Too Early for the Annual Halloween Argume,...er, Discussion Topic?

[Ukulelemike]

So, shall we have a friendly chat on Halloween, and its keeping/rejecting? Or maybe expand it to a discussion on ALL holidays?  What are some thoughts out there?  

[SureWord]

I don't have any children nor do kids come to my door trick or treating so to me it's of no concern though in the past I'd hand out candy to the kids on the bus. Our county schools don't allow dressing up from staff or students but they have a "trunk or treat" at the school. 

[HappyChristian]

We personally do not celebrate it. When our son was little, we would pass out candy with tracts to the kids who came to the door. Josh enjoyed handing it out and seeing the costumes. 

Now...we still don't observe. We live in the country, sort of, so we don't get anyone knocking on our door. We do, however, have 2 Sunday School girls who love Halloween. Their mother does, as well, and so they look forward to it. They are, in fact going to be gone the next two weeks to their aunt's house, where they will celebrate with a lot of activities. In a way, that takes it off our shoulders of having to worry about. But...

Here is where my conundrum comes in. I want to teach the girls truth, but do not want to make them feel that they must choose between their mother and me in regards to it. That can be more harmful than just "telling the truth" about its roots. So after prayer, the Lord led me to teach our October lessons around the verse "What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee." My emphasis was on the fact that there are scary things out there, but we can - and should - trust in the Lord even during those times we are afraid. That makes for a nice segue to the next theme: praising and thanking God.

We do observe Thanksgiving, even though the history of harvest fests is sketchy. Our forefathers held a feast of thanksgiving to God, this is true. Many other countries had harvest fests as well - giving thanks to their god, many times not the God of the Bible. So we will have a pie social on Nov. 1, to begin the celebration of God's goodness. We also collect food to give food boxes to the needy just before Thanksgiving. We are thinking about having a "fall frolic" one Sunday in Nov., which would be a time of games and fun - including a candy hunt.  The "hunt" will probably be for hidden candy...kind of in the idea of the eggs hidden at Easter - which we don't do.  We, instead, on Resurrection Sunday were planning this last year to have a candy scramble but covid hit. We will be doing that this next year, hopefully.

In December, we will spend the time with the girls encouraging them to think about Jesus and why He came. This is the reason we do observe Christmas Day. Yes, we are well versed in the history, so don't need a lecture on it. But in this we rest: we've chosen not to observe the day as the world does (Rom. 14). We worship and celebrate Jesus Christ and uphold Him. We "use" the day to encourage folks to come to church, where they will hear about Christ...which is what is important. I know, some will say that's a compromise, and that's fine if they believe so. We are "convinced in [our] own mind," so we're good. =D

 

[Ukulelemike]

On 10/22/2020 at 3:52 PM, HappyChristian said:

We personally do not celebrate it. When our son was little, we would pass out candy with tracts to the kids who came to the door. Josh enjoyed handing it out and seeing the costumes. 

Now...we still don't observe. We live in the country, sort of, so we don't get anyone knocking on our door. We do, however, have 2 Sunday School girls who love Halloween. Their mother does, as well, and so they look forward to it. They are, in fact going to be gone the next two weeks to their aunt's house, where they will celebrate with a lot of activities. In a way, that takes it off our shoulders of having to worry about. But...

Here is where my conundrum comes in. I want to teach the girls truth, but do not want to make them feel that they must choose between their mother and me in regards to it. That can be more harmful than just "telling the truth" about its roots. So after prayer, the Lord led me to teach our October lessons around the verse "What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee." My emphasis was on the fact that there are scary things out there, but we can - and should - trust in the Lord even during those times we are afraid. That makes for a nice segue to the next theme: praising and thanking God.   It can be difficult dealing with children in a church if their mother doesn't attend, particularly with such issues as Halloween and Christmas/Santa Claus. I find that if I teach on such doctrines as, say 'Perfect love casteth out fear' and we have no need to fear anything if we trust Christ, it can help them make that jump to understand.

We do observe Thanksgiving, even though the history of harvest fests is sketchy. Our forefathers held a feast of thanksgiving to God, this is true. Many other countries had harvest fests as well - giving thanks to their god, many times not the God of the Bible. So we will have a pie social on Nov. 1, to begin the celebration of God's goodness. We also collect food to give food boxes to the needy just before Thanksgiving. We are thinking about having a "fall frolic" one Sunday in Nov., which would be a time of games and fun - including a candy hunt.  The "hunt" will probably be for hidden candy...kind of in the idea of the eggs hidden at Easter - which we don't do.  We, instead, on Resurrection Sunday were planning this last year to have a candy scramble but covid hit. We will be doing that this next year, hopefully. I have read about those who reject Thanksgiving, believing it is related to the pagan harvest festivals, but knowing that the Pilgrims were strict separatists and that they would have rejected any known association with such festivals, I can only believe, especially from their own writings, that this was directly associated with the biblical concept of giving praise and thanksgiving unto God for His goodness.  The connection to pagan festivals, I believe, is used by groups like the JW's as justification to reject it.

In December, we will spend the time with the girls encouraging them to think about Jesus and why He came. This is the reason we do observe Christmas Day. Yes, we are well versed in the history, so don't need a lecture on it. But in this we rest: we've chosen not to observe the day as the world does (Rom. 14). We worship and celebrate Jesus Christ and uphold Him. We "use" the day to encourage folks to come to church, where they will hear about Christ...which is what is important. I know, some will say that's a compromise, and that's fine if they believe so. We are "convinced in [our] own mind," so we're good. =D

 

 

[HappyChristian]

7 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

 

I agree with you about Thanksgiving...my only reason for bringing up the history of harvest fests - times of thanking the harvest gods - was that there can be something "wrong" with anything we do.  We don't want to observe halloween because of its history, but then someone will ding us for celebrating Christmas since there is sketchy history with that also. I honestly don't think there's any way to "spiritualize" halloween, nor any way to actually observe it to the Lord. Although there is the fact that we have to live amongst people, and if kids come to the door, tracts can be handed out with the candy. 

 

[Pastorj]

Halloween is an evil day and no Christian should participate in anyway. I am shocked at how many "good Churches" do Trunk or Treat. If you look at every aspect of this day, there is nothing holy about it.

[Yeshuafan]

11 hours ago, Pastorj said:

Halloween is an evil day and no Christian should participate in anyway. I am shocked at how many "good Churches" do Trunk or Treat. If you look at every aspect of this day, there is nothing holy about it.

We are doign trunk or treat had 600 kids last year expecting 1000 tonight, and many of them have been now saved and attending our services!

[Pastorj]

The ends do not justify the means. Find another way to lead them to Christ, but participating in the Devils holiday is wrong for churches and all Christians

[Yeshuafan]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:50 AM, Pastorj said:

The ends do not justify the means. Find another way to lead them to Christ, but participating in the Devils holiday is wrong for churches and all Christians

WE had 47470 attend and receive tracts and bibles!

[SureWord]

35 minutes ago, Yeshuafan said:

WE had 47470 attend and receive tracts and bibles!

47,470 kids attend?

[Ukulelemike]

3 hours ago, Yeshuafan said:

WE had 47470 attend and receive tracts and bibles!

I find that a bit difficult to believe, but even so, what we save them WITH must be holy and sanctified, or we are just continuing to show them that its okay, as long as "its for Jesus". 

[Yeshuafan]

7 hours ago, SureWord said:

47,470 kids attend?

I mistyped, "Only" was 4770, but still,a large outreach!

4 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

I find that a bit difficult to believe, but even so, what we save them WITH must be holy and sanctified, or we are just continuing to show them that its okay, as long as "its for Jesus". 

was a typo, final count came out to be 4770!

[SureWord]

9 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

I find that a bit difficult to believe, but even so, what we save them WITH must be holy and sanctified, or we are just continuing to show them that its okay, as long as "its for Jesus". 

I have mixed feelings about it. If they were truly saved are we going to criticize it? Sure, it might not be the most scripural approach but if it led to the furtherance of the gospel I'd be slow to judge.

My older brother was saved during a martial arts exhibition where the instructor preached the gospel afterwards. Many of the super separated sanctified brethren see martial arts as evil associated with heathenism.  If this never had happened I probably would never have been saved since a seed was planted from a bible study I attended with him and his wife.

[Ukulelemike]

17 hours ago, SureWord said:

I have mixed feelings about it. If they were truly saved are we going to criticize it? Sure, it might not be the most scripural approach but if it led to the furtherance of the gospel I'd be slow to judge.

My older brother was saved during a martial arts exhibition where the instructor preached the gospel afterwards. Many of the super separated sanctified brethren see martial arts as evil associated with heathenism.  If this never had happened I probably would never have been saved since a seed was planted from a bible study I attended with him and his wife.

The Lord can speak through the mouth of an ass, but that doesn't mean it is what we ought to seek to. God used a woman to judge Israel, but that is not His ultimate plan. Jesus said the rocks themselves would cry out, if His disciples didn't, but that doesn't mean we ought to be seeking to the rocks for God's word. My point being, God CAN use whatever He chooses to use that some might be saved, but that doesn't mean we ought to be using unsanctified and unholy activities and entertainments to spread the gospel. We ought to seek to be holy and sanctified in all thigs we do for Him.