The prison, the judgment, and the pains of death

[Konstantin]

"

The whole Christian world believes that the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, and His burial, and His resurrection in the year 34 give victory over death. But these are the beginnings of the way of the Lord. It is naive to think that victory can be obtained without a battle.

To think so is to absolutely not understand the way of the Lord. There is no victory without a battle. There is an important period of time, which, despite its significance in our justification, remains unnoticed in the community of Christians. In this regard, the future giving of Christ for our sins and His “resurrection” for our justification remains unnoticed (Rom.4:25). In the book of Daniel, this time is marked by the last 70th week (Dan. 9:27). This is the time when ALL AUTHORITY will be given to the devil and his angels for seven years.

In the four books of the Gospel, the Scripture shows us the FUTURE WAY of Jesus Christ, starting from the meal in the tabernacle of heaven and ending with His last breath “out of the belly of hell” (Jon.2:2). Because death with its bars should be to forever block Him ...

“Who in the dayes of his flesh, when hee WILL OFFER UP prayers and supplications, with strong crying and teares, vnto him that was able to saue him from death, and WILL BE HEARD in that he feared.”

http://lordway.ru/English/put_gospoden/temnica.htm 

[Ukulelemike]

Not even sure of what you are trying to say here. 

[Konstantin]

29 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

Not even sure of what you are trying to say here. 

"¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him, he hath put him to griefe: when thou shalt make his soule an offring for sinne, he shall see his seede, hee shall prolong his daies, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand" (Is.53:10)

Can you explain why the word "soul" is in this verse?

Can you explain why the word "body" or "flesh" or "life" does not stand in place of this word?

[SureWord]

On 6/23/2020 at 11:00 AM, Ukulelemike said:

Not even sure of what you are trying to say here. 

I think he's a hyperdispensationalist. Everything in the bible is relegated to the future.

[SureWord]

On 6/23/2020 at 11:35 AM, Konstantin said:

"¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him, he hath put him to griefe: when thou shalt make his soule an offring for sinne, he shall see his seede, hee shall prolong his daies, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand" (Is.53:10)

Can you explain why the word "soul" is in this verse?

Can you explain why the word "body" or "flesh" or "life" does not stand in place of this word?

Um...because his soul was sinless and that's what was needed to save our?

[Konstantin]

1 hour ago, SureWord said:

Um...because his soul was sinless and that's what was needed to save our?

And other question?

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

Even though He was totally without sin, including  "sinless soul",   the "sinless soul" was not the payment for our sin,  nor of the world, nor would not have been sufficient,  not even close (and not the Plan),  to redeem anyone from their sin.

 

Clearly from everything,  from all Scripture,  from all the Plan and Purpose of Salvation in Christ Jesus,   His Blood was the payment,   required for our Atonement,   and not realized by any other religion.

[SureWord]

4 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Even though He was totally without sin, including  "sinless soul",   the "sinless soul" was not the payment for our sin,  nor of the world, nor would not have been sufficient,  not even close (and not the Plan),  to redeem anyone from their sin.

 

Clearly from everything,  from all Scripture,  from all the Plan and Purpose of Salvation in Christ Jesus,   His Blood was the payment,   required for our Atonement,   and not realized by any other religion.

I agree that redemption was in the blood but his soul would have been kept in hell if it wasn't sinless. No sinless soul, no resurrection.

[Konstantin]

8 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Even though He was totally without sin, including  "sinless soul",   the "sinless soul" was not the payment for our sin,...

Scripture says the opposite of it:

"¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him, he hath put him to griefe: when thou shalt make his soule an offring for sinne, he shall see his seede, hee shall prolong his daies, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand." (Is.53:10)

[Jim_Alaska]

It says His soul was made an "offering for sin".  He and His soul were sinless. So, His soul was made an offering for my sin, this is the substitutionary death and offering that He made for me.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Substitutionary death.....His death as payment for my sin.

1 Peter 1:19 (KJV) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

[Konstantin]

2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

It says His soul was made an "offering for sin".  He and His soul were sinless. So, His soul was made an offering for my sin, this is the substitutionary death and offering that He made for me.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Substitutionary death.....His death as payment for my sin.

1 Peter 1:19 (KJV) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

"...To justify “many”, “the trauell of his soule” is necessary. He must put His soul to death.

“when thou shalt make his soule an offring for sinne, he shall see his seede, hee shall prolong his daies, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand” (Is.53:10).

“He shall see of the trauell of his soule, and shalbe satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous seruant iustifie many: for hee shall beare their iniquities” (Is.53:11).

The death of His body on the cross of Calvary is not an offering for sin. Only His soul can be an offering for sin. In order for God's justice to be satisfied, the decision of God the Father for trespass against Him must be fair. And Christ will be ready to accept the worst punishment, although His soul resists: “take away this cup from me.” In other words: “Do not leave, do not reject Me.” It is not in vain that the Scripture figuratively calls Christ and the Church of the firstborn the king’s prisoners, and the heavenly Tabernacle -- the prison (Gen.39:20).

He was not afraid of the idea of giving his life that he might “take it againe”, but to feel condemned to death, and then to be given into the hands of the devil and his angels, actually to perdition, to see how “gates of death” are opening before thou (Job.38:17) and the pit shuts “her mouth vpon” thou (Ps. 69:15), this is really “the trauell of his soule” (Is.53:11).

When “their hour” comes, “the whole multitude of them” will rise upon Christ (Luke 23:1), these are the devil and his angels, prophetically: “a great multitude with swords, and staues” (Mark.14:43). Christ will say: “Leave the firstborns, do not destroy the believers who have remained on the earth, take Me.”

“If therefore ye seeke me, let these goe their way:

That the saying might be fulfilled which he spake, Of them which thou gauest me, haue I lostnone” (John.18:8,9)...."

[Martyr_4_FutureJoy]

8 hours ago, Konstantin said:

Scripture says the opposite of it:

"¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him, he hath put him to griefe: when thou shalt make his soule an offring for sinne, he shall see his seede, hee shall prolong his daies, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand." (Is.53:10)

1 John 1:7   

but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Blood-Of-Jesus

[Jim_Alaska]

6 hours ago, Konstantin said:

When “their hour” comes, “the whole multitude of them” will rise upon Christ (Luke 23:1), these are the devil and his angels, prophetically: “a great multitude with swords, and staues” (Mark.14:43). Christ will say: “Leave the firstborns, do not destroy the believers who have remained on the earth, take Me.”

I am  only addressing this small part of your reply. For me there is simply too much Scripture that you post taken out of context, or just plain "made up interpretation". You just seem to make up your own interpretation of Scripture to suit your argument, even when what you post has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

The Scripture you posted above has nothing to do with the Devil and his angels at all. Quoting the Scripture as it was written we see that it says this: "Mark 14:43 (KJV) And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders."

So, reading the Scripture for what it actually says, we see that this is speaking of Judas and the chief priests, scribes and elders making up the great multitude. It does not say the Devil or his angels, nor does it say anything about the last sentence you put in quotation marks. This is all your own "made up theology".

I think you would be well served to get away from that website that you continually link to and get some serious, well grounded Bible teaching. It is easy to see why you are not an Independent Baptist, or any other kind of Baptist and do not claim any denomination and will not submit to any authority outside of your own.

I know of no genuine New Testament Church that would put up with the sort of reasoning and nonsensical Scripture interpretation such as you have continually presented here at Online Baptist.

Here is a good Scripture to start with for serious Bible study: 2 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

So then, Scripture itself condemns your method of interpretation and calls it a "private interpretation".

[Jim_Alaska]

Konstantin,

Because you have not seen fit to properly introduce yourself as is customarily polite on most message forums, I would like to ask that you please take the time to introduce yourself in our "introduction" forum.

A customary introduction allows other members of the forum to get to know you and properly welcome you to our small group. Here at Online Baptist part of a proper introduction will include a bit of your history, a statement of your salvation experience and any other things that help us get to know who you are and what you believe.

This is especially important when someone such as yourself bursts on the scene as a full blown teacher with no introduction. Although we here at Online Baptist are not a church, this would be the equivalent of visiting a church for the first time and expecting full admittance to the pulpit to teach anything you like.

I am confident that everyone here would like to properly welcome you and especially hear a testimony of your salvation experience. Most Christians are happy to have an opportunity to relate how they were saved.

[NotAshamed]

Aww...man...here we go!

Konstatin, this whole thing about Jesus’s soul needing to suffer for our salvation sounds an awfully lot like the “Jesus died spiritually” teaching I encountered when I was in the Word Of Faith/Charismatic movement back in the ‘80s and very early ‘90s.  This teaching is really what started to convince me that I was in the wrong place.  Through a series of events, the Lord removed me from it.  A lot of it derives from the teachings of E.W. Kenyon.

Fundamentally, the teaching misunderstands the atonement.  I’ll go out on a limb and say that understanding the Person of Jesus and the nature of the Atonement are the two most critical keys in discerning false teaching from correct teaching.

So, what is wrong with how you’re interpreting Isaiah 53:10?  The Bible tells us that, for purposes of atonement, the life is in the blood and it is BLOOD that makes atonement:

Leviticus 17:11,

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the bloodthat maketh an atonement for the soul.

The shedding of Jesus’s blood WAS the very offering of Jesus’s soul for sin (Is 53:10) which you are perceiving as a separate event.  It is one and the same with the shedding of His blood.  Where you differ from the Word of Faith error is that you seem to suggest this offering of Jesus’s soul is a future event to be accomplished during the 70th Week of Daniel.  The Word of Faith churches hold that Jesus had to die spiritually for three days.  He had to be resurrected both physically and spiritually.

The crux of the idea, as taught to us in the Word of Faith, was that Jesus had to die spiritually because blood, which is physical, cannot atone for sin, which is spiritual.  There are two fundamental errors with this.  First, it treats God as if He is somehow bound to some framework which governs how He can act, i.e., a strict physical to physical, and spiritual to spiritual correlation.  It ignores that God determines what and how His wrath against sin will be satisfied.  Second, it ignores that the spiritual aspect of the atonement was already addressed in the book of Hebrews:

Hebrews 9:12-14:

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Thus, the spiritual aspect of Jesus’s sacrifice is not satisfied by some contrived method that demands His spiritual suffering in hell or in some future event; it is satisfied by the fact that He is the Christ, the very Son of God - the Second Person of the Trinity, who offered Himself through the Spirit to God.

Either way, any notion that there is ANY additional requirement to the Atonement is absolutely false.