different." Nor does it "indicate that Jesus never gave any commands to individuals in church capacity" as you say. 

You’re confusing me, with these command DR. What the differences, if was a command or a request. He still the boss.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

1 hour ago, Napsterdad said:

You may have made a typo, but there is no such word as curtious. However, assuming this may not be the case here is a 'cut & paste' from Merriam-Webster

Courteous - Adjective

cour·te-ous - ˈkər-tē-əs

1. marked by polished manners, gallantry, or ceremonial usage of a court

2. marked by respect for and consideration of others

courteously - adverb

courteousness – noun

Synonyms

• civil

• genteel

• gracious

• mannerly

• polite

• well-bred

Choose the Right Synonym for courteous

CIVIL, POLITE, COURTEOUS, GALLANT, CHIVALROUS mean observant of the forms required by good breeding.

CIVIL often suggests little more than the avoidance of overt rudeness.

owed the questioner a civil reply

POLITE commonly implies polish of speech and manners and sometimes suggests an absence of cordiality.

if you can't be pleasant, at least be polite

COURTEOUS implies more actively considerate or dignified politeness.

clerks who were unfailingly courteous to customers

GALLANT and CHIVALROUS imply courteous attentiveness especially to women.

GALLANT suggests spirited and dashing behavior and ornate expressions of courtesy.

a gallant suitor of the old school

CHIVALROUS suggests high-minded and self-sacrificing behavior.

a chivalrous display of duty

Example Sentences

There was no doubt that his stubbornly held and trenchantly expressed views—his trenchancy always tempered, however, by his gently courteous manner—contributed significantly to his unpopularity …—Simon Winchester, The Man Who Loved China, 2008

… she has seen generations of boys come and go, some well groomed and courteous, others rough and uppity …—Julian Barnes, New Yorker, 5 Mar. 1990

He joined us in the Yellow Room with … his son, a thoughtful, courteous, nice doctor …—Lady Bird Johnson 27 May 1964, in A White House Diary,  1970

The clerks were helpful and courteous.their customer service department always gives courteous responses, even to rude people

 

You're welcome! 

 

I gave Tony a very reasonable explanation for why I gave Jim the detail that I did.

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Your are constantly trying to play the victim. All I asked about was why all the bloviating over a typo. You're still bloviating. And just like trying to correct an administrator over a typo, which is "judgemental" in and of itself, you're being judgemental of me and are trying to come off looking like a poor, wounded soul. People here aren't buying your act... this dishing it out and not being able to take it..

I did not judge Jim's typo.

[BrotherTony]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

I gave Tony a very reasonable explanation for why I gave Jim the detail that I did.

I did not judge Jim's typo.

Nah.  Not at all. You just gave him a "scholarly" lecture on something he already knew, trying to lift yourself above someone else. This has been your MO ever since you've been here. And to top it off, you're still trying to justify yourself. You DID judge Jim's typo, and if you can't see that, I don't know how we can take you seriously.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

24 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

You’re confusing me, with these command DR. What the differences, if was a command or a request. He still the boss.

Not sure why you said, "request"?

But, yes, it was a command for them to obey. 

[Salyan]

This is a moderator request to get back to topic. No more reference need be made to typos on anyone's part. 

[Jim_Alaska]

1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

The Apostles were the first members of the first church. As such, Jesus was speaking to them in church capacity.

Your opinion is just that, your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I am not required to agree with it. You seem to have a real problem with church authority. It makes me wonder if you even attend a church as a member and what kind of church that could possibly be, since you deny the authority of a New Testament church to baptize.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

7 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

The Apostles were the first members of the first church. As such, Jesus was speaking to them in church capacity.

Your opinion is just that, your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I am not required to agree with it. You seem to have a real problem with church authority. It makes me wonder if you even attend a church as a member and what kind of church that could possibly be, since you deny the authority of a New Testament church to baptize.

The church has authority to act in the spirit of 1 Peter 5:3, "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock," to see that the commands given to individuals in the New Testament church are obeyed. They often facilitate the responsibilities given to the individuals, which often get carried out best in a group.

Church governance, regarding baptizing, is no different to overseeing the responsibility given to every individual to witness, which is the first part of the command, namely, to "teach all nations," as well as with the words, "whatsoever I have commanded." For, just as we are commanded to baptize, we are individually called to be witnesses, "having shod . . . feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace" (Eph. 6:15), "always . . . ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3:15).

The commands to love one another, be hospitable, kind, tenderhearted, and forgiving are among many other responsibilities given to individuals in the church, along with witnessing and baptizing, which church elders often oversee and facilitate. These practices can often best be done in groups, but the responsibility to participate lies firstly with every individual, not the church.

Though Jesus judges every church, He sees how each individual is behaving (see Rev. 2-3). And, one day, each person (not the churches) will give an account to God (Rom. 14:12) with regard to their participation in all that Jesus commaned (Matt. 28:20).

All churches, and individuals of churches, who baptize believers, whether corporately or like Philip, are obeying the command. As with obeying the other commands, it's regardless of affiliation to the early church, for their authority comes with the command. The proof is in the eating. For many have become Christians, and have thereby been baptized in the Holy Spirit, and have been baptized outside of denominations that claim such a heritage.

May the Lord bless you in your obedience to how you see the Scriptures. Be blessed.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Dr. Robert S. Morley
Added "and have thereby been baptized in the Holy Spirit"

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

8 hours ago, Salyan said:

This is a moderator request to get back to topic. No more reference need be made to typos on anyone's part. 

Sorry, Salyan, I answered Jim about water baptism ahead of seeing your post. Though the topic is related to Holy Spirit baptism, the depth I went into is perhaps not in keeping with your call to stay on topic. I subsequently added the words, "and have thereby been baptized in the Holy Spirit," to maintain the connection. I'll endeavor to keep any appropriate sidetracks brief. Be blessed. 

[Salyan]

7 hours ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

Sorry, Salyan, I answered Jim about water baptism ahead of seeing your post. Though the topic is related to Holy Spirit baptism, the depth I went into is perhaps not in keeping with your call to stay on topic. I subsequently added the words, "and have thereby been baptized in the Holy Spirit," to maintain the connection. I'll endeavor to keep any appropriate sidetracks brief. Be blessed. 

To be first, the topic of this thread is baptism. That is not off topic, and not what I was referring to.