Baptist churches that supports the LGBTQ movement

[TheGloryLand]

2 hours ago, John Young said:

 

I listen to the whole or watch the whole video. I agree on 99% of it just at the very end he mentioned, that the government tell him, that the church cannot operate because of the virus, but we don’t need to listen to the government, everything else I did agreed with. I believe if there’s a life safety situation and the government interferes for life safety ONLY  I believe we should listen to the government. I don’t want to continue the virus subject here. It could mean we’re at war and for safety you need to stay at home example.

[1Timothy115]

8 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

That will be all the Christian family can do is just leave. But at the same time they will gain more of them. They are not evil people, they are lost just like we were, but what they want to bring into the church is evil. 

This is all I was saying about allowing homosexuals as members or positions  as an officer. It is scriptural to walk away from them IF they refuse to repent.

Ephesians 5:3-12 “But fornication, and all uncleanness… no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them… For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”

[MikeWatson1]

I've got a book from J.M.Moody.. My Church..

He was talking to the SBC about their convention and said an interesting thing.. where they could RECOMMEND something to his church.. but they could not enforce it.  He could respect and consider their advice.. but it was the authority of the that local church.. bought through Jesus' blood that the decision and executive authority lies.  

But it is an interesting thing.. if a church is starting to off beam, how does it get back to the Word if it's the pastor leading the turning away?

Guess the congregation confronts him and elects him out?

Of course not meaning particularly any specific pastor, but as a general rule of thumb.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by 360watt

[BrotherTony]

24 minutes ago, 360watt said:

I've got a book from J.M.Moody.. My Church..

He was talking to the SBC about their convention and said an interesting thing.. where they could RECOMMEND something to his church.. but they could not enforce it.  He could respect and consider their advice.. but it was the authority of the that local church.. bought through Jesus' blood that the decision and executive authority lies.  

But it is an interesting thing.. if a church is starting to off beam, how does it get back to the Word if it's the pastor leading the turning away?

Guess the congregation confronts him and elects him out?

Of course not meaning particularly any specific pastor, but as a general rule of thumb.

 

 

It's true that the seminaries, Lifeway, the cooperative, etc., can make suggestions to the churches, but, it can in NO WAY FORCE any of the churches who align themselves with the SBC to do anything. They are as autonomous as any Independent Fundamental Baptist church, and have the same right to determine their positions, passions, etc. They do the same in the SBC as they would do in the IFB churches, they would either fire this pastor, or they would remove him in other ways, and would notify other churhes should they request information. 

[TheGloryLand]

17 hours ago, Jerry said:

Actually, those who seek sodomite and lesbian lifestyles (and other associated abominations) are in fact evil. The Bible teaches none of us are good without Christ, but it also teaches that those living these kind of lifestyles are wicked - especially if they turned to these lifestyles because of rejecting the Saviour and His Word as Romans 1 teaches (though not all that live this lifestyle have gotten to that point - those that haven't still have hope according to 1 Corinthians 6;9-11).

If someone lost comes into our churches and desires to hear the Word of God and learn about the Saviour, praise the Lord for that as long as they are not bringing their wickedness into the church. However, anyone that is living any kind of sinful lifestyle (including ones involving sexual sins) should not be welcomed as part of the church or allowed to be members. This exact practice (of letting the lost become accepted as "part of the church family") is the reason MANY churches throughout history have fallen by the wayside or compromised their beliefs and practices as the lost eventually outnumbered (or outweighed the beliefs of) the truly saved in each particular church or denomination. In such cases, you are not gaining more of a church family, you are destroying and tearing down a church by allowing tares in among the wheat.

Evil can also be sinners, I believe were you mentioned above. 

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, TheGloryLand said:

Evil can also be sinners, I believe were you mentioned above. 

Those who are evil ARE sinners, as we all are. The only difference is that Christians are covered/forgiven because of the blood of Jesus Christ. 

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Evil can also be sinners, I believe were you mentioned above. 

Yes, while the church building/services are open to the lost (and yes, I will make this caveat - to those who are not openly flaunting their sin), no lost person should be welcomed as a member  until they actually trust in Christ for salvation and there is evidence of a change (ie. evidence of being born again).

[BrotherTony]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:36 PM, Jerry said:

An Independent Baptist church is autonomous. Not all Baptist churches are that way. If they are part of a convention, for example, they are not.

That being said, if someone else dictated that they follow a certain guideline or did certain things, then those ones would not be autonomous either. The simple act of having a headquarters dictating beliefs or practices would make those churches a denomination. One of the Baptist Distinctives is the autonomy of the local church. Of course, there are many Baptist churches that do not follow this distinctive.

We can fellowship and even work together to some extent with other likeminded independent Baptist churches, but are not linked together in the sense where one tells the other what to do or believe.

Can you give an example of a  Baptist church that is in a "convention" that isn't  autonomous??? I know that in the SBC all of the churches are autonomous, and they aren't even truly a convention. They only cooperate in missions giving, and many don't even do that. It's just some churches way of stating they are like-minded...sort of like "Independent, Fundamental".....

[TheGloryLand]

You know what is really wired, that there those that are against the LGBTQ movement, against the gay marriages  movement, against abortions, under the Christian umbrella, and don’t even attend a church. Also those that support this movement and say that they are Christians. There are those so call Christian against the government, where there is no business they should be, like gun control. Oil and water don’t mix.

[Jim_Alaska]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Can you give an example of a  Baptist church that is in a "convention" that isn't  autonomous??? I know that in the SBC all of the churches are autonomous, and they aren't even truly a convention. They only cooperate in missions giving, and many don't even do that. It's just some churches way of stating they are like-minded...sort of like "Independent, Fundamental".....

Tony, you keep saying that SBC churches are autonomous. It seems like you are trying to justify your not being in a truly Independent Church. If autonomy is really important , why not be truly Independent?

It has been my experience that "Convention" churches are always spouting "autonomy", while at the same time, caving in to the convention's programs. Autonomy and Independence consists of a lot more than your explanation of SBC churches. For instance, while  a convention or fellowship may not mandate that churches in the convention go along with the convention programs, most, if not all, will follow the convention's guidelines. 

A couple of examples would be: The convention's Sunday School quarterlies being used by convention churches, as well as AWANA, which program is used by most, if not all, convention churches.

And finally I would submit that, as far as Bible guidance is concerned, we do not see conventions or fellowships in Scripture, each church was truly autonomous in all respects.

As far as "mission boards", there is no scriptural justification for them. Mission boards are man made inventions, with men in positions on the boards that are drawing more money than the missionaries in most cases. The bible example is missionaries sent out y Independent churches, not mission  boards. In many cases the board gets the final say-so as to who goes where, and even makes the decision to send a missionary where he is burdened to go or not. There are even allegations that a mission board will keep, or take out  a missionary it deems unacceptable, or his work is not acceptable to the board.

Mission boards, apart from being unscriptural, serve only to siphon off funding that would be better used on the actual mission field.

[TheGloryLand]

I believe the SBC was a strong Bible Preaching church in the past, some time ago. I attended and enjoy serving with them. Even if they don’t use the KJV. But the new generation of believers in the SBC, are selling out. Becoming more liberal in all ways. Not all of them-yet, but this change is bringing growth in members. So if you can’t beat them, join them. Right 

[BrotherTony]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:07 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

Tony, you keep saying that SBC churches are autonomous. It seems like you are trying to justify your not being in a truly Independent Church. If autonomy is really important , why not be truly Independent?

I attend church where the Lord leads me to go. I don't have to justify what he's told me to do. The churches associated with the SBC are autonomous...they each have the same characteristics of the Baptist church that they all have, whether IFB, SBC, BMA, ABA, etc. The are truly independent. They don't answer to the "convention." The "convention is actually only the meeting of the churches to decide how to control their combined missions dollars. And, not every church that is associated with the SBC gives to the missions cooperative, yet, they  still fellowship with the SBC.

On 6/2/2022 at 12:07 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

It has been my experience that "Convention" churches are always spouting "autonomy", while at the same time, caving in to the convention's programs. Autonomy and Independence consists of a lot more than your explanation of SBC churches. For instance, while  a convention or fellowship may not mandate that churches in the convention go along with the convention programs, most, if not all, will follow the convention's guidelines.

Yet, in EVERY IFB church I've been a member of, they are members of a state association of Baptist churches, or an association/fellowship that controls a college/institution of higher learning, or mission board. Not all followed the "recommendations"  of the fellowship or association. Why?? Because they were autonomous, not having a hierarchical nature or structure.  Your experience is just that, your experience, not necessarily right, but, then again, not necessarily wrong.

On 6/2/2022 at 12:07 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

 

 

 

 

On 6/2/2022 at 12:07 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

A couple of examples would be: The convention's Sunday School quarterlies being used by convention churches, as well as AWANA, which program is used by most, if not all, convention churches.

And finally I would submit that, as far as Bible guidance is concerned, we do not see conventions or fellowships in Scripture, each church was truly autonomous in all respects.

The church I am a member of uses the Lifeway books at times, but not because they are compelled to, nor do they use the AWANA program for their youth. We find what works best for our church, not the SBC finding it for us. Truly autonomous.  The Bible doesn't strictly forbid fellowships/associations either. 

On 6/2/2022 at 12:07 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

As far as "mission boards", there is no scriptural justification for them. Mission boards are man made inventions, with men in positions on the boards that are drawing more money than the missionaries in most cases. The bible example is missionaries sent out y Independent churches, not mission  boards. In many cases the board gets the final say-so as to who goes where, and even makes the decision to send a missionary where he is burdened to go or not. There are even allegations that a mission board will keep, or take out  a missionary it deems unacceptable, or his work is not acceptable to the board.

Mission boards, apart from being unscriptural, serve only to siphon off funding that would be better used on the actual mission field.

I totally agree with your assessments of missions boards, but, yet we find them in the IFB circles, and in the SBC and other Baptist groups. I prefer to let the Lord tell me whom to send missions dollars to. I don't participate in our churches missions cooperative giving. I designate that the tithes all go to the salary and upkeep of the church, salary of the pastor, assistant, and church staff. Nothing is to be given to the cooperative. I've done that for over six years now. 

[Salyan]

4 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:Yet, in EVERY IFB church I've been a member of, they are members of a state association of Baptist churches, or an association/fellowship that controls a college/institution of higher learning, or mission board. Not all followed the "recommendations"  of the fellowship or association. Why?? Because they were autonomous, not having a hierarchical nature or structure.  Your experience is just that, your experience, not necessarily right, but, then again, not necessarily wrong.

 

Wow… I’ve never been to an IFB that’s a member of an association. In my opinion, that means they are not truly independent. 

[Jerry]

33 minutes ago, Salyan said:

Wow… I’ve never been to an IFB that’s a member of an association. In my opinion, that means they are not truly independent. 

Exactly! They are not independent (by very definition of the word itself) if they are part of a convention, an association, or anything like that.

[TheGloryLand]

Here in Florida some IBC  have children's home, for those children that need a place to stay or live. I do believe they have a board of directors, to watch over things. I don’t think, this is an association.