Sickness among Christians

[baptist senior]

While Jesus was on earth He healed anyone that asked or was asked for by someone else.  What are your thoughts on why there is so much sickness amongst Christians that goes unhealed ? 

[Jim_Alaska]

This seems to be an extremely speculative question. For instance, how do we, or you, know that there is "so much sickness amongst Christians that goes unhealed"? It automatically assumes that there is more sickness that goes unhealed among Christians than there is in the general population, but what if, in fact, this is not true?

As for  myself, I would hesitate to try to answer a question that is based on assumptions and unknowns.

[Jerry]

Jesus and the apostles healing all or many sicknesses during their ministries was mostly to show the authority they had from God. They were giving us the New Testament revelation from God and the miracles they did backed up the message. God nowhere promises Christians freedom from sickness - in fact, many times in the OT and the NT, the Bible teaches that the Lord allows or causes us to be sick for various reasons, usually for our benefit to draw us closer to Him. Job's sickness was testing allowed by God to teach us various things. All sickness is a result of the fall; we are mortal and prone to sicknesses and death because of sin entering into our world, and are bodies also break down as we get older. Various passages in the NT show us that we have a  mortal body that groans, awaiting our eternal body from Heaven. On an individual level, in addition to these, we may be sick due to chastisement (or judgement of unbelievers), due to testing and trials, to teach us to lean on the Lord more, to experience something that God can use later in our lives to minister to others - which we could have never done to the same extent if we hadn't gotten sick, etc. in the first place.

Overall Biblical point is the Lord is in control to all that happens to us and all sicknesses, etc. are only allowed inasmuch as it is His will for each person's life, and He has a reason for each thing He allows into our lives.

Above I mentioned chastisement. If a believer is being chastised with sickness from God, they will know they are being chastised. (It wouldn't be much in the way of correction if they did not know they were being corrected - how can you submit to and learn from God's chastisement if you do not know you are being chastised? You cannot.) Though others around them may not be completely sure a particular sickness in someone else's life is due to chastisement, unless admitted by the chastised believer. Usually (as far as I understand it), if a particular sickness is specifically due to chastisement, when the sin is repented of and the person has returned to the Lord, that sickness will usually be healed - unless it has gotten to the point that Hebrews 12 speaks of: scourging. That is chastisement that leaves marks, that has permanent effects. And there may be other times where some aspects of the sickness may be removed when the Christian repents, but God allows a weakness or difficulty to remain to cause that individual to lean on Him continually for strength and grace.

[SureWord]

There are many obese Christians especially among Baptists who love eating. That will lead to much sickness.

[BrotherTony]

4 hours ago, SureWord said:

There are many obese Christians especially among Baptists who love eating. That will lead to much sickness.

There are many obese Christians...period...and a lot of times this obesity has NOTHING to do with over eating. This is a tired, old argument, and a straw man that those who can't come up with other examples use on a consistent basis. UGH!

[Razor]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

There are many obese Christians...period...and a lot of times this obesity has NOTHING to do with over eating. This is a tired, old argument, and a straw man that those who can't come up with other examples use on a consistent basis. UGH!

Actually, it is not a tired old argument. It is an uncomfortable truth for many. It is rare that anyone is obese from medical causes and not overeating. Cushing's Disease and polycystic ovary syndrome may lead to being overweight. Steroids and antidepressants may lead to weight gain. It is rare that genetics is the culprit. 

The only way to loose weight is to lay down the knife, fork, and spoon. Eat slowly and you will be satisfied when eating less. Add physical activity to your daily routine. We humans were meant to walk, so get out and walk. 

It is a sin not to take care of the temple of your body that God gave you. 

Blessings and stay well. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Razor

[baptist senior]

21 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

This seems to be an extremely speculative question. For instance, how do we, or you, know that there is "so much sickness amongst Christians that goes unhealed"? It automatically assumes that there is more sickness that goes unhealed among Christians than there is in the general population, but what if, in fact, this is not true?

As for  myself, I would hesitate to try to answer a question that is based on assumptions and unknowns.

no it merely impplies that there are alot of people in churches that are sick and go unhealed.   James 5.15 tells us that the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up;  so could it be that we are not praying, or not praying in faith? 

[baptist senior]

18 hours ago, Jerry said:

Jesus and the apostles healing all or many sicknesses during their ministries was mostly to show the authority they had from God. They were giving us the New Testament revelation from God and the miracles they did backed up the message. God nowhere promises Christians freedom from sickness - in fact, many times in the OT and the NT, the Bible teaches that the Lord allows or causes us to be sick for various reasons, usually for our benefit to draw us closer to Him. Job's sickness was testing allowed by God to teach us various things. All sickness is a result of the fall; we are mortal and prone to sicknesses and death because of sin entering into our world, and are bodies also break down as we get older. Various passages in the NT show us that we have a  mortal body that groans, awaiting our eternal body from Heaven. On an individual level, in addition to these, we may be sick due to chastisement (or judgement of unbelievers), due to testing and trials, to teach us to lean on the Lord more, to experience something that God can use later in our lives to minister to others - which we could have never done to the same extent if we hadn't gotten sick, etc. in the first place.

Overall Biblical point is the Lord is in control to all that happens to us and all sicknesses, etc. are only allowed inasmuch as it is His will for each person's life, and He has a reason for each thing He allows into our lives.

Above I mentioned chastisement. If a believer is being chastised with sickness from God, they will know they are being chastised. (It wouldn't be much in the way of correction if they did not know they were being corrected - how can you submit to and learn from God's chastisement if you do not know you are being chastised? You cannot.) Though others around them may not be completely sure a particular sickness in someone else's life is due to chastisement, unless admitted by the chastised believer. Usually (as far as I understand it), if a particular sickness is specifically due to chastisement, when the sin is repented of and the person has returned to the Lord, that sickness will usually be healed - unless it has gotten to the point that Hebrews 12 speaks of: scourging. That is chastisement that leaves marks, that has permanent effects. And there may be other times where some aspects of the sickness may be removed when the Christian repents, but God allows a weakness or difficulty to remain to cause that individual to lean on Him continually for strength and grace.

What about James 5.15  And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.   What are we doing wrong?  

8 hours ago, SureWord said:

There are many obese Christians especially among Baptists who love eating. That will lead to much sickness.

Where does the Bible define obese?  We have seen over and over that medical science is more wrong than right and is ever changing 

4 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

There are many obese Christians...period...and a lot of times this obesity has NOTHING to do with over eating. This is a tired, old argument, and a straw man that those who can't come up with other examples use on a consistent basis. UGH!

I agree, and I don't recall obesity being condemned in the Bible.  

[baptist senior]

3 hours ago, Razor said:

Actually, it is not a tired old argument. It is an uncomfortable truth for many. It is rare that anyone is obese from medical causes and not overeating. Cushing's Disease and polycystic ovary syndrome may lead to being overweight. Steroids and antidepressants may lead to weight gain. It is rare that genetics is the culprit. 

The only way to loose weight is to lay down the knife, fork, and spoon. Eat slowly and you will be satisfied when eating less. Add physical activity to your daily routine. We humans were meant to walk, so get out and walk. 

It is a sin not to take care of the temple of your body that God gave you. 

Blessings and stay well. 

Yes it is a sin to not take care of the body, but  medical sciences practice of medicine does not dictate what is right and wrong in regards to sin.  As we can see, it is ever changing and tells us things like we can't eat what God blessed us with and we should poison our body with pills, vaccines, statins etc.   

[Razor]

16 minutes ago, baptist senior said:

Yes it is a sin to not take care of the body, but  medical sciences practice of medicine does not dictate what is right and wrong in regards to sin.  As we can see, it is ever changing and tells us things like we can't eat what God blessed us with and we should poison our body with pills, vaccines, statins etc.   

Science is always changing as more is learned. Thank goodness it changes else we would still be killing folk through bleeding, no antiseptics, no anesthetics, etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I am still alive because of advances in medicine through vaccines, radiation, pills, other shots, etc. etc. Change is not always bad. 

[baptist senior]

24 minutes ago, Razor said:

Science is always changing as more is learned. Thank goodness it changes else we would still be killing folk through bleeding, no antiseptics, no anesthetics, etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I am still alive because of advances in medicine through vaccines, radiation, pills, other shots, etc. etc. Change is not always bad. 

There is a difference between science and science falsely so called.  I have so many many ailments that have been caused by medicine including that I am half blind in both eyes  because of radiation.  I know of many Christian brothers and sisters dead because of the current vaccines.  Give it time and they will remove these from the market too.  Not all science is good science.  I am alive today because God hasn't taken me home yet. But back to the subject  What medical science calls obese today was not considered obese till 'twiggy' came along, and what they say is good or bad for the body today will change tomorrow, I'll stick to what the Bible says 

[Razor]

14 minutes ago, baptist senior said:

There is a difference between science and science falsely so called.  I have so many many ailments that have been caused by medicine including that I am half blind in both eyes  because of radiation.  I know of many Christian brothers and sisters dead because of the current vaccines.  Give it time and they will remove these from the market too.  Not all science is good science.  I am alive today because God hasn't taken me home yet. But back to the subject  What medical science calls obese today was not considered obese till 'twiggy' came along, and what they say is good or bad for the body today will change tomorrow, I'll stick to what the Bible says 

Yes, the Bible does talk about eats and drinks.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?  

Proverbs 23:20-21 - Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh

Proverbs 23:20 - Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh

Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me

Proverbs 23:2 - And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite

Luke 21:34 - And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares
 

[BrotherTony]

4 hours ago, Razor said:

Actually, it is not a tired old argument. It is an uncomfortable truth for many. It is rare that anyone is obese from medical causes and not overeating.

MY RESPONSE: Hogwash! Your opinion again stated as fact. I know of MANY Christians, and NON-Christians as well, who are obese because of treatments that they've had. I myself am an obese person, and have been ever since the doctors started treating me with antibiotics and steroids in 1997. I dont' overeat, especially being diabetic. The attitude YOU exude is a huge part of the problem with the way Christians view each other. UGH! MOST of the people I know who are overweight DON'T overeat...and you're being nothing more than judgemental and putting your opinion in place of fact. Again...UGH!

 

 

Cushing's Disease and polycystic ovary syndrome may lead to being overweight. Steroids and antidepressants may lead to weight gain. It is rare that genetics is the culprit. 

In my family, weight gain is genetic...my maternal grandparents were both overweight, but ate a 1500 calorie a day diet. They were both quite active, walked constantly, and were very involved in the activities that burned calories. Medications were one of the the culprits. In my paternal grandparents, again, medicatons were the culprit. Now, my 1/2 brother was a huge eater...and overate every chance he got when he was younger, and he ended up having a massive heart attack 15 years ago, and had open heart surgery right after. He's down from almost 400 lbs to 285, and works stocking in a store. 

4 hours ago, Razor said:

The only way to loose weight is to lay down the knife, fork, and spoon. Eat slowly and you will be satisfied when eating less. Add physical activity to your daily routine. We humans were meant to walk, so get out and walk. 

It is a sin not to take care of the temple of your body that God gave you. 

Blessings and stay well. 

The judgemental attitude you have is one of the many problems that people find common in the church today. Maybe you should live in the real world a while.

1 hour ago, baptist senior said:

 

Where does the Bible define obese?  We have seen over and over that medical science is more wrong than right and is ever changing 

I agree, and I don't recall obesity being condemned in the Bible.  

You're correct. The Bible implies we should take care of our bodies, and we should. Stlll, there are some, sadly enough, on these forums that feel they are the Holy Spirit and believe they have the responsibility to judge who or who isn't obese and why they are or aren't. No wonder people are leaving churches in droves. Stereotypes kill Christianity easier than anything else I know.

[baptist senior]

13 minutes ago, Razor said:

Yes, the Bible does talk about eats and drinks.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?  

Proverbs 23:20-21 - Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh

Proverbs 23:20 - Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh

Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me

Proverbs 23:2 - And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite

Luke 21:34 - And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares
 

Yes, now follow the context, it matters  Mostly the passages on food are talking about the propensity to be persuaded to do evil for food, not the eating itself.  Again one passage that defines obestity  let alone one that changes the definition with the times.  What is obese this year will change tomorrow just like low fat low carbs etc etc.  God does not tell people what the correct weight is for anyone.  

23 hours ago, baptist senior said:

While Jesus was on earth He healed anyone that asked or was asked for by someone else.  What are your thoughts on why there is so much sickness amongst Christians that goes unhealed ? 

I should have asked this question a different way.  James tells us that the 'prayer of faith shall save the sick and God will rise them up --- since there are so many bothers and sisters that remain sick is it because we are not praying, or we are not praying in faith?  What would happen if we were actually serious about prayer?     

[Jerry]

6 hours ago, Razor said:

The only way to loose weight is to lay down the knife, fork, and spoon. Eat slowly and you will be satisfied when eating less. Add physical activity to your daily routine. We humans were meant to walk, so get out and walk. 

It is a sin not to take care of the temple of your body that God gave you. 

Again, you state your nonbiblical opinions over and over. You say something is a sin - ok, quote the passages that actually state that. The Bible does not say that. This is what the Bible does say:

1 Timothy 4:7-9 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

God puts the emphasis on our spiritual walks with Him, not on our physical shell. I don't like being out of shape,  but it is not due to overeating - I have problems with my blood sugar level at times because I can't always eat what is necessary (referring to eating even less, not referring to eating unhealthy foods). I am certainly not overeating. With this Covid mess (not being able to go anywhere or having to wear a mask the whole time you are somewhere, which I can't do with my asthma) and with arthritis in my knees (among other health issues), I have found that I am way less physically active than I used to be; therefore put on some weight. Is there anywhere in God's Word that says I am sinning because I don't have a really good physical routine that counteracts my limited  mobility due to my arthritis? No. While it is great to have perfect health and think you are so better off than those people that are out of shape, guess what, that is only a dream, not reality when many of us get older. (And those who prioritize their physical bodies over everything else, that IS sin - the Bible uses several terms to describe it such as being lovers of themselves, idolators (worshipping their own bodies).