Can religious co-exist side-by-side?

[DaChaser]

3 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

From the research I have done this does not appear in the Qur'an. It appears in Ibn Kathir's writings. He lived in the 14th century. Ibn Kathir was an influetncial  historian. So, if my research is correct it is an error to attribute this verse to the Qur'an. 

You are correct, but believe its in the Hadith, as Muslims see the Koran and hadith as equally valid to them!

[Bouncing Bill]

All the replies on what is or is not in the Qur'an really have little or nothing to do with the original post. 

The Emirates are much more liberal in their Muslim theology than, say Saudi Arabia. This is easily seen from their lack of restrictions on foreigners, especially woman. In my humble opinion the driving force behind much of what they do, just like here, is money. We cannot lump all Muslims under one test, just as we cannot do the same with all Christians. 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Bouncing Bill

[DaChaser]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:15 AM, Bouncing Bill said:

All the replies on what is or is not in the Qur'an really have little or nothing to do with the original post. 

The Emirates are much more liberal in their Muslim theology than, say Saudi Arabia. This is easily seen from their lack of restrictions on foreigners, especially woman. In my humble opinion the driving force behind much of what they do, just like here, is money. We cannot lump all Muslims under one test, just as we cannot do the same with all Christians. 

 

The Islam practiced today in Saudi Arabia is true Islam, as they follow what Allah and Muhhamed taught the most!

[Bouncing Bill]

17 hours ago, DaChaser said:

The Islam practiced today in Saudi Arabia is true Islam, as they follow what Allah and Muhhamed taught the most!

I am not sure that is true. The Shia wold certainly disagree. They follow the teaching of the Wahhabi school of theology. Just like Christianity there are various school of theology. Others would say they are the ones that most follow the teachings of Mohammed. The Wahhabi school of theology began with Muslim scholar, Muhammad bin Abd al. Wahhab. He, a Sunni, lived in the 17th century. He and his theology are very puritanical and anyone who does not believe as they do are their enemy. I do not believe Mohammed taught this. He called Christian, Jews and Muslims 'People of the Book'. The Quran calls Jews "people of the book' 31 times. 

[DaChaser]

4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I am not sure that is true. The Shia wold certainly disagree. They follow the teaching of the Wahhabi school of theology. Just like Christianity there are various school of theology. Others would say they are the ones that most follow the teachings of Mohammed. The Wahhabi school of theology began with Muslim scholar, Muhammad bin Abd al. Wahhab. He, a Sunni, lived in the 17th century. He and his theology are very puritanical and anyone who does not believe as they do are their enemy. I do not believe Mohammed taught this. He called Christian, Jews and Muslims 'People of the Book'. The Quran calls Jews "people of the book' 31 times. 

Allah told Muhhammed that he was to spread the truth of Islam by the sword to all, and that unbelievers were to submit or be killed off, while Christians and Jews could pay taxes and live, but be second class under Islam!

Allah not the God of the Bible, nor was Muhhammed a true prophet!

[Bouncing Bill]

1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Allah told Muhhammed that he was to spread the truth of Islam by the sword to all, and that unbelievers were to submit or be killed off, while Christians and Jews could pay taxes and live, but be second class under Islam!

Allah not the God of the Bible, nor was Muhhammed a true prophet!

And Mohammed told his followers to treat all people of the book well. May be a contradiction.

Oh, and they accept Jesus as a prophet. The trace themselves back to Abraham and Ishamel. Now I've heard people say  that Allah is not the god of the Bible. However, that is not necessarily true. Allah in Arabic means God. There was a Baptist pastor at the seminary in Prague one year from Nigeria. He was a master teacher. He could take a complex subject and teach it in a simple way that made it understandable. I often heard him pray in his Nigerian language and in his language. He would use the word Allah as the Nigerian word for God. That was a revelation to me. I asked him about it and he confirmed that in his native language the word for God is Allah. So, it is not restricted to Islam. So, if the Qua'an was translated into English where it says Allah the translation would be God. 

I completely agree that Mohammed was not a true prophet. I agree their understanding of Christ, though they consider him the 2nd greatest prophet, is not correct. I also know that not all Muslims are radical, fundamentalists bent on destroying all who do not agree with them. Just like some Christians, those radicals have given a black eye to all.

This is an excellent book on the three faiths, the 'people of the book.'

Edited August 6, 2020 by Bouncing Bill

[Jim_Alaska]

Bill, I think defending Islam is not a good thing, or even appropriate for this forum. Islam is and always has been a murderous false religion. Their history proves this is true and it is true today also. It is a favorite ruse for those that try to defend Islam to always try to put forth the idea that not all Muslims are radical; I and many other people, both Christian and non-Christian simply do not believe that propaganda. Well I remember seeing the gleeful spectacle of thousands cheering in the streets when the Twin Towers came down, that is the real Islam.

For you to try to compare Christians to murderous Islam by saying Christians have done these atrocities too is not only untrue, it is wrong.

So, in closing, if you would like to continue with your original post topic, please do so, but without zeroing in on Islam and then defending it to Baptists on this board.

[DaChaser]

20 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

And Mohammed told his followers to treat all people of the book well. May be a contradiction.

Oh, and they accept Jesus as a prophet. The trace themselves back to Abraham and Ishamel. Now I've heard people say  that Allah is not the god of the Bible. However, that is not necessarily true. Allah in Arabic means God. There was a Baptist pastor at the seminary in Prague one year from Nigeria. He was a master teacher. He could take a complex subject and teach it in a simple way that made it understandable. I often heard him pray in his Nigerian language and in his language. He would use the word Allah as the Nigerian word for God. That was a revelation to me. I asked him about it and he confirmed that in his native language the word for God is Allah. So, it is not restricted to Islam. So, if the Qua'an was translated into English where it says Allah the translation would be God. 

I completely agree that Mohammed was not a true prophet. I agree their understanding of Christ, though they consider him the 2nd greatest prophet, is not correct. I also know that not all Muslims are radical, fundamentalists bent on destroying all who do not agree with them. Just like some Christians, those radicals have given a black eye to all.

This is an excellent book on the three faiths, the 'people of the book.'

Those such as Isis though are the closest to what their prophet Muhhamed taught, as Islam is commissioned by Allah to take over the world, and that is to be done by extreme force of need be!

4 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bill, I think defending Islam is not a good thing, or even appropriate for this forum. Islam is and always has been a murderous false religion. Their history proves this is true and it is true today also. It is a favorite ruse for those that try to defend Islam to always try to put forth the idea that not all Muslims are radical; I and many other people, both Christian and non-Christian simply do not believe that propaganda. Well I remember seeing the gleeful spectacle of thousands cheering in the streets when the Twin Towers came down, that is the real Islam.

For you to try to compare Christians to murderous Islam by saying Christians have done these atrocities too is not only untrue, it is wrong.

So, in closing, if you would like to continue with your original post topic, please do so, but without zeroing in on Islam and then defending it to Baptists on this board.

Islam is a Satanic counterfeit of the the messiah and real Gospel, as the angel that appeared to Muhhammed and gave to him those revelations was no doubt same one that appeared to adam and Eve and to others such as Joseph Smith!

20 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

And Mohammed told his followers to treat all people of the book well. May be a contradiction.

Oh, and they accept Jesus as a prophet. The trace themselves back to Abraham and Ishamel. Now I've heard people say  that Allah is not the god of the Bible. However, that is not necessarily true. Allah in Arabic means God. There was a Baptist pastor at the seminary in Prague one year from Nigeria. He was a master teacher. He could take a complex subject and teach it in a simple way that made it understandable. I often heard him pray in his Nigerian language and in his language. He would use the word Allah as the Nigerian word for God. That was a revelation to me. I asked him about it and he confirmed that in his native language the word for God is Allah. So, it is not restricted to Islam. So, if the Qua'an was translated into English where it says Allah the translation would be God. 

I completely agree that Mohammed was not a true prophet. I agree their understanding of Christ, though they consider him the 2nd greatest prophet, is not correct. I also know that not all Muslims are radical, fundamentalists bent on destroying all who do not agree with them. Just like some Christians, those radicals have given a black eye to all.

This is an excellent book on the three faiths, the 'people of the book.'

Islam does not worship Yahweh, but a satanic counterfeit!

[Bouncing Bill]

6 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Those such as Isis though are the closest to what their prophet Muhhamed taught, as Islam is commissioned by Allah to take over the world, and that is to be done by extreme force of need be!

Islam is a Satanic counterfeit of the the messiah and real Gospel, as the angel that appeared to Muhhammed and gave to him those revelations was no doubt same one that appeared to adam and Eve and to others such as Joseph Smith!

Islam does not worship Yahweh, but a satanic counterfeit!

I do not feel that I am defending Islam, but I do think there is a lot of misinformation being given. I have read too much history, listened to too many  lectures, both religious and secular, as well as becoming friends with Arab-Christians from the Mid-East, to buy into the popular beliefs of our day. My personal belief is that if the British and French had followed up on their promises to the Arabs during World War I we would have a much more peaceful world. But, they reigned on those promises and that led to the founding of radical groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt that began in the 1920's. Since that time no Arab government has trusted the promises of any Western national government. World War I never really ended. The fighting ended, but the decisions made after the war led to Hitler, the Communist Soviet Union, and radical Muslim groups. 

The best witness we have for Christ is love not distrust and hate. A good example of this was the response of the International Baptist Theological Seminary when during a conflict many people were left homeless. The seminary took in homeless women and children, many who were Muslim. They were treated well and reported their treatment to the mosque leadership. The leaders of the mosque came to them and said, tell us why you took the women in and treated them well. We have never seen Christians do this and we would not take Christians in. This opened a continuing peaceful dialogue between the two groups. If we are ever to influence Muslims to come to Christ we will have to do it through love, not hate. 

I do not believe ISIS is close to what Mohammed taught any more than the IRA in Ireland was close to what Jesus taught. Both would defend themselves by saying they were close to the the teachings of their religion. It all boils down to a person or groups interpretation of their scriptures. I believe there are a fair number of groups who call themselves Christian, but IMHO, they are simply Christian in name only and there are such groups who claim millions of members. I won't go into what I think these people are as it would open up too many 'rabbit tracks' that people would start down but that lead nowhere.

I have no problem with you description of the false prophets.

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Bouncing Bill

[Bouncing Bill]

Just now, Bouncing Bill said:

 

 

[DaChaser]

7 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I do not feel that I am defending Islam, but I do think there is a lot of misinformation being given. I have read too much history, listened to too many  lectures, both religious and secular, as well as becoming friends with Arab-Christians from the Mid-East, to buy into the popular beliefs of our day. My personal belief is that if the British and French had followed up on their promises to the Arabs during World War I we would have a much more peaceful world. But, they reigned on those promises and that led to the founding of radical groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt that began in the 1920's. Since that time no Arab government has trusted the promises of any Western national government. World War I never really ended. The fighting ended, but the decisions made after the war led to Hitler, the Communist Soviet Union, and radical Muslim groups. 

The best witness we have for Christ is love not distrust and hate. A good example of this was the response of the International Baptist Theological Seminary when during a conflict many people were left homeless. The seminary took in homeless women and children, many who were Muslim. They were treated well and reported their treatment to the mosque leadership. The leaders of the mosque came to them and said, tell us why you took the women in and treated them well. We have never seen Christians do this and we would not take Christians in. This opened a continuing peaceful dialogue between the two groups. If we are ever to influence Muslims to come to Christ we will have to do it through love, not hate. 

I do not believe ISIS is close to what Mohammed taught any more than the IRA in Ireland was close to what Jesus taught. Both would defend themselves by saying they were close to the the teachings of their religion. It all boils down to a person or groups interpretation of their scriptures. I believe there are a fair number of groups who call themselves Christian, but IMHO, they are simply Christian in name only and there are such groups who claim millions of members. I won't go into what I think these people are as it would open up too many 'rabbit tracks' that people would start down but that lead nowhere.

I have no problem with you description of the false prophets.

 

The prophet Muhhammed gave forth to the Muslims the Jihad, as they do practice the law of Abrogation, which means that all of the sayings and teachings from his later years after the exile take precedence over the earlier sayings and teachings, so yes, ISIS is now practicing what the prophet of Islam told them that Allah commands them to be doing!

[Bouncing Bill]

36 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

The prophet Muhhammed gave forth to the Muslims the Jihad, as they do practice the law of Abrogation, which means that all of the sayings and teachings from his later years after the exile take precedence over the earlier sayings and teachings, so yes, ISIS is now practicing what the prophet of Islam told them that Allah commands them to be doing!

I forgot to tell you about a Jordanian Muslim lady I met. She had just finished a masters degree in Management of Conflict Resolution at the Eastern Mennonite University in Harrisonburg, VA. She said that the English Qur'an that is distributed in the West is a Saudi translation. She had never seen one before coming to the USA. She said, "I was horrified when I read it. It is a very bad translation and I can see why people here hate us. It puts words in the Profits mouth that are not in the Arabic version. If I thought the followers of the Profit were believers as shown in the English translation, I would hate them also." She was returning to Jordan to work with a Muslim agency trying to promote peace between Israel and Jordan.

It is a shame we are limited by language and cannot read the original. Just like, at least for me, it is not good that I do not understand Greek or Hebrew. I have to depend on translations and I know that meaning is lost in any translation. There are concepts in one language that are spoken with one word but that cannot be translated into another language with one word. Meaning is lost. The three Greek words in the Bible, Eros, Agape, and Philia, when translated into English must be written as "love." But much is lost as those three loves are different. The prime example of this is when Christ asked Peter three times if he [Peter] loved him. In English it is always one word, 'love'. But in Greek this is not true. The first two times Christ uses the word, Agape and Peter replies Philia. Finally, the third time Christ changes the word and asks if he [Peter] Philias him. Big difference and Peter never uses the deeper, most pure word agape.

By the way, do you agree with me that the only way to win Muslims to Christ is through love?

[NotAshamed]

Interesting video.  I did watch it all the way through.

To answer the topic in the thread title: Yes, I do think religions can exist side-by-side.  After all, Christianity existed alongside other religions from its start, although it suffered persecution pretty much from the start, too.

One question I would have is if the other religions would let Christianity exist alongside them.  I realize that is the premise of the video.  But, the unknown is when it comes to evangelism.  That is part of our faith, too...not just praying in our churches, which is what the video emphasizes.  

That is where the rubber hits the road and is a point not addressed in the video.  What happens if the Christians (or other religions) try to lead others to their faith?  Will they still be tolerated?

I’m not trying to insinuate one way or the other, but the question entered my mind as I watched the video.

Edited August 8, 2020 by NotAshamed

[Jim_Alaska]

Bill, my previous post to you about zeroing in on Islam and defending it on our board was not a suggestion, it was a request from a moderator that you have now chosen to disregard with your last two posts. Understand that I am not the only one that dislikes what you posted, I have had complaints from other board members also.

If your posts that completely disregarded my request were accidents I could overlook them, but they were no accidents, they were intentional. For this cause I a awarding you two penaty points, please note that our board rules state that three penalty point is sufficient to ban a member. Please take this to heart, I do not like banning anyone.

[Bouncing Bill]

5 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bill, my previous post to you about zeroing in on Islam and defending it on our board was not a suggestion, it was a request from a moderator that you have now chosen to disregard with your last two posts. Understand that I am not the only one that dislikes what you posted, I have had complaints from other board members also.

If your posts that completely disregarded my request were accidents I could overlook them, but they were no accidents, they were intentional. For this cause I a awarding you two penaty points, please note that our board rules state that three penalty point is sufficient to ban a member. Please take this to heart, I do not like banning anyone.

I guess at 80 I am a generation or two or three or four older than most on the Board. Growing up a Baptist I was encouraged to be open in discussions and to defend the right of others to their opinion. We were taught out Baptist heritage when we, as Baptist, were jailed and silenced by others. We were taught this should never happen to anyone again.I am sorry our society has lost the art of discussion and conversation.  This is sad. 

May all on the board be blessed in all they do. 

Adieu.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Bouncing Bill